Playing for Dancing/ Listening

[Alan Day]

I have been involved in the past with playing strict tempo dance music for the International Folk Dancing Association. When in the recording studio a stopwatch was used to check the accuracy/ timing of our playing (Rosbif) to ensure that it was absolutely correct for teaching purposes.

When playing for dancing I closely watch the dancers to ensure that the music is being played at the correct speed. There are some dancers who will always request the dance to be faster or slower as a matter of taste. Sometimes in the same dance.

When playing for listening I play the tune with very little thought to anyone actually dancing to it,I play it for listening enjoyment (hopefully). I am quite comfortable to putting a number of tunes together in a set that may be different speeds again because I feel it adds a bit of variety to the music. There are some listeners however that prefer the strict tempo music that will enable them to jump off the settee and start dancing.

I am interested in your tastes on this subject.

Alan

[Kautilya]

I have been involved in the past with playing strict tempo dance music for the International Folk Dancing Association. When in the recording studio a stopwatch was used to check the accuracy/ timing of our playing (Rosbif) to ensure that it was absolutely correct for teaching purposes.

When playing for dancing I closely watch the dancers to ensure that the music is being played at the correct speed. There are some dancers who will always request the dance to be faster or slower as a matter of taste. Sometimes in the same dance.

When playing for listening I play the tune with very little thought to anyone actually dancing to it,I play it for listening enjoyment (hopefully). I am quite comfortable to putting a number of tunes together in a set that may be different speeds again because I feel it adds a bit of variety to the music. There are some listeners however that prefer the strict tempo music that will enable them to jump off the settee and start dancing.

I am interested in your tastes on this subject.

Alan

THE BELLS! THE BELLS! (with apologies to Quasimodo

 

I have seen someone very effectively using a palm held set of liittle twinkly bells and/or a tambourine to keep a group of c-players in time as the sound of the bells cuts through the c-music sound which can be diffuse (folk hitting notes at different speeds. The bell sound also seems to stimulate foot tapping... in time... and is a 'call' for dancers to risk the floor. oF course speeding up or slowing down the bells does same for players and dancers - the bells become a kind of anonymous unfrightening conductor..

[Jim Besser]

I am interested in your tastes on this subject.

Alan

 

I play almost entirely for dancers, and am somewhat unnerved when I play in a concert type situation, without dancers to interact with. Since my primary affiliation is a Cotswold team, I have learned to watch the dancers closely, adjust to what they're doing, respond to problems in the dance, etc. On a stage, without those cues, I always feel like something vital is missing.

[David S]

Watch the dancers has always been my rule, but for East Anglian step dancers I have found that it doesn't help to look at their feet and it seems better to just play on through and let them fit in with you. Anyone else found that?

 

David

[Alan Day]

Watch the dancers has always been my rule, but for East Anglian step dancers I have found that it doesn't help to look at their feet and it seems better to just play on through and let them fit in with you. Anyone else found that?

 

David

David, I was watching the dancing this year at Stowmarket and they seem to like dancing to standard jig speed. Three of the dancers turned up at the Frittenden Kent session where Mike and I were playing. Great fun to watch. They just get up to anything lively and as you say to no set speed of dance.

I must have a go at it

Al

[Steve Mansfield]

I play almost entirely for dancers, and am somewhat unnerved when I play in a concert type situation, without dancers to interact with. Since my primary affiliation is a Cotswold team, I have learned to watch the dancers closely, adjust to what they're doing, respond to problems in the dance, etc. On a stage, without those cues, I always feel like something vital is missing.

 

I also much prefer playing for dancing: for me it's the way that there's a sense of immediate feedback and a connectedness with the dancers that (in my experience anyway) you rarely get from playing to listeners in a concert setting. Good dance musicians often go un-noticed, but bad ones make their presence felt very quickly indeed!

[michael sam wild]

I used to play for Irish step dancers in competition and often was aked not to watch the dancers to avoid the risk of bias i.e. compensating for any weaknesses. The strict tempo made for a level playing field.

 

When playing in the street or indoors for step dancers from the tradition it was more give and take between the individual and the dancer. Having been a dancer of various styles helped.

 

When playing in a ceilidh band we always played to the best ( I mean the naturally rhythmic, not trained ) dancers and sometimes a bit ahead to bring them on.

 

At non folkie dances I found some great dancers who had never done it before, they just had the rhythm. I hated playing for those billed as 'dances for dancers' where they just wanted some music to walk about to.

 

For morris I was quite often playing after a few pints and sometimes accused of being too fast. But we got a lot of compliments from audiences.

 

 

As a young man I loved jiving to rock and roll and the band just did its thing, no strict tempo, and we adapted to that. The music drove it. my son is a DJ and says the music drives the dance.

 

I think it's only when we get 'strictly come dancing' or competitions that we get strict tempo.

 

 

I personally always favoured the Dionysian element of music and dance.

 

 

 

I remember when Pyewacket did a ceilidh at Sheffield University in the 80s. They stoppped dead in a Strip the Willow and the dancers ignored them and just clapped the time and carried on. It was apparent to me that the band meant it to stop there. They later slunk back on and tried to regain the lead but they got ignored! Mind they did get a good applause at the end of the evening but it showed how a dance can develop its own momentum and energy. Hats off tpo the band they engendered the state of ecstacy!

[Chris Timson]

Playing in sessions is diferent from playing for dancers, but I find that playing for North West morris as I do has a lot of effect on my playing in sessions. It slows it down and makes it more rhythmical. I have pontificated at length in this forum about my belief that a) the tunes sound better when played in a way that's not too far removed from the dances they are intended for, and the fact that most sessions in England contain a significant percentage of dance musicians has had a major effect on the way English music is played in sessions in general.

 

I've come to believe that dance tunes are functional in nature and sound best when played as for dance, but for a profoundly different point of view see Danny Chapman's postings. He believes that a tune is just a tune whatever its origin and the musician has the freedom to do what they like with it provided the end result sounds good. We've had a couple of good barnies over this point and I think we currently agree to disagree.

 

Chris

[Alan Day]

I used to play for Irish step dancers in competition and often was aked not to watch the dancers to avoid the risk of bias i.e. compensating for any weaknesses. The strict tempo made for a level playing field.

 

When playing in the street or indoors for step dancers from the tradition it was more give and take between the individual and the dancer. Having been a dancer of various styles helped.

 

When playing in a ceilidh band we always played to the best ( I mean the naturally rhythmic, not trained ) dancers and sometimes a bit ahead to bring them on.

 

At non folkie dances I found some great dancers who had never done it before, they just had the rhythm. I hated playing for those billed as 'dances for dancers' where they just wanted some music to walk about to.

 

For morris I was quite often playing after a few pints and sometimes accused of being too fast. But we got a lot of compliments from audiences.

 

 

As a young man I loved jiving to rock and roll and the band just did its thing, no strict tempo, and we adapted to that. The music drove it. my son is a DJ and says the music drives the dance.

 

I think it's only when we get 'strictly come dancing' or competitions that we get strict tempo.

 

 

I personally always favoured the Dionysian element of music and dance.

 

 

 

I remember when Pyewacket did a ceilidh at Sheffield University in the 80s. They stoppped dead in a Strip the Willow and the dancers ignored them and just clapped the time and carried on. It was apparent to me that the band meant it to stop there. They later slunk back on and tried to regain the lead but they got ignored! Mind they did get a good applause at the end of the evening but it showed how a dance can develop its own momentum and energy. Hats off tpo the band they engendered the state of ecstacy!

As an X Rocker myself I can agree with part of what you say but for Ballroom Dances and many Folk Dances strictish tempo makes the dance danceable.

Al

[hjcjones]

You need to keep a steady tempo for dances, but you can play about with the rhythm, and it is often this which gives the music its drive - it's certainly more interesting for the musicians.

 

My first wife danced for a North West morris side and for a while I played in the band, but I had to leave because they insisted on playing everything "straight" while I constantly found myself wanting to do more things with the tune. No criticism of them, that's the style NW morris is played, but I found it too restrictive.

[michael sam wild]

Don't get me wrong Alan, I believe in keeping time , it's not Isadora Duncan type free form dance. But there are lots of speeds, syncopations and other musical effects that make for an exciting dance band.

 

I'm not going to start citing my favourites I'm sure it's all been done before.

[michael stutesman]

I was at a workshop for dance musicians a few years ago which was filled with good dancers and musicians and the question cmae up of what makes music danceable (aside from simply being too fast or too slow). One of the musician instructors said it was identifying the 'one'. They then proceeded to demonstrate by playing some music that was undanceable. The tempo was medium, it was musical and not just chaotic noise, but you couldn't identify a 'one' anywhere. There was literally no place to put your foot on the floor. For me as a dancer and musician it was a very compelling demonstration.

 

I believe that the easiest way for musicians to be problematic for dancers is to get the tempo 'wrong' for whatever type dancing you are playing for. There is a 'comfort zone' for almost all dances outside which the dance becomes a chore or boring or completely impossible. All dance musicians should strive to know these zones and they are, of course, very different for different dances.

[Alan Day]

About thirty years ago,or was it thirty five I played bugle in a Boys Brigade Band. The band played on the way to church and we marched from Clapham into Battersea where the church was situated. Half way through the march we were told to speed up because we were late,so the band played the march faster. It had an interesting effect, all we achieved was that the marchers took smaller steps and we actually continued at the same speed. This is exactly what happens if you play a jig or reel faster,the dancers take smaller steps. It is also why French Waltzes are unique because the dancers take tiny almost non existent steps with lots of spins, whereas the English Waltz is played much slower to enable the high steps taken by the English Dancers with slower stepped through turns.

The dance speed is important and if you are a dancer you notice straight away that the band are not dancers from the way they play the music.

Al

[JimLucas]

For dancing, the tempo is important and steadiness (of the beats where one or another foot takes the weight) is important, but rigidity is also important... to avoid.

 

My most extensive experience is with contra dance and Cotswold Morris.

 

Many contra dances can be quite enjoyable at a variety of speeds. The "feel" of the dance is different at different speeds and the dancers' style will vary accordingly. And one thing that is occasionally done (but not so often as to become boring in itself) with a dance is to start off at a slower tempo, but speed up as the dance progresses. This can be done gradually, but may also be done as a sudden transition from a slower tempo to a quicker, usually with a deliberate increase in the energy of the playing, which is picked up and amplified by the dancers. Another, less common trick (I've done it myself, though only a couple of times) is to change to a tune with a different meter, without changing the tempo, e.g., a segue from a jig to a reel or polka. All of these have two main beats per measure, beats on which weight is placed on a foot (contra dances are done with a simple walking step), but in the reel and polka those beats have finer subdivisions. The result is a feeling that the music has sped up, even though it really hasn't.

 

Another purpose of flexibility in setting the tempo is to match the feel of the dance to the mood of the dancers. With contra dance, that's matching the mood of a large group, so there's both less room and less need for significant variation. Nevertheless, a general mood may be affected by anything from the weather to the day of the week (people usually feel a bit different on a Saturday evening than in the middle of the week). Usually, though, it should be the caller who selects the tempo, not the band itself. And the flip side of mood matching is that the caller may select a tempo -- also a particular dance and possibly even a particular set of tunes -- in order to set a mood.

 

In Morris, adjusting the tempo to the dancers is even more important, and this takes two forms.

 

First is adjusting the tempo to the mood of the dancing set. A moderate tempo at the beginning of a tour will give the dancers a chance to warm up. A slightly brisker tempo may be appreciated once their blood begins to circulate (perhaps after the second cup of coffee, for those who have that habit ). But toward the end of the tour the dancers may begin to tire and appreciate a return to a more relaxed tempo. And in my experience, a relaxed tempo is also appreciated once a few pints have been consumed.

 

But many Cotswold dances include capers, high leaps, for which the melody is deliberately and formally played at a slower tempo, to give the dancers time to rise into the air and then return to the ground. The music for the "slows", as these sections are often called, is usually notated at half the speed of the rest, but in fact the tempo can vary widely and should be adjusted to match the ability of the dancers to remain aloft. I.e., the strong beat should be heard precisely when the dancer(s) feet land, regardless of how long or short a time they have been in the air. Some fudging may be necessary if more than one dancer is capering at the same time and they're not quite in synch. (In that case, it's probably best to match the shortest air-time and let the more aerodynamic dancers rein in their own leaps to match.) In jigs (in Morris that just means a solo dance, not a particular rhythmic pattern), adjustment of the music to the dancer may be even more extensive, following personal interpretation not only in the capers, but also in side steps, galleys, etc.

 

And now a question with regard to Irish dance: Rigidly defined tempos may be required in some competitions, but is this expected by dancers when they're performing, rather than in competition? I speculate that it may depend at least to some extent on the dance. E.g., the execution of a hard shoe hornpipe routine may expect a particular fixed tempo, but in a soft shoe dance which includes high leaps (e.g., a slip jig) would it not be appropriate for the music to "stretch" slightly to allow a dancer capable of greater aerial duration to demonstrate this gracefully? You Irish experts, what do you say?

 

Finally, I want to say something about the dancing vs. listening question:

 

When playing for dancing, the playing needs to match and support the dancing. But the same tune may be played differently for different forms of dance, e.g., a solo step dance or a set (Irish). And dance is not the only purpose, not even the only original purpose of all tunes. Many are song tunes, not just adapted for songs but originally composed as songs, even though they share the same rhythmic structure as dance tunes. The extensive first section of O'Neill's 1850 Irish Melodies is "Airs". i.e., song melodies, and it includes tunes representative of all the standard dance forms, many of which have been used for dancing, but O'Neill's classification suggests that the musicians he collected them from played them in the style of songs rather than dances.

 

Many tunes have historically served more than one purpose. E.g., O'Carolan's "Princess Royal", a performance piece composed for the entertainment of his contemporary upper class, is today performed in that manner, but also (in many musical variants) for Morris dancing, and it is one of the several tunes used for the ballad "Gypsy Davey". So I'll maintain that a tune played in performance not only may be, but should be played at whatever tempo and with whatever style suits the taste of the performer. And it shouldn't even be necessary -- though it might be nice -- to announce to the audience that this is a departure from the way it is "normally" played in some particular tradition or other. (I would, however, object to describing it simply as "traditional" if its style is not taken from a given tradition together with the tune.)

 

There are some lovely examples of this on a recording which is unfortunately long out of print... Bertram Levy and Frank Farrell's Sageflower Suite. Bert has taken traditional Appalachian dance tunes and reshaped them in various ways to accompany a ballet. And his rendition of "Trip to Paris", a 17th(?) century English dance tune is absolutely lovely, a wonderful listening experience, though far too slow for the dance as I've danced it.

 

My opinions.

 

Edited to make a few passages more clear.

Edited November 2, 2009 by JimLucas