Accompanying Contra Dance Fiddlers -- Thoughts?

[Daddy John]

I noticed a thread dealing with tempos for dances. I have a related question regarding methodology. I play the Anglo concertina for Contra Dances in America. Love the music. Love to watch the dancers perform to our music.

 

Piano is common to Contra Dances but they never play lead. They play accompaniment "block chords" and base note progressions and support the fiddlers. Have any of you tried this approach with a concertina? In other words, do you play full or partial (two-note chords) with a boom-chuck base note to chord approach, as opposed to the melody line?

 

If so, can you give me some tips on progressions effective for dance? Most are in G, D or A major and the relative minors.

 

Daddy John

[Larry Stout]

I play English Concertina and usually play for ECD. I have, on a very few occasions, done a bit of backup instead of lead. I tend to use chords (triads) on the back beat (so the chuck rather than the boom). Massed drone chords also work since a concertina can add a pulse to a sustained chord in a way that a piano cannot.

 

That said-- either Jody Kruskal or Rachel Hall would be much better qualified to answer your question.

[Jody Kruskal]

Hi Larry and Daddy John,

 

I have played Anglo at contra dances for years. The concertina could play solo for a dance or in any combination of instruments. The contra tradition is very flexible. That said, the core instruments are fiddle and piano. Adding a concertina to that duet or a larger band situation is great in that the concertina can both play melody and accompaniment as well as harmony, rhythm, long chords and horn section riffs at will. The pianists I work with all play lead on occasion and even the bass player might take the melody sometimes.

 

What you say is correct for the most part though and concertina is really no replacement for a piano. I often play piano-like stuff but the piano has a delightful attack and lower bass notes so I don't think that I could replace the piano with much success for a whole dance. Still, if there were none there, it would suffice, and sometimes we have the piano drop out for effect and I play the piano part with the fiddles on melody for one time through before the piano comes roaring back in.

 

This reminds me of a dance last year in Lenox MA with a trio, where the keyboard player (nameless) brought a rather cheesy electric instrument to play. There was some problem with a connection in his rig and the sound was totally distorted and horrible. We struggled with the situation for a while then gave up. He tried playing mandolin with the fiddle player and me doing the piano part but it really didn't work too well. As a last resort we dragged out a dusty old upright that was in the hall and even though it was dreadfully out of tune and missing some notes it worked better than no piano at all and we rescued the dance from total meltdown.

 

I fear I have not really answered your question though. If you are asking about using substitute chords the way some pianists do then all I can tell you is that yes, the concertina can play those too and they are part of the contra sound. A full discussion would be hard without sitting in a room and actually playing.

[Jim Besser]

I noticed a thread dealing with tempos for dances. I have a related question regarding methodology. I play the Anglo concertina for Contra Dances in America. Love the music. Love to watch the dancers perform to our music.

 

Piano is common to Contra Dances but they never play lead. They play accompaniment "block chords" and base note progressions and support the fiddlers. Have any of you tried this approach with a concertina? In other words, do you play full or partial (two-note chords) with a boom-chuck base note to chord approach, as opposed to the melody line?

 

If so, can you give me some tips on progressions effective for dance? Most are in G, D or A major and the relative minors.

 

 

I started with contra dance bands as a guitar player, so doing chords and bass runs comes natural on concertina. I have done several dances where the pianist didn't show up, or was inaudible, and I tried to compensate by emphasizing chords and bass runs. I once did a dance with JUST a piano, and we traded leads a lot.

 

But...as Jody said, you can't really replicate the feel of a piano doing rhythm on a concertina. I've been working for years to emulate Jody's model. He's great at driving the band, but it seems to me he doesn't try to emulate a piano; he uses the unique attributes of the concertina to create a different sound that has a similar effect, in terms of drive and punch. Listen to his Grand Picnic CD and you'll hear what I mean.

 

I'm hoping Jody can provide a better description of his approach to rhythm playing for dances than i can.

 

The other issue is this: modern contra dance music is incorporating a lot of swing/jazz elements, driven by the piano. Most bands today use chord progressions few Anglos, certainly not 30 button ones, can replicate. 25 years ago, I could get along fine as a guitar player; today, these folks are using chords I never even heard of.

[Daddy John]

Hi Larry and Daddy John,

 

I have played Anglo at contra dances for years. The concertina could play solo for a dance or in any combination of instruments. The contra tradition is very flexible. That said, the core instruments are fiddle and piano. Adding a concertina to that duet or a larger band situation is great in that the concertina can both play melody and accompaniment as well as harmony, rhythm, long chords and horn section riffs at will. The pianists I work with all play lead on occasion and even the bass player might take the melody sometimes.

 

I fear I have not really answered your question though. If you are asking about using substitute chords the way some pianists do then all I can tell you is that yes, the concertina can play those too and they are part of the contra sound. A full discussion would be hard without sitting in a room and actually playing.

 

Jody. We met at a folk arts festival/concert you played in Texas 2-3 years ago. You played my 33 button Connor C-G (sold that) and remarked on the fact that it was loud. I am the old fellow with the face of an American icon (Santa Claus) and the body of a god (Buddha).

 

If you would Jody, please pick a common reel for Contra Dance in the key of D major and just tell me how you might approach chord and bass note work to support the fiddler or flute player. General terms only. I understand basic music theory.

 

Daddy John

[SqeezerGeezer]

Do those of you who play for contra dances favor a C/G or G/D instrument? Does one seem to fit better than the other?

[Jim Besser]

Do those of you who play for contra dances favor a C/G or G/D instrument? Does one seem to fit better than the other?

 

I bring both, but prefer G/D tuning for most tunes. Take the C/G along for the rare C and F tunes, and the inevitable Tam Lin and Julia Delaney!

 

My C/G is a much better instrument than my G/D - but amplified in a big hall, you'd never know it.

[Jody Kruskal]

Hey there Daddy and Geezer,

 

I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective.

 

It's G/D all the way with me. Well... 95% of the time. There are some tunes in G and D that work fine on the C/G for me and I usually bring the higher box to a dance or session as well as the G/D but often it stays in it's case. Sometimes we'll be actually playing tunes in the key of C, then it's essential, but other times it can be fun to switch boxes and suddenly sound all high and squeaky.

 

As for what to play on Anglo at a dance or for a fiddler, that's more complicated. Um Pa stuff mostly. Sometimes I emphisize the um and other times the pa. Cool rhythms, block chords, melody, harmony, the usual stuff. Playing silences are particularly good for letting the fiddle shine. Long ones, like a whole time thru the tune or lots of little short ones that let the fiddle peep out over and over again as it plays over short block chords or off beat chunks can be very effective.

 

The most common chord substitution might be for instance, instead of playing a phrase of a G tune G G D D you could play G Em Am D. This might be called 1625 . I usually take my cue for chords from the piano player and try to anticipate what they are going to do. Sometimes they also listen to me as well.

 

Sorry, words don't suffice. Below is an mp3 of me playing Swinging on a Gate. This tune is a chestnut that everyone uses for contra dances. It's in G. Here, I'm trying to play what I would do with a small band but there is no band to react to so I'm probably not getting it quite right. Still, listening to this should demonstrate how I play around and support the melody as well as state the melody myself.

 

Linked File: swinging on a gate.mp3 (2.33MB)

 

(Edited: I've removed this attachment and turned it into a link to my site)

Edited November 14, 2009 by Jody Kruskal

[Jody Kruskal]

Ah yes...

 

the inevitable Tam Lin and Julia Delaney!

 

Those are two that make me glad I brought along my C/G, just in case!

[Jody Kruskal]

Hey there Daddy and Geezer,

 

I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective.

 

It's G/D all the way with me. Well... 95% of the time. There are some tunes in G and D that work fine on the C/G for me and I usually bring the higher box to a dance or session as well as the G/D but often it stays in it's case. Sometimes we'll be actually playing tunes in the key of C, then it's essential, but other times it can be fun to switch boxes and suddenly sound all high and squeaky.

 

As for what to play on Anglo at a dance or for a fiddler, that's more complicated. Um Pa stuff mostly. Sometimes I emphisize the um and other times the pa. Cool rhythms, block chords, melody, harmony, the usual stuff. Playing silences are particularly good for letting the fiddle shine. Long ones, like a whole time thru the tune or lots of little short ones that let the fiddle peep out over and over again as it plays over short block chords or off beat chunks can be very effective.

 

The most common chord substitution might be for instance, instead of playing a phrase of a G tune G G D D you could play G Em Am D. This might be called 1625 . I usually take my cue for chords from the piano player and try to anticipate what they are going to do. Sometimes they also listen to me as well.

 

Sorry, words don't suffice. Below is an mp3 of me playing Swinging on a Gate. This tune is a chestnut that everyone uses for contra dances. It's in G. Here, I'm trying to play what I would do with a small band but there is no band to react to so I'm probably not getting it quite right. Still, listening to this should demonstrate how I play around and support the melody as well as state the melody myself.

 

 

Here is a link for the dots. Not exactly the way I play it but close enough.

[Jim Besser]

Ah yes...

 

the inevitable Tam Lin and Julia Delaney!

 

Those are two that make me glad I brought along my C/G, just in case!

 

 

And Pointe au Pic!

What drives me crazy are the medleys that require quick changes of instruments, with the attendant change in mics. Pointe au Pic to Hommage á Edmond Parizeau, a favorite around here, comes to mind.

[SqeezerGeezer]

Great example, Jody, thanks.