Chris_L

Is this still going? Would be interested to see the pictures.

Yes, sorry if I've muddled the issue here- there are so many things to think about and I can't reply to everybody but thanks, it's all much appreciated. Hi Jody. You may remember me as the guy with the wheezy Lachenal last year at Byfleet Folk Club. (I have a better one now) D/G/C sounds like a good idea. D,G,C and F seem to be the best singing keys for me. Yes, cost is an issue of course (I didn't want to spend that kind of money without being sure I was serious about this) but it's also about ease of fingering and key choices. I'll look out for one of those Haydens but I think I need to get a three row Anglo now. Should be able to pick up a reasonable C/G for about £2000?

After my gaff about EC's above, Geoff Wooff replied in a personal conversation. What he said was interesting enough for me to reproduce here: After what Geoff said about the isomorphic Hayden system I read up a bit on the two Duet systems and had a look at the keyboard maps. From where I'm coming from the Hayden looks better as it is fully isomorthic- you can play in different keys while using the same fingering patterns, which is ideal for a singer or accompanist. How affordable or easy these are to come by is another matter but I think I'll pass on the MacCann.

JimLucas- I wasn't planning a full biography on here just yet, but since you ask, I did play the "EC" back in the Sixties...I played EC and a little melodeon back then as well as guitar...I only ever learnt a couple of tunes on the EC but I do have an idea of how it works. I don't think I had ever seen an Anglo then- they were killed off like the red sqirrels by melodeons- but if I had I would have realised that the Anglo is a better choice for a melodeon player. Growing up in Suffolk, I could hear traditional melodeon players in the pubs and Bob Roberts was around to set the example for singing with melodeon. I was looking for a way to accompany myself and I was influenced by Alf Edwards on the A.L.Lloyd records. (I'm delighted to discover that my C/G Anglo can play "Lovely Joan" in D minor and it sounds just as good as it used to on the EC.) Later on I discovered that the Anglo was preferred by working class musicians like Scan Tester and William Kimber, just as the melodeon was preferred to the piano accordian, possibly for economic reasons- I think they were cheaper. The Anglo was better as a solo instrument for Morris dance, I think. As far as bellows direction is concerned, it's not the case that I think it unimportant. In fact I think that's exactly what I like about the Anglo- the bouncy rhythm that flows naturally from it, the way it seems to play you. However, I can see that for fast runs in the Irish style the EC would be better than my 2-row Anglo. What you say about the Maccann is very interesting. I haven't had a chance to try one yet and as always the problem is getting hold of a decent instrument on a limited budget, but I'll certainly look out for one.

My mistake sorry- guess i'm obsessed with Anglos at the moment and I have been chasing a chimera. But if anybody wants to buy that Bb/D Anglo it's still for sale on Ebay!

I'm mainly interested in English music and I think that the G/D system is a recent innovation in my home territory of East Anglia at least. That aside though, the choice of G/D seems sensible for session music. All these comments are helpful but I'd still like to hear from somebody with experience of playing a 1/4 or 4/1 (C/E, D/Bb, etc). I've been poking around on here, and in a few minutes I found two players who play EC! (Geoff Wooff and spindizzy) so they might have something to add to this discussion if I can persuade them to contribute.

Did you mean Greeks or Geeks Kautilya? I don't speak any Greek.

Hi Spindizzy. Did you say EC? I just started a topic (Anglo keys) which is about 2 row concertinas in key relationships other than 1/5. I'm wondering how you find playing an EC?

Thanks guys, I'm overwhelmed by the response- I'm happy to see that other people think this issue worth discussing, and I can see that there are a number of possibilities other than the one I mentioned- which just came up at an affordable price. Jim, your suggestions are illuminating. It's interesting that nobody seems to have tried the C/C# option as this is a common system for Melodeon. And I can see that C/G# or the equivalent could work. But life is short. I can see why an experienced player would think twice about re-learning all his fingering patterns to try a new arrangement- but for a beginner it is an intriguing possibility. I must admit I find the idea of retuning a concertina fairly daunting so I haven't considered working through these possibilities except in my head. I saw a digital concertina on Youtube recently- perhaps that could be programmed to try out the different layouts before committing to a retune? And yes I see the point about the cycle of Forths, and having those alternate naturals. I take your point, Brian, about playing across the rows, bellows direction etc- but there is also a loss of simplicity because the two keys will be fingered differently- my starting point was to treat the box as two "harmonicas" which of course facilitates transposition. I didn't explain that my interest here is two-fold; to play tunes (which means playing in D and G for sessions) and for singing (which means having access to several keys to match the range of my voice). So I'm looking to access keys like C, D, F, G and Bb! How easy is it to play in D, say, on a three row C/G? It seems odd to me that C/G is the prefered option for sessions and not G/D- is this just a historical accident? And thanks for the invitation Kautilya, I will try to get along tomorrow. And yes, I will be the one (not) playing the 2 row Lachenal.

I'm new here and pretty much a beginner to the Anglo so forgive me if this sounds like a really dumb question! I'm not ready to buy a three row instrument yet so I'm playing a 2 row Lachenal C/G which is great for simple modal tunes or major tunes in the home keys but very restricted otherwise. Before I commit to a more expensive instrument, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of playing a 2 row Anglo that is not in the key relationship 1/5? (This possibility is not mentioned in the notes "If It's Not A C/G, What Is It?" by Ken Coles) I recently saw a Lachenal advertised for sale as a D/Bb. Perhaps this is an Eb/Bb that has been retuned? But on a purely conceptual level the choice of D/Bb seems to me far more flexible as it makes available 4 out of the 5 accidentals compared to only one on a C/G. Or am I missing the point?