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Beginner; How Much To Spend?


Yote

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How about one or two of each :blink: :(

 

Yeah, is starting to look like if I had the money for it that would be the way to go...

 

I am now fighting between which style/sound I prefer, and which fingering system would be the easiest for me to figure out. The English may be the easiest for me as the pattern is pretty straight forward. I bet the Anglo concertina makes sense to someone who knows their keys and such music theory, but as I am new to that, it looks almost random to me, and would be straight hard memorization rather than patterning. The Duet seems like it would take a while to figure out, but the patterning is fairly understandable. Plus, the links you sent me is of a fellow I have seen before on youtube, so makes it appealing on that as well. ARGH!

 

Asked the wife which style she would prefer, and after listening she said she liked each for their own reasons. Not much help there.

 

I understand that each can be robust in the hands of a skilled player, so makes it harder to define a specific style for one or the other. I might just write each type on a piece of paper, stick them on a wall, toss on a blindfold and throw a dart.

 

edit @ Yankee: I agree, authenticity doesn't really matter as long as it sounds fine and is fun.

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I bet the Anglo concertina makes sense to someone who knows their keys and such music theory, but as I am new to that, it looks almost random to me, and would be straight hard memorization rather than patterning. The Duet seems like it would take a while to figure out, but the patterning is fairly understandable.

 

Actually, the Anglo is designed to be played easily without having to worry about theory. A lot of chords and harmonies just fall under your fingers. You really can't judge a system by looking at a fingering chart and not playing it.

 

I'm mostly drawn towards full arrangements with self-accompaniment (as you can probably tell from my Whistling Rufus clip), which is why I switched to duet. You can do ornamented melody with occasional chords and bass with any system. Anglo limits your keys a bit more, but tends to sound more physical and bouncy. Duet takes the most work to fully exploit, I think, but that's just because it has more possibilities.

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....I'm mostly drawn towards full arrangements with self-accompaniment (as you can probably tell from my Whistling Rufus clip)....

 

*blank stare* That is you? That clip of you playing Whistling Rufus is what got my interest into the concertina in the first place! Love your playing and all that. I am liking the idea of a "little piano" as I would say without having to go with an accordion (as in large range of notes and such), so it seems the duet may be for me, rather than the Anglo. Thanks for the input!

 

-Yote

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....I'm mostly drawn towards full arrangements with self-accompaniment (as you can probably tell from my Whistling Rufus clip)....

 

*blank stare* That is you? That clip of you playing Whistling Rufus is what got my interest into the concertina in the first place! Love your playing and all that. I am liking the idea of a "little piano" as I would say without having to go with an accordion (as in large range of notes and such), so it seems the duet may be for me, rather than the Anglo. Thanks for the input!

 

-Yote

 

An accordion may not necessarily have larger range of buttons, only larger buttons. That left side of an accordion with many small buttons is not a melody side. Those gazillion of buttons are actually very easy to learn. A Duet Concertina can come in many incarnations. A Bandoneon, for example, is one type. Anglo is a version of a Duet, by the way. For a Duet to become "little piano" it must be very big Concertina. Small cute Duets are not very worthy instruments. If you decide on a Duet, save up. I had smallish Crane Duet, liked the layout very much, but it was too small and too cheap. Sold it. Anglo is very easy to play, if you stay with european folk music. English really benefits from learning to read music. And it's uncomfortable to hold in the beginning.

I agree with you, judging by your posts middle size Crane would be the best for you.

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I think I will have to find the Bay Area meet-up and just get opinions and info there. Anglo is easy to learn but limited due to the keys but not limited... I just need to hear them more I figure to tell what works best for me. I made a separate post as I had lost the message, but who got in contact with me about the Bay Area meeting on 11/28?

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That was me. E-mail me for details: hrshsand "at" earthlink.net.

 

Daniel

 

I think I will have to find the Bay Area meet-up and just get opinions and info there. Anglo is easy to learn but limited due to the keys but not limited... I just need to hear them more I figure to tell what works best for me. I made a separate post as I had lost the message, but who got in contact with me about the Bay Area meeting on 11/28?

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You might also consider a Hayden Duet. I mainly play Anglo but I've recently been enjoying learning Hayden on an Elise (from the same line as the Rochelle Anglo and Jackie English).

 

Thanks for the really informative email Leo! I looked through a good amount of that, got some good info.

 

As I play the bagpipes and that is very restricted in the style it can play, I may be leaning more towards the English as it seems more robust in the styles capable. Being an engineer and thus terribly stuck in patterns, I think I can learn how to read music.

 

Besides, the idea of being able to play ragtime on a concertina is kinda charming as it were, and seems the English may be more capable of such.

 

I got meself some thinking to do.

 

-Yote

I definitely second the motion of the Hayden Duet -- I've been playing one for 5 years, and still love it. And yes, I play ragtime, and marches, nd folk songs, plus the usual contradance trad tunes.

 

Duets let you accompany yourself with chords and bass, and also tend to have the chromatic "black" notes that you need so often in rag and jazz.

 

BTW, good arguments can be made for the two older Duet systems, Maccann and Crane, so you don't have to go with a Haayden, tho it is the easiest to learn.

--Mike K.

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You might also consider a Hayden Duet. I mainly play Anglo but I've recently been enjoying learning Hayden on an Elise (from the same line as the Rochelle Anglo and Jackie English).

 

Thanks for the really informative email Leo! I looked through a good amount of that, got some good info.

 

As I play the bagpipes and that is very restricted in the style it can play, I may be leaning more towards the English as it seems more robust in the styles capable. Being an engineer and thus terribly stuck in patterns, I think I can learn how to read music.

 

Besides, the idea of being able to play ragtime on a concertina is kinda charming as it were, and seems the English may be more capable of such.

 

I got meself some thinking to do.

 

-Yote

 

 

I definitely second the motion of the Hayden Duet -- I've been playing one for 5 years, and still love it. And yes, I play ragtime, and marches, nd folk songs, plus the usual contradance trad tunes.

 

Duets let you accompany yourself with chords and bass, and also tend to have the chromatic "black" notes that you need so often in rag and jazz.

 

BTW, good arguments can be made for the two older Duet systems, Maccann and Crane, so you don't have to go with a Hayden, tho it is the easiest to learn.

--Mike K.

The other advantage of a Hayden is that an entry-level instrument (the Elise) is available, which isn't true of a Maccann or Crane. On the other hand, there's no good mid-priced Hayden -- unless you want to consider a Stagi for around $1000, the next step up is a Tedrow for $4750. Restored 48-button Lachenal Cranes seem to usually sell for $1000 to $1500.

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BTW, good arguments can be made for the two older Duet systems, Maccann and Crane, so you don't have to go with a Haayden, tho it is the easiest to learn.

Doesn't that depend on the individual? And on what one is trying to learn to do with it?

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English...it's uncomfortable to hold in the beginning.

 

That's the second thing m3838 and I have found agreement on! :D

 

Finally, I've removed the "pinky stirrups" from my english -- making it now viable for a fiddler ... no longer does it sit in its case unplayed.

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English...it's uncomfortable to hold in the beginning.

Never was for me.

Not in the beginning... and not later, either. Not even with heavy playing.

That's the second thing m3838 and I have found agreement on! :D

 

Finally, I've removed the "pinky stirrups" from my english -- making it now viable for a fiddler ... no longer does it sit in its case unplayed.

Interesting characterization: "pinky stirrups".

 

Makes me wonder if you were trying to use them to support your little fingers, rather than using those fingers to help support and control the instrument, as I do.

 

By pressing gently inward and upward on the finger plates and gently downward with the tips of my thumbs in the thumb loops, I am essentially gripping the ends of the concertina. Nevertheless, my little fingers aren't rigidly held in a fixed position; they can slide forward and back under the plate, and occasionally I'll take one out entirely, either to press a button or to brace against some other point on the end. For me, the holding and control of the instrument is a constantly shifting dynamic process, though many of the shifts are quite small. I suspect that's one reason why I don't experience the pain that some others report.

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So it seems I shouldn't really ask the question "which is best for this?", as I will be thrown in the middle of it all. Seems I just need to listen to all the types, talk to people in person, and so forth. I might end up still going with the Anglo, as it may be the more economical option for me.

 

-Yote

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The other advantage of a Hayden is that an entry-level instrument (the Elise) is available, which isn't true of a Maccann or Crane. On the other hand, there's no good mid-priced Hayden -- unless you want to consider a Stagi for around $1000, the next step up is a Tedrow for $4750. Restored 48-button Lachenal Cranes seem to usually sell for $1000 to $1500.

Whereby a 48-key Crane is not an entry-level instrument, but a good working instrument that will take anyone but the virtuoso wherever they want to go. An entry-level Crane would be the 35-key model, one of which I was offered recently (restored) for in the region of GBP 550.

 

Cheers,

John

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English...it's uncomfortable to hold in the beginning.

Never was for me.

Not in the beginning... and not later, either. Not even with heavy playing.

That's the second thing m3838 and I have found agreement on! :D

 

Finally, I've removed the "pinky stirrups" from my english -- making it now viable for a fiddler ... no longer does it sit in its case unplayed.

Interesting characterization: "pinky stirrups".

 

Makes me wonder if you were trying to use them to support your little fingers, rather than using those fingers to help support and control the instrument, as I do.

 

The latter. But as a long-time player of stringed instruments, I've a strong reliance on using my pinkies for playng notes; I could never get on with having 25% of my possible noting elements immobilized. I feel quite liberated now...it's enabling me to finally develop the romance with english that I always desired.

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So it seems I shouldn't really ask the question "which is best for this?", as I will be thrown in the middle of it all. Seems I just need to listen to all the types, talk to people in person, and so forth. I might end up still going with the Anglo, as it may be the more economical option for me.

 

-Yote

 

Simple solution - go up to Oakland and visit Smythe's Accordion Center. It's a good place to try out the various types of concertina. There's always somebody to talk to and lots of cool stuff too. The place is so enthusing, I'm even considering an accordion purchase now....

I bought my Rochelle there. It was worth the 280 mile drive - saved me a lot of dithering about considering the same points you've put up throughout this thread...

I had no experience with concertinas prior to my visit, I'd never even seen one in the wild; they're extinct this far north. But after trying the models in the shop, I quickly made up my mind. Since I couldn't afford a Tedrow or an Edgley, the choices got really simple really fast...

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The "just go in there" sounds like a good option, though I am not at the point right now where I am looking to buy. I figure I will go to the meet-up happening on the 28th around my area and listen in.

 

Also, I looked up the Elise on ButtonBox and it is priced the same as the Rochelle. Only drawback would be the lower count in buttons over a different duet, but would work well to learn on and to find out if the concertina is for me. I figure after the meeting if it looks like something I am interested in then I will looking into renting such an instrument.

 

-Yote

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Oh my...I'm such a happy camper with EC now! I've been desiring to play EC for several years, but was never comfortable with it. Albeit, I play with improper form (after removing the finger "rests"--using my knee as a brace rather than a just support...but it's allowing me to finally enjoy happiness :rolleyes:. I've been playing EC nearly every day for the past several weeks. I haven't enjoyed concertina this much since becoming smitten with my first anglo! I'd spring for a nice EC, such as yours Rod, if I had any money..

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