ETM, ITM and what we're missing in this debate

[Brian Peters]

i quite painfully obviously was not referencing fiddle styles, but concertina styles, as i suspect you understood very well the first time around

It wasn't obvious to me, painfully or otherwise, that the reference was to concertina styles, as opposed to English traditional music as a whole.

 

OK, let's stick to concertinas, then. In the reference to the "morris, marching-band english thing" you appear to be suggesting the English style of playing anglo is epitomised by marching bands. Which ones? The Liverpool Orange Order bands? The Salvation Army? Is there one single style of anglo playing for morris - have you compared William Kimber's playing with the musicans of Manley Morris, for instance? How many English players of the Anglo have you actually listened to?

 

the poster who favors quoting out of context and flinging rude adjectives around

Since we're into legalistic nitpicking, I should point out that I directed the adjective 'ignorant' towards the remark, not the remarker.

 

in terms of the relative dementia of sartorial choices for marching bands versus morris, TO ME....morris leads by a nose. if it weren't for the bass chording, i might be tempted by the outfits....

Ah, I see, morris dancers wear silly clothes as well as dancing to crap music. Shouldn't this comment have been decorated with a smirking yellow sphere? Oh no, of course it contains the universal caveat, TO ME. No offence there, then.

 

Over the years I've met a lot of fine players of concertinas and other instruments, from Ireland, Scotland, Europe and North America, many of whom were very passionate and proud to represent their regional traditions. All of them are usually very happy to meet someone who plays the instrument in a different style to theirs, and Irish and Scots musicians in particular are usually delighted to find an Englishman as committed to English music as they are to their own. None of them ever attempted to denigrate other people's traditions, or prove the superiority of their own by means of lazy and inaccurate stereotyping.

[Chris Timson]

Hear hear.

 

Chris

[Steve_freereeder]

Spot on, Brian.

I agree 100% with your posts.

[michael sam wild]

I like playing Irish music (among other kinds), to the best of my ability. I neither play nor care about IT-uM.

I also find this term ETM horribly grating. If you ask me what I play in sessions I'll say English music or English dance music. I'd never say ETM because it's, well, just ghastly.

 

Chris

 

PS it's also dreadful, hideously offputting and, well, just ghastly.

 

 

BTW, IMHO, FWIW, I only use ITM or ETM because they are an alternative to 'Folk' which has become another genre which can be modern as long as it's played on a jumbo acoustic guitar. File under fake. LOL, ROFL

Edited December 11, 2009 by michael sam wild

[Ralph Jordan]

A few years ago, I was booked at a UK fest, and having time to kill, was checking out a couple of Duets on (I think) the Hobgoblin stall. when this Irish chappy started playing some of the Anglos on sale.

We got chatting for 20 minutes or so, each of us enjoying what the other was doing, and parted company with a smile and a handshake. Lovely bloke I thought.

It was later on in the concert that I realised that it was Noel Hill. (I'd never even seen a pic of him before!)

This just goes to show that musicians don't bother about systems, styles, whatever. They just appreciate another muso when they meet one. Maybe this will diffuse the current arguments on this thread.

 

I have also had the pleasure of playing with Mr Peters, and all blushes aside, a great player indeed. In a variety of styles. (Hello Brian!)

 

As others have said. English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French....Does it really matter? Just get out there and play the damn stuff!!

Edited December 11, 2009 by Ralph Jordan

[michael sam wild]

Peter

 

I'd be interested to know whether the older Irish players who played in the home keys of C/G etc used an more chords than those who use the newer 'system' which gets discussed here.. i am just beginning to experiment more with tunes in C on my C/G box, having focussed on D and cross row G etc up to now as I came later to the Anglo from button box and wanted to play with others in our local sessions where more 'standard' keys prevail when playing Irish, Scottish and English tunes.

As the G/D Anglo doesn't seem to have been too common in Ireland it's difficult to know how that would have been used.

 

From what I have heard, some older players of the (German) concertina did play harmony notes and octaves to fill out the sound of the instrument.

 

Again: the German concertinas were not C/G

[links to some recordings removed]

 

 

Do you mean not all were C/G? ( My highlighting of Peter's statement -)Mike

Edited December 11, 2009 by michael sam wild

[LDT]

For me genre or band or performer is not what I go by. I take every tune/song at face value. I like a strong riff or a lot of groove in the music and you can find that in any genre if you look hard enough. I have a very eclectic cd collection.

[michael sam wild]

For me genre or band or performer is not what I go by. I take every tune/song at face value. I like a strong riff or a lot of groove in the music and you can find that in any genre if you look hard enough. I have a very eclectic cd collection.

 

me too

 

 

 

Me too. I listen to all sorts but play only in a narrower style That's what i like best and it fits with my mates and the local situation. I know the way i play is influenced by these other genres but I try to stay within a framwork. I have played a lot for dancers and that necessitaes lift, rhythm and speed over excess ornamentation.

 

 

Having said all this If I were back in West Africa where I worked in the late 60s I'd be jamming with the locals . My biggest praise was that I danced like a Timni, their local tribe. I think it was complimentary. Anyway I just thought I was doing a Mick Jagger! Maybe they said 'Chimney' - upright and rigid.

 

They loved Guinness which was brewed locally and went mad for jigs and reels on the whistle and mouthorgan. So music travels.

[Chris Timson]

As others have said. English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French....Does it really matter? Just get out there and play the damn stuff!!

Hear hear²

 

Chris

[Larry Stout]

 

Having said all this If I were back in West Africa where I worked in the late 60s I'd be jamming with the locals . My biggest praise was that I danced like a Timni, their local tribe. I think it was complimentary. Anyway I just thought I was doing a Mick Jagger! Maybe they said 'Chimney' - upright and rigid.

 

They loved Guinness which was brewed locally and went mad for jigs and reels on the whistle and mouthorgan. So music travels.

 

I had to laugh-- this reminded me of the time that my wife and I broke into a rant step to a lively piece of Afro-pop at our social dance class. We were supposed to be doing salsa, a rhythm I had trouble getting. Our rant was certainly more upright and rigid than the hip swivels we were supposed to be doing.

 

To bring this back to concertinas, we very much enjoyed waltzing in that class to Josephins Dopvals from the CD "Grass Roots" by the Old Sod Band-- which has an English concertina as one of the lead instruments.

 

(Edited to credit Josephins Dopvals to the right band.)

Edited December 14, 2009 by Larry Stout

[Henrik Müller]

Hear hear³

 

/Henrik

[Henrik Müller]

As others have said. English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French....Does it really matter? Just get out there and play the damn stuff!!

Hear hear²

 

Chris

Hear hear³/Henrik

Blast! I messed it up...

Edited December 14, 2009 by Henrik Müller