LR71

In a group no one's going to notice the concertina isn't playing C#, that's all there is to it really. I play in a small session with a very good player who has a small Carroll and even he fades into the mix when we're all going. My only experience with melodeons was with a very talented local musician, who sadly passed away recently. He had a B/C but preferred to play this D melodeon, made by some maker popular with the Cajun crowd. This thing was LOUD. Outdoors, that is. Once the management at a pub insisted we play inside even though the weather was nice, and all you could hear was this melodeon and my banjo, it was like the fiddles/whistles/bodhran were all miming. Kind of hilarious fun, really. My friend was so talented you just didn't notice the absence of Cnat notes, and you can surely teach yourself to do the same with a 20 button and its lack of a C#. But like the link in my last post shows you're limited to substandard old instruments; you may as well get a substandard old 30 button, or a better old one, or a good plain jane modern concertina.

Also top quality vintage 20 button 'tinas are hard to come by, it seems. For a sec I was thinking hmm, get a nice 20 button Jeffries and add to it, but finding one looks to be a once in a lifetime thing.

You could play |A3 ABA B3 BAB A3 ABA| Make those dotted quarter notes very abbreviated. In fact how about Azz etc? It wouldn't stand out so much. In a group this all gets lost in the mix. Listen to Irish melodeon players deal with the absence of Cnat on their D instruments. That's a very common note in this music, as Peter says. They edit it out, drag out the previous note, play something that harmonizes. Or just play it in a different key that matches the original tune's mode. I once thought I'd found a lost tune on an old recording of one of these players, until his recordings were reissued and the notes identified it as something I knew already! Box players still use melodeons for their rich sound. At least in Irish music I don't think many bother with 20 buttons, since you aren't getting anything different sonically, the missing notes, and all the 30 button instruments out there. There are a few good players who have old concertinas with 24 or 26 buttons, though.

Glad to hear it went well for you, John. Don't know if this if familiar to you, but in Irish music there are two tunings of button accordion, BC and C#D; the former involves playing across the rows, the latter up and down them, which is more push+pull, punchy, although any good player can smooth things out as needed. There are very fast players of the C#D box, doubtless there would be of DA concertina too, if they weren't so rare. I was surprised that Dan Worrell didn't mention these accordion tunings in his book on Chris Droney, who plays along the G row, only using the other rows when needed. His observations about CG players being more ornamented or flashy are much akin to complaints some have made about BC box players.

Oh, it is a 12 year old question, isn't it. Well, we're talking about it now? Hadn't looked at those Delaney field recordings in a while. You do see Tony Smith, fiddler. Also some tape they've digitized, "Willie Clancy, Tony Smith." Hmmm! Among a lot of other interesting items. Was Antóin just rolling tape, or playing with Willie? The Housekeepers is a great record!

Years ago I was given dubs of field recordings of well known fiddlers - Junior Crehan, Paddy Canny, Paddy Fahy, etc., made by a visiting American in the early 70s. The person who sent me this also said there were recordings of younger fiddlers - Peoples, P Glackin, "Tony Smith." Who's Tony Smith, I asked. My correspondent said don't bother, he's terrible. I told him I'll be the judge of that! But nothing doing. Eventually I figured out it was Antóin Mac Gabhann he was talking about. Look up Kevin Delaney recordings, I think they're online. Perhaps that's who this T Smith is. Didn't know about that Richie Piggot site, will have to have a listen when I'm home. I assume you know about the Handed Down Sliabh Luachra archives? Nice to have someone interested in Irish music here.

I just had the C#/D# in my Wheatstone flipped, so it's Jeffries ish. I miss that push C# sometimes, but not a big deal.

I didn't know Dana builds D/A - I already play a Kensington. A friend had a G/D built recently. I already play things like the Boys of Malin in A, I'm just never happy having to do so! It seems unnatural, even the 2nd octvae, thanks for the mention of the G row A Wally - I try and use that in a lot of tunes, and it works, if I remember to do so! It just that playing in that key on the fiddle or banjo is a total snap, and I just wish it were a bit more straightforward to do so. I really think we'd have been better off with just a few more buttons. I play the box too (both systems), and while the concertina is great with the huge menu of options there are passages on the box that just play themselves in comparison. Going over my big playlist of concertina recordings I notice only a few tunes in A - I'm really good with titles in Irish music - Brenda Castles plays a couple completely effortlessly, you even hear her take advantage of things like the pull Bb as a passing note. And then a few others stand out. But otherwise it's solid D/G/relative minors/A minor or mixolydian. These musicians know about this material, it's interesting to me that they avoid it in the studio.

What would the bill be for making over, say, a steel reed Lachenal? Playing in A major on a 30 button C/G is a bit of a headache, that move from A to G# always gets me. It'd be great if an extra button could be jimmied onto my main instrument, but I don't think it's feasible. It'd be nice to just have a transposing instrument, and use G fingering for those pesky A tunes. I've read on here that it can be done. I play Irish music BTW so am purely interested in melodic playing.

I posted about Barry a while ago, he's an excellent player all right. Tons of videos he's made, too.

I haven't owned this for very long but need to have some cash in hand and am selling various instruments. Serial # 34305, the original sale is here with some details. I took more photos and made another video, I play all the notes on the LH G row, then C, then third; and then repeat on the RH; then noodle around a bit, then play Willie Coleman's. I had the reeds for the RH third row 1st button flipped, so now they play D#/C# push/pull, so it should be more familiar for Jeffries system players. Asking $3000 + shipping. Pictures Video

I kept envisioning something like a popsicle stick with half moons cut it into it, that you could hold the buttons in place with, and then remove when you're done. Anything has to be better than endlessly fidgeting with these things. By pushing around I'd pushed on the bushing around those buttons, and then when everything was in place the buttons were pushing the bushing out of the hole, so I had to work and get the bushing back down where it belonged. Hope that makes sense.

Per advice here I attempted to lighten the springs on my Wheatstone. For my first attempt at the LH I didn't really make much of a difference, and I somehow managed to get things back together. This morning I worked on the RH, and bent the springs a good deal more. Then I attempted to put it all back together. And attempted again. And attempted again. And attempted again. And attempted again. And attempted again. And attempted again. And attempted again. How in God's name does anybody does this in a timely fashion, if the buttons just keep falling over? After endlessly trying to keep things in line with sticks, long drill bits, holding it upside down, holding it sideways, starting at this end, starting at that end. Eventually I figured out that a higher work table is a big factor. And what eventually worked was just shoving a 6" drill bit around, attempting to make contact with...something...hoping I wasn't horking a pallet in the process. Of course, I'd get close to finishing, 28 buttons, and one simply didn't seem to be there. And I'd wonder, ha, maybe it fell over or came off the lever. How hilarious! 😠 Then I'd get it all together, and what do you know! Two buttons were stuck by their bushing. Eventually I figured out how to fix that - lift things up very carefully, then shove troublesome button down until bushing is back where it belongs. I spent about 30 minutes actually messing with springs, and 2 hours trying to get everything back together. This was one of the most aggravating/frustrating/off-putting jobs I've ever done with a musical instrument, and I used to make my own uilleann pipes reeds.

I'm in the US, NW corner. PM with offers.

Thanks Chris. I found this super helpful post of yours detailing what to do.

Thanks for the advice, Wally!

My 1936 Linota has a modern replacement riveted action, but it's too heavy for my liking. What's a ballpark estimate on the cost of having it set lighter? It's definitely heavier than my Kensington or Jeffries Duet. Dana sets his buttons at 40 grams, as I recall. These being small metal buttons instead of wide delrin on the Kensington playing the Wheatstone isn't very enjoyable.

Thanks, Stephen. The LINOTA stamp on mine is hard to read, on others I imagine it's barely visible by now. I hadn't even bothered to check - I figured Linotas all had metal ends. I was interested to see a comment from you in 2004 that I wonder if mine is from this subpar era. I certainly like its sound, but it's kind of a chore to play, despite having a replacement action. On page 1 of that 19 year old thread you typed out a price list with the model numbers; these Horniman folks should really hang around here more!

Mine is 34305. I'm truly puzzled why the ledgers website doesn't have every scrap of info in the world by now...

I'm still confused, the only pricelists close to my 1936 are from 1910/1947 and just mention Class A or Class 4A, nothing about 55/R.

I figured 55 shillings would be off the mark. Sounds like documenting what all these codes are would make for a worthy collaborative project here.

I found my 30 button 1936 anglo - I was interested to see that it's a week older than my mother, RIP. On its entry it says 55|R. Rosewood, I assume, was 55 the sales price? Why doesn't the ledger page have an index for all these terms?

He trained in Castlefidaro. Box players tell me he's quite good. He's not set up with all of the kit for working on 'tinas, no, but I just want a couple of reeds swapped around. Anyway, it seems that's almost certainly unfeasible anyway: From this thread. So I'll probably just have my guy convert it to C#/C# with blob of solder.

I could,but then I'd lose the D#, I like having that note on tap. I was hoping someone familiar with Wheatstones could tell me if the reeds could easily be exchanged. I've an accordion repairman nearby who would work on it. He fixed a couple of wobbly notes on my Jeffries duet.

This gives me hope, I have a Wheatstone and want the C#/D# notes in the 2nd octave reversed. Should I be able to simply have the reeds swapped? It's a 30s instrument.