LR71

I read somewhere that Sabra Daly of Oakland plays G/D. Her husband Peter Heelan plays the pipes. They've been at it since the 70s.

Nice job on those Frost jigs. Were you playing one of your own, Frank? Nice to see Al play Sliabh na mBan, too. Al's father Leo was a piper as well. I like telling people a story I heard about how Al would fly through some bit of dance music, when he was done Leo would just shake his head and ask "Do you have a train to catch?". 😄

Hi Papa, It was a Kensington.

I'm at work and just have headphones, so difficult to tell which one you sold me...#5?

I'd play the G2BG dGBG bit with the Gs on the push, to get around that. Or the G that shows up later. Pulling those Gs is asking for trouble. Regarding what SIMON said about wind instruments, when the bellows is out a mile/km I sometimes substitute a note or two with a rest, slam the air button, and push things back together. This is something I adopted from playing the wooden flute, where it's done as a matter of course. In classical music it's what they chew you out for on day 1. I don't know if anyone else does this. I think I do hear the odd WHOOSH sans music on some recordings.

Some call constantly using the air button to keep things where they should be "feathering". There are those pesky tunes that pull or push forever, and you have to work your way out of that corner. Regarding control, I just try to move the bellows as little as possible, focusing on keeping it within the same small area. That makes much more of a difference for me than angle of sides, strap tightness, etc.

Chris used the G row for the keys of G and D, mostly ignoring the C row, except in cases where it would be awkward to not do so, such as the two part jig the Geese in the Bog. That's the crux of the matter. Dan's book goes into much more detail, far more in fact than what can be found in print on the cross fingering approach. The Droneys keep this method of playing alive, also Florence Fahy. I've monkeyed around with it some, certain things are definitely easier, like tunes that bounce from D to F# to A and back; or the Lark in the Morning, you can push BGB BdB to make up for the pulling you were doing before.

32 button C/G, bone air button and drone C, Bb/Bb button on left and right I think (friend's instrument). I thought this had two serial numbers at first, one on each side: 188102 and 122102, as the left side stamp has 122 in one pan and 102 in the next, markings are faint, the last digit is crammed into a corner. But I think what looked like 188 is just a more forcibly stamped 122. Stamped J.CRABB/EST 1890/etc on the bottom of one of the pans. What is considered the golden age of Lachenal?

Sold.

Sorry, I meant the Wolverton, they make their own reeds for their advanced model. Added Robin's instrument.

BUMP Up for sale once more. Note that I'm trimming $500 from what I paid originally; also I had lighter springs installed. So it's priced to move, I hope.

Wolverton has a page with a bunch of layouts, fwiw. Don't know if there's anything unique there. I was wondering about this topic and searched for info, and only stumbled on this thread by accident. Maybe it should be at the front of the site, like how melodeon.net's intro page has the layout pages right on the left sidebar.

Added Roger's instruments. Is the Marcus a hybrid?

Added that little Edgley. Does it have traditional reeds? Actually, all other things being equal, which weighs more - hybrid or trad?

Thanks Alex. Perhaps other makers will chime in. That's interesting that Suttner would changeover like that, what players were asking for I'd reckon. Also interesting that Jeffries somehow slapped together a 45 button that only weighed 1.5 kg. Perhaps after 38 it's mostly in the piccolo range?

Curious about how much we're lugging around, I put together a table of weights. These are from posts here, and Suttner's website. I rounded up to the nearest .1 kg, and converted kg to lbs. Usually no specifics are given, in particular whether it has metal or wood ends, so just rough estimates. And weight isn't everything. Still, I hope this is of interest. Carroll 30 key C/G 1.1 kg 2.4 lbs Dipper Merlin 36 Key C/G 1.5 kg 3.3 lbs Dipper Singswell 36 Key D/G 1.7 Kg 3.8 lbs Edgley 30 key Bb/F 1.4 kg 3.2 lbs Edgley Heritage Anglo 1.5 kg 3.3 lbs Edgley 24 key C/G 7 fold metal 1.3 kg 2.9 lbs Edgley 30 button 7 fold G/D 1.4 kg 3.1 lbs Flying Duck Duckling, 20-button G/D hybrid, wooden ends, 6-fold bellows 1.1kg 2.4 lbs Flying Duck Duckling, 22-button Bb/F hybrid, wooden ends, 7-fold bellows 1.2 kg 2.6lbs Irish Concertina Co Silver Eiru 31 key C/G Wooden ends 7 fold Bellows 1.3 kg 2.9 lbs Kensington 1.4 kg 3.1 lbs Marcus de-luxe 30 key G/D wood/metal ends, 7-fold bellows 1.4kg 3.1 lbsMorse Ceili 1 kg 2.2 lbs Norman 32 Key C/G 1.2 kg 2.7 lbs Suttner rosewood/metal 1.3 kg 2.9 lbs Suttner TC Rosewood Ends 1.2 kg 2.7 lbs Suttner A4 38 Button Metal Ends 1.5 kg 3.4 lbs Wolverton 30 key C/G wood/metal ends 7 fold bellows 1.4kg 3.1 lbs Wolverton 40 key C/G metal ends 7 fold bellows concertina reeds 1.6 kg 3.5 lbs Old table of Anglo weights (almost all vintage instruments) And for good measure, some button diameters: Standard classic size was 3/16" 4.7mm. Metal buttons often 3/16" too, but if bone 6mm or 1/4" 6.35mm Some Linotas 5.7mm Irish Concertina Co 5mm metal capped Kensington 6.35 I play a Kensington, thus that last.

Planxty O'Reilly is actually a quite chipper major key tune in 6/8, also from the pen of T O'C. This number is likewise attributed to him, printed in 1842 as an "air or planxty." This sounds a titch like the Hills of Coore, too.

This is a super old topic, but I thought this was worth bringing up: And then there's this comment on the session.org from "CAG" = Chris Ghent = "Fan/lift. If you have the folds together you will find you can fan the concertina open without pulling on the straps by rolling the active end out and down using only the heel (the part directly back from your little finger) of your hand. You can lift it closed the same way with the heel of your hand. The part of the hand under the junction of the index finger and the palm does not do the work. That leads to the flappy thing. The person who showed me this (Hugh Healey) demonstrated he could play the concertina this way without his hand in the strap. When you do this almost all of your hand is uninvolved in the rhythm process and is free to play in a relaxed fashion. When large parts of your hand are trying to hold a flappy thing steady then you can’t have relaxed fingers for the melody. Incidentally, as another exercise, Hugh made me loosen the straps to the point where they were essentially useless, forcing me to get control of the active end with the heel of my hand and the passive end with the side of my thumb." So you have two great players in the same genre giving wholly contradictory advice. Hugh is also a "backwards" player - right side on right knee, left in the air. So much for regimented methodology. If you're unfamiliar with him cue up some footage. Again - great player. Indeed I think cramming one and only one way of making music on an instrument down students' throats is downright destructive. I'm giving full time fanning a shot after trying everything else and finding that it helps immensely in keeping the music going. What would be ideal of course would simply be a demonstration of all these ways of getting the reeds to go, who uses what, their pros and cons. There are plenty more factors in how to just play Irish music - other genres have their own goals and requirements.

Thanks for these replies! I really hear the Wheatstone sound listening to Noel Hill or Chris Droney, and younger players too of course. But it's good to have it confirmed (not that there was much doubt in my mind) that other factors can play a large role - especially Frank's note about the shape of the reed. Do your concertinas sound Linota-ish, Frank? I've only ever played a hybrid. Have you taken other steps to get a different, more unique sound? And to be clear, I love the sound of any concertina - but the Wheatstones' really put out that nasality. I play other instruments and I'm sure if I thought about it I could come up with some good analogies - Fender vs Gibson electric guitar comes to mind.

This is a super obvious difference between types of anglos, and one which I've maybe placed too much emphasis on - I don't care for the Wheatstone sound, both from records, and personal experience, as I own one, and have played a good few Carrolls. The word nasal says it all. If it were all there were I'd just accept it as what concertinas sound like, but my Kensington and other makes I've tried have a less piercing or bracing tone. I assumed this was mostly due to the reed pan shape, but I've been reading up on what builders have to say and it doesn't really seem to be a big factor to them - they're much more prone to discuss materials, taper of reeds, volume/taper of pans, vents (whatever a vent in a reed is - still haven't figured that out), etc etc. So, is pan shape a big deal? Could you make a radial pan instrument with a Jeffries-esque tone? Like I said this is the first thing I look for - since videos often have such lousy sound it's hard to tell what you're hearing. And I figured radial = nasal, thus don't bother. I warned a friend about buying a Lachenal, assuming it would have that sound. Surprise surprise, it's pretty nice, sonically. But now I learn that they were sometimes built with parallel pans... maybe that's what that one has. This except from Wakker's website is curious, too = "The tonal differences are subtle. The radial design tends to sound "warmer" or "rounder" whereas the parallel design is a little more "direct" with a little "bite"." Which leaves out anything regarding the nasality, which seems impossible to ignore.

Looks like this same gizmo was discussed here 11 years ago. Note damage to fretwork near hand rests, or matching letters on buttons. Wonder if the poster from back then is the current seller.

Hayden actually developed his system by taking a Jeffries duet and moving reeds around. As it happens it worked. Being a player of jazz tunes on the "free bass" accordion (left side is single notes instead of preset chords) I bought a Jeffries duet, having read that they're suitable for complex chording. I don't find this daunting or forever baffling - the shapes of guitar chords are rather off the wall, too. You memorize chords and scales, and after a while it gets lodged into memory. What really helped, interestingly enough, was to stop looking at the keyboard layout. But then I'm an ear learner. Some jazzy Jeffries players: The World in a Box fellow is great, and plays quite a few jazz tunes. There's a husband and wife on YouTube, she sings and he provides backing. Sorry I can't remember their names. I picked up my Jeffries Bros for cheap - only $3k. This is a spendy instrument. I'd save up and get an inexpensive hybrid, dip your toes into the water.

Mine arrived yesterday, also sans booklet, I also wrote them, also saying that I'd be happy with a computer file. We'll see what happens.

My first concertina, after playing the box for some years, was a brass reeded Lachenal; I figured they were a big company, I don't have to have steel. Well, what a chore to get music out of that thing I figured out the scales at least; and then basically broke a few notes trying to make it work better. A few years later I bought a Kensington, almost as an impulse purchase - the seller had cut the price a few times. And have been at it ever since. Really stumbled onto something grand. I've played Carrolls and Suttners, and they left nothing to be desired playability wise; but mine is simply the cream of the crop tonally. Notes never fail to speak perfectly, either. I really prefer the Kensington's big delrin buttons, too; and Dana's general philosophy of building something that won't crack, that can be taken apart easily, that's free of extra added decor that jacks the price up, to make an instrument that's affordable to as many as possible. And the strap system, where you can adjust the tension in seconds so your friend can give it a try. Adjusting conventional straps makes me think of those pit crews at the Indy 500, getting the tires off the things ASAP... I've been thinking that it'd be nice to have a G/D eventually, and figured I'd do business with Dana again - he's been very helpful with advice and repairs - reed swap, new handrests. Shame to see you go! But you gotta do what you gotta do.

$20, and $15 shipping to the states, youch. Glad it's on the shelves again of course, just ordered my copy, and thanks for bringing this to our attention!