Ok, I want your opinon..

[Susanne]

I've seen that most new anglo concertinas cost around 3000+ euros... now when I'm looking I found some at a much lower price, so I wonder what you think of these brands. Now we're talking:

 

-playability, is it easy to play? does the bellows move smoothly? can you easily reach the air button?

-does it have adjustable hand straps, or can that easily be fixed otherwise?

-is the sound nice?

-do you generally think it's a good instrument?

-size, is it small and handy, normal size? (not big and clumsy as the Rochelle)

 

I found these that had lower prices:

Morse Ceili (at the Button Box)

Herrington

AP James

Marcus

Sherwood

 

What is your experience of plastic buttons? I notice that many of these have plastic buttons... mine has too (it's a cheap Stagi-type of concertina) and I think they're wiggly and unstable and make noises when I play.. what is your experience of more expensive concertinas and plastic buttons?

 

Another question, if I've learned to play the Wheatstone layout, do I have to stay with a Wheatstone layout concertina? How big is the difference? (of course I prefer not to have to re-learn everything)

[JimLucas]

I've seen that most new anglo concertinas cost around 3000+ euros... now when I'm looking I found some at a much lower price, so I wonder what you think of these brands. Now we're talking:

 

-playability, is it easy to play? does the bellows move smoothly? can you easily reach the air button?

-does it have adjustable hand straps, or can that easily be fixed otherwise?

-is the sound nice?

-do you generally think it's a good instrument?

-size, is it small and handy, normal size? (not big and clumsy as the Rochelle)

 

I found these that had lower prices:

Morse Ceili (at the Button Box)

Herrington

AP James

Marcus

Sherwood

Hej Susi,

 

I believe there are various folks here who have played each of the above and will give their opinions. All, as far as I know, are standard-size (though AP James also advertises a 20-button "miniature", and Herrington lists a slightly smaller square-ended model). The Morse Ceili, however, seems to be the champion for light weight.

 

From personal experience, I myself recommend the Ceili. (I don't disrecommend the others; I just don't have experience with them.) It sounds good, plays well, and is sturdy.

 

What is your experience of plastic buttons? I notice that many of these have plastic buttons... mine has too (it's a cheap Stagi-type of concertina) and I think they're wiggly and unstable and make noises when I play.. what is your experience of more expensive concertinas and plastic buttons?

"Wiggly and unstable" is due to the internal mechanism connecting the buttons to the pads. It has nothing to do with the material the buttons are made of. My personal experience with buttons of Delrin (the preferred plastic for concertina buttons) is that it's just as good in both feel and function as bone, ivory, or other "traditional" materials.

 

Another question, if I've learned to play the Wheatstone layout, do I have to stay with a Wheatstone layout concertina?

No.

How big is the difference?

This has been discussed over and over in various prior threads. You might want to use the Search facility to find a few and see what you think of the various arguments. But really, can the difference be any more of a difficulty than a nonstandard tuning on fiddle or guitar, or driving on the other side of the road when visiting England? Yet thousands of individuals survive each of those experiences every year.

[Snorre]

My only experience over time is with the Morse:

Playability: Good. Responds quickly, and feels "tight". Had a comment that the the bellows were a little stiff (from a player that plays a Suttner and a Jeffries), but she said it would probably soften up (my Morse was only two months old at the time).

 

Handstraps: Adjustable. The people at The Button Box also supplied me with a new set of straps with an extra set of holes ($9) after the originals were

stretched a bit (after about 6 months of playing).

 

Sound: It sound like it has accordeon reeds, but it sounds nice at that. Volume is ok, but not as loud as the Suttners I have tried.

 

Overall: I am very pleased with my instrument. It is very playable, very light action, loud enough to play in sessions, very light (just under 1 kg I think).

 

 

Size: I think it is of a "normal" concertina size, if there is such a thing.

 

The buttons make no noise when played, probably because the instrument is well and precicely put together. More than I could say about my Hohner....

 

Layout: I went from Wheatstone to Jeffries layout when I got the Morse, and it was less of a hassle than I thought. However, I still try to learn tunes involving C# in a way that would make a future transition as easy as possible. I heard someone (on this forum?) say that it wouldn't take more than a couple of weeks of practice to go from one to the other.

 

Edit: crossposted with JimLucas

Edited October 13, 2009 by Snorre

[Susanne]

Thanks guys for your replies! The Ceili sounds interesting. The lighter, the better:)

LOL, yeah, you are right, people do survive the transition between tunings... I survived going from GDAE to GDAD or possibly ADAD on a bouzouki.. just that maybe it will be harder when you are so new to the instrument as I am with the concertina? Not sure. It's never a problem on the zouk. Just learning new chord positions:)

 

Maybe I should check out some key "maps" of the different layouts. Now, if I decide to get a Ceili, you can choose from Wheatstone, Lachenal and Jeffries. I think my no-name concertina has the Wheatstone layout.

 

Temptation is killing me... but I will try to wait until next year, I just got a C organetto and promised myself not to buy any more instruments for a while..

 

More input is welcome though!

Edited October 13, 2009 by Susanne

[David S]

Anthony James used to work for Andrew Norman and makes his concertinas (around £1200) in a similar style. Both the James and the Norman are excellent instruments for the price and with stable fast actions. I have a Norman G/D as my canoeing box and I much prefer its action to that of some of the other similarly priced concertinas that you mention. Yes, they are accordian reeded, but with quality reeds not in in any way to be compared with the Stagi or Hohner. IMHO they represent excellent value for money and whilst ideal for a beginner, will not hold back a player in the way that a wheezy old Lachenal (in the same price range) might!

 

Check out the pictures on his website (http://www.apjmusic.co.uk) to see the quality of the instrument.

[CaryK]

I've seen that most new anglo concertinas cost around 3000+ euros... now when I'm looking I found some at a much lower price, so I wonder what you think of these brands. Now we're talking:

 

-playability, is it easy to play? does the bellows move smoothly? can you easily reach the air button?

-does it have adjustable hand straps, or can that easily be fixed otherwise?

-is the sound nice?

-do you generally think it's a good instrument?

-size, is it small and handy, normal size? (not big and clumsy as the Rochelle)

 

I found these that had lower prices:

Morse Ceili (at the Button Box)

Herrington

AP James

Marcus

Sherwood

 

What is your experience of plastic buttons? I notice that many of these have plastic buttons... mine has too (it's a cheap Stagi-type of concertina) and I think they're wiggly and unstable and make noises when I play.. what is your experience of more expensive concertinas and plastic buttons?

 

Another question, if I've learned to play the Wheatstone layout, do I have to stay with a Wheatstone layout concertina? How big is the difference? (of course I prefer not to have to re-learn everything)

 

Don't forget to consider Frank Edgley's fine instruments. They are not that much more than a Morse. I play both a Herrington (C/G) and an Edgley (A/E). Weight for me is not an issue. I've played the Morse Ceili and found I prefer a slightly heavier instrument. The Herrington and Edgley are not particularly heavy, nor are they as light as the Morse. Both have excellent playability with the Edgley having the edge (no pun intended) to my ears in tonal balance and overall sound. Both are very well made instruments. Very clean, solid and tight along all the internal and external wood seams. Both have supple bellows, but still give good control, when playing. Placement of the air button is just right for me. Aesthethically speaking, the Edgley has a nicer finish, but that's just personal opinion. My Herrington is 11 years old and has a flat finish on the wood, which has held up very well through several owners. When the metal sides are polished-up both instruments look new. Both will hold up for many decades to come, I suspect.

 

Unfortunately, I can't tell you about a new Herrington. But I believe Mr. Herrington has been constantly improving his instruments and mine is one of the earlier ones he initally made and sold. The Edgley I own is 3 years old.

[JimLucas]

Maybe I should check out some key "maps" of the different layouts. Now, if I decide to get a Ceili, you can choose from Wheatstone, Lachenal and Jeffries. I think my no-name concertina has the Wheatstone layout.

I believe the standard layouts for Lachenal and Wheatstone are identical. Jeffries differs in the "accidental" (third) row of the right hand.

 

With the Morse -- and I'm pretty sure with any of the makers, -- you can request minor personal variations. When I ordered my Morse (no longer in my possession, or I'd let you try it) I did just that, and I didn't regret them. Somewhere in an old thread I give the details. I'll try to find that for you, but not before I get some sleep.

[newgrange]

Harry Geuns makes Anglos for prices that won't break the bank.

Harry Geuns' site

 

-playability, is it easy to play? does the bellows move smoothly? can you easily reach the air button?

Yes, Yes and Yes. Amazed at how easily the bellows move compared to the Rochelle I had.

 

-does it have adjustable hand straps, or can that easily be fixed otherwise?

Yes it has.

 

-is the sound nice?

I like it. It's not quite the sound of other concertinas. I'm not sure what the term would be for it, but my concertina teacher calls it 'very bright'.

 

-do you generally think it's a good instrument?

In as much as my opinion is worth much given my lack of experience, I like it. I find it very easy to play. The buttons respond very quickly indeed - sometimes too quickly as I'm still adjusting from the size of the Rochelle and occasionally suffer from 'banana fingers'.

 

-size, is it small and handy, normal size? (not big and clumsy as the Rochelle)

Yes, it's small. It's 15.5cm across.

[david_boveri]

Maybe I should check out some key "maps" of the different layouts. Now, if I decide to get a Ceili, you can choose from Wheatstone, Lachenal and Jeffries. I think my no-name concertina has the Wheatstone layout.

I believe the standard layouts for Lachenal and Wheatstone are identical. Jeffries differs in the "accidental" (third) row of the right hand.

 

i'm not sure if that's entirely accurate. i know that a lot of old wheatstones had 2 D pushes on the left hand side, for a total of 3 low D's. i think lachenal's followed jeffries in that they replaced that extra pull D on the G row with a pull A. all in all, not a major difference, and probably not even standard across the board. also, lachenal and wheatstone many differ in the very teeny tiny high notes at the right end of the instrument, which--again--don't really matter.

[JimLucas]

I believe the standard layouts for Lachenal and Wheatstone are identical. Jeffries differs in the "accidental" (third) row of the right hand.

i'm not sure if that's entirely accurate.

If it were "entirely", I wouldn't need to use the word "standard".

 

i know that a lot of old wheatstones had 2 D pushes on the left hand side, for a total of 3 low D's.

I think you mean two pull D's, but only one push. Yes? That's certainly my experience.

 

i think lachenal's followed jeffries in that they replaced that extra pull D on the G row with a pull A.

Both from personal experience and from the statements of others, I've come to understand that the two pull D's is standard, and that replacing the one in the G row with a low A is a common variant, but not a change in design that became a new standard. Also not just for Wheatstone and Lachenal. I've had anglos by Jones and even Jeffries where that button had a second pull D, not a pull low A.

 

all in all, not a major difference, and probably not even standard across the board.

Exactly.

 

I'm pretty sure that all modern makers give a choice for that note (and most will allow customization of any button, within reason).

 

also, lachenal and wheatstone many differ in the very teeny tiny high notes at the right end of the instrument, which--again--don't really matter.

I find that to me they do matter, but in general I live with what I get. I.e., I haven't yet tried customizing an existing instrument, though I did make some personal choices when ordering a new Morse Ceili. Here again, on both the C and G rows of a 30-button instrument I've found that there's a "standard" layout common to all makers, and although individual instruments may have various individual departures from the standard, they are uncommon.

[david_boveri]

I believe the standard layouts for Lachenal and Wheatstone are identical. Jeffries differs in the "accidental" (third) row of the right hand.

i'm not sure if that's entirely accurate.

If it were "entirely", I wouldn't need to use the word "standard".

 

i know that a lot of old wheatstones had 2 D pushes on the left hand side, for a total of 3 low D's.

I think you mean two pull D's, but only one push. Yes? That's certainly my experience.

 

i think lachenal's followed jeffries in that they replaced that extra pull D on the G row with a pull A.

Both from personal experience and from the statements of others, I've come to understand that the two pull D's is standard, and that replacing the one in the G row with a low A is a common variant, but not a change in design that became a new standard. Also not just for Wheatstone and Lachenal. I've had anglos by Jones and even Jeffries where that button had a second pull D, not a pull low A.

 

all in all, not a major difference, and probably not even standard across the board.

Exactly.

 

I'm pretty sure that all modern makers give a choice for that note (and most will allow customization of any button, within reason).

 

also, lachenal and wheatstone many differ in the very teeny tiny high notes at the right end of the instrument, which--again--don't really matter.

I find that to me they do matter, but in general I live with what I get. I.e., I haven't yet tried customizing an existing instrument, though I did make some personal choices when ordering a new Morse Ceili. Here again, on both the C and G rows of a 30-button instrument I've found that there's a "standard" layout common to all makers, and although individual instruments may have various individual departures from the standard, they are uncommon.

 

certainly you are correct--it is 2 PULL D's. i also agree that they do matter, but i dont think they're important for most people. i agonize about giving up 3rd octave Eb for pull 3rd octave D.... there have been many instances when i need that Eb. believe you me... every note to me is very important, and i agonize endlessly about what notes i want where.

 

as for who came up with which variation, and which was historically more common for which maker, i have no idea.

[Hup]

I wish I could hear a few different Anglos side by side "live". Maybe this thought experiment

would help:

 

Let's suppose you got a top player like Edel Fox to play the same tune on

12 different concertinas - no microphones. Let's suppose 9 of them were examples

of vintage Wheatstones, a couple of different Suttner models, a couple of different

Dipper models, maybe a couple of vintage Jeffries - top class instruments.

 

Now let's add three accordion reeded instruments - say an Edgley, a Tedrow and a Norman.

 

The audience is blindfolded - they have no idea what's being played.

 

Would it be obvious to most people which ones were the accordion-reeded concertinas,

considering that no two of these instruments would sound the same?

[John Wild]

Let's suppose you got a top player like Edel Fox to play the same tune on

12 different concertinas - no microphones. Let's suppose 9 of them were examples

of vintage Wheatstones, a couple of different Suttner models, a couple of different

Dipper models, maybe a couple of vintage Jeffries - top class instruments.

 

Now let's add three accordion reeded instruments - say an Edgley, a Tedrow and a Norman.

 

The audience is blindfolded - they have no idea what's being played.

 

Would it be obvious to most people which ones were the accordion-reeded concertinas,

considering that no two of these instruments would sound the same?

 

3 couples = 6. add the first 9 and 3 accordion reeded instruments: you then have 18 instruments. the blindfolded listeners would be very confused if they were told there only 12 different concertinas to pick out!!

[Hup]

Piss off John. Anybody have a theory about the outcome of such an experiment?

I suspect the audience would not be unanimous - but what do you all think?

[John Wild]

Piss off John. Anybody have a theory about the outcome of such an experiment?

 

 

Oh dear, oh dear!

 

Obviously three smileys are not enough for you.

[Mark Taylor]

Hup,

 

I agree with John, though I don't think I would have said 'piss of.' I don't fully understand the original post,

but I do believe the OP might want to consider Frank Edgly as a source for concertinas in either Wheatstone or

Jeffries configuration.

 

Mark

[Susanne]

What's the difference in sound between an instrument with accordion reeds and one with concertina reeds?

[David Levine]

I don't care as much about what the audience thinks, as much as I care about what the concertina sounds like to me, and how it responds in my hands.

This has been argued to death in the world of fine violins. Distinguished players couldn’t tell the difference - listening - between a fine Strad and a cheap fiddle, each played behind a curtain so the listeners couldn’t see which fiddle was which. But they could certainly tell the difference when they themselves were playing the instrument.

Perhaps I couldn’t immediately tell the difference between the Morse (which I like very much) and my Carroll if I was in the audience and a fast reel was offered. But in my hands and from two feet away I could certainly tell immediately which was which. And that is what is most important. To me, at any rate.