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Hayden Duet vs Anglo?


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. . . a plus for this Frenchy stuff. . .

 

What is this "Frenchy stuff"?

French folk music nowadays is mostly in Amin, wich is still diatonic and easily played on C/G pull.

If you mean so called "French Musette", and concerned about the "right" instrument, get small 4 row chromatic accordion from Saltarelle or Castagnari. No Duet will do it, just doesn't sound "right". I guess concertina with closest sound to the doleful "frenchy" feel is Edgley, but it's Anglo.

Other concertinas I heard have a little too unsophisticated, simple sound, without second layer to it. French Musette will just sound strange with such round, naive sound. I'm surprised why Americans are not holding concertina in higher acclaim, seems to be their instrument.

Have you tried Harry Geuns' entry level chromatic system Bandoneon? It's duet all right, octave tuned. I heard good reviews about them.

And the site is here: http://www.bandoneon-maker.com/nieuwe_pagina_24.htm

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I'd like to wade in at this late stage with an entirely heretical suggestion :lol:

 

The important thing is not the system of duet (and not really even the system in terms of anglo v english v duet). As wise people have pointed out, good players learn to play whatever they like on their instruments, and conversely people not prepared to put in the practice hours (which is what turns you into a good player - about 10000 solid hours separate the beginners from the highly accomplished musicians of the world) do not become good players even if they play 'easy' systems.

 

What is important is the reeds, the wood and the metal of the instrument and how these are put together, or what they can be restored to. You need an instrument that sounds good, responds well to your touch and (and this is very important) satisfies your sense of aesthetics. It's really the aesthetics that determine why, for instance, ITM 'has' to be played on a 3-row anglo. This doesn't make logical sense. After all, ITM players jump through remarkable hoops to smooth out the natural bounce of the instrument when they could just as easily be playing an english where this wouldn't be a problem. But the aesthetics are important. And, incidentally, good ITM players make a system that, while on the face of things, isn't smooth produce music that fits a flowing and lyrical reel with a subtle backpulse that really lifts it.

 

So, I would say that you should get the best instrument available to you, regardless of system. It should sound good, even when someone who can't play it makes noises on it. It's difficult to tell if an instrument you can't play has a good feel and action, so ideally you should get someone who can play it to have a crack at it and give you some feedback. Otherwise, you'll just have to wing it based on your experience of anglos. And you should love it, it should fit your sense of what is 'right' for your music, whether this makes rational sense or not. If it doesn't make sense initially, enough practice will sort that out (just ask Noel Hill...). It's probably worth having an eye to the future and bearing the potential availability of a larger instrument in mind for a few years down the road, but I'd keep this very much as a secondary or tertiary factor. (Where there's a will there's a way - even large Cranes exist!). If you get a good instrument, whichever it is, it will be a joy to play which will lead to you playing it enough to become good at it.

 

<steps off soapbox>

 

Do let us know what you plump for.

 

Jon

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What is this "Frenchy stuff"?

This "Frenchy stuff" is from a collection titled "1 Musette: recueil de 1100 Succes" published by editions Paul Beuscher, Paris. The material spans the 30s to the 60s, with the majority from the 50s.

 

French folk music nowadays is mostly in Amin, wich is still diatonic and easily played on C/G pull.

If you mean so called "French Musette", and concerned about the "right" instrument, get small 4 row chromatic accordion from Saltarelle or Castagnari. No Duet will do it, just doesn't sound "right". I guess concertina with closest sound to the doleful "frenchy" feel is Edgley, but it's Anglo.

Other concertinas I heard have a little too unsophisticated, simple sound, without second layer to it. French Musette will just sound strange with such round, naive sound. I'm surprised why Americans are not holding concertina in higher acclaim, seems to be their instrument.

Hmm. . . well. . . that's a trick. . . I've been thinking about this, as well. The Beltrami "La Petite" looks quite nice:

 

http://www.beltrami-fisarmoniche.it/fisarmoniche.php?id2=16

 

The thing is. . . how many instruments does one really need? I suppose the answer is, what are one's needs? The thought was, a more chromatic concertina, while not the 'right' instrument, would certainly make the effort easier.

 

Have you tried Harry Geuns' entry level chromatic system Bandoneon? It's duet all right, octave tuned. I heard good reviews about them.

And the site is here: http://www.bandoneon-maker.com/nieuwe_pagina_24.htm

I'm aware. I do have a friend who is a tango player--and am quite sure there would be little to no approval unless I were to play a bisonoric bandoneon. . .

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If you mean so called "French Musette", and concerned about the "right" instrument, get small 4 row chromatic accordion from Saltarelle or Castagnari. No Duet will do it, just doesn't sound "right". I guess concertina with closest sound to the doleful "frenchy" feel is Edgley, but it's Anglo.

Well, there's the Dipper Franglo, but that's not something that's available "off the shelf".

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The thing is. . . how many instruments does one really need? I suppose the answer is, what are one's needs? The thought was, a more chromatic concertina, while not the 'right' instrument, would certainly make the effort easier.

French Muzette as we know it is not chromatic. It's largely diatonic, only in minor keys. Anglo is perfectly capable of it, including the harmony, if you play in the "right" key. My opinion.

You don't need duet concertna if you think it resembles small accordion, because it's not. It doesn't sound like one, it is not as easy to play harmony as on accordion, it's too squeaky on the right -> will sound plain weird and nerdy. Far cry from eloquent "silver age" of the sophisticated Decadence. Completely defeats the purpose. Like dancing "Dying Swan" in military uniform.

 

I'm aware. I do have a friend who is a tango player--and am quite sure there would be little to no approval unless I were to play a bisonoric bandoneon. .
.

Quite the contrary: I had an exchange with another tango player, who's been in Buenos Aires for workshops. He said those C or B system Chinese made Hybrids are looked at with great interest in Bandoneon schools. Esp. as more and more students arrive with them.

 

But frankly, if you look at accordions, forget about the Petite, get yourself a nice used 3 or 5 row Hohner, made in the 50es. They will cost somewhere in $500-800 range. They often have 24 basses though. Or easily available off the shelf brand new Weltmeister with 82 basses, 5 row. About $1500 new.

 

I don't like Weltmeister CBAs, as their sound is harsh and the reeds are not as good. But old red perlaroid Hohners in the cabinet and of the size of Club were outstanding.

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You don't need duet concertna if you think it resembles small accordion, because it's not. It doesn't sound like one, it is not as easy to play harmony as on accordion, it's too squeaky on the right -> will sound plain weird and nerdy. Far cry from eloquent "silver age" of the sophisticated Decadence. Completely defeats the purpose. Like dancing "Dying Swan" in military uniform.

 

Blimey. You could always oil it.

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You don't need duet concertna if you think it resembles small accordion, because it's not. It doesn't sound like one, it is not as easy to play harmony as on accordion, it's too squeaky on the right -> will sound plain weird and nerdy. Far cry from eloquent "silver age" of the sophisticated Decadence. Completely defeats the purpose. Like dancing "Dying Swan" in military uniform.

Blimey. You could always oil it.

And the oily bird gets what? :unsure:

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But frankly, if you look at accordions, forget about the Petite, get yourself a nice used 3 or 5 row Hohner, made in the 50es. They will cost somewhere in $500-800 range. They often have 24 basses though.

Any specific models you can recommend looking out for?

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But frankly, if you look at accordions, forget about the Petite, get yourself a nice used 3 or 5 row Hohner, made in the 50es. They will cost somewhere in $500-800 range. They often have 24 basses though.

Any specific models you can recommend looking out for?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Delicia-Chromatic-Butt...66#ht_500wt_972 - Delicia 72 bass, 2 voices. C griff Delicias are not bad, made in Czechoslovakia of the past.

 

http://www.instrumentalsavings.com/Hohner-...p/ho-n-ii48.htm Nova. Good price.

Probably made in China though.

 

http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/used....tic++accordions - weltmeister B system. Great price. Decent quality.

 

Pigini's "Peter Pan". I heard very good reviews about it. One voice with free bass.

http://www.donsevers.com/Bayans%20and%20ba...an/piginipp.htm - a blog about it. I know the guy, he was very fond of his Pigini.

 

Can't remember the name of the one I had. I bought it at $700 from the "Tempo Trend". Then upgraded to Russian made bayan and sold Hohner. What a mistake!

 

But a friend of mine recently sold his C chromatic and bought piano accordion. There are plenty of small great ones at super good prices. I mean in the US. PA is actually easier to figure out, it's more intuitive.

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  • 1 month later...

Do let us know what you plump for.

 

Well. . . you'll be interested to know that I've just received an Elise Hayden duet (http://www.concertinaconnection.com/elise.htm) from Concertina Connection.

 

I'm finding the regularity of the Hayden system to be quite attractive. Transposing is a matter of moving to a different position on the keyboard, rather than doing any serious re-thinking. As the the Elise "has been developed for first time players", it isn't so straight forward to compare to my top end Anglos. That is, I don't expect to be able to play as fast on the Wakker W-A4 I own. That said, having the Elise is great to get a flavour of the Hayden system. The more I play it, the more convinced I am of the merits of the keyboard system. Also worth mentioning, the Elise is a 34 key instrument, which limits both the range and the keys one can play in. The Wakker W-H1 has 46 keys. . . and am now seeing why the larger 65 key W-H2 might be interesting.

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