cboody

Hasn't Roy Whitely already pretty much done this?? http://www.accordionmagic.com/Video.html

From a slight personal experience I reckon cboody is worthy of trust. I'd be very surprised indeed if you find the deal anything less than excellent. Pete. Thanks Pete. I hope your statement is true. I think it is anyway! And Shas: Let me know if I should try to track the thing. I would assume it should have made it to you by now unless all delivery is by dog sled...even in the summer!

Funny. It's easy for me. Of course I play it on Hammered Dulcimer

Hmm. Lots of interesting things above. I hope my comments below help folks to understand the capabilities of notation software and other related things and are NOT viewed as an attack on this particular writer. I'm not meaning the comments in that way at all. My apologies in advance if it seems that way. Let's take the paragraphs in order from the top: 1) a) I've never seen a rag where the syncopations were particularly difficult to notate. Yes, like any other style the intricacies of the playing style can be problematic to put on the page, but go look at the Joplin rags. Notation is not an issue there, though performance style is. b)Good notation software can do things far more complex than you might think. It has no trouble with things like 1&1/2 / 4 time (which I can even write out correctly here. If the question is whether notation can accurately represent a player's performance or whether transcribers can agree on how to notate something I can agree with you that it is very difficult. But I don't think that is relevant to the rest of the discussions here. It is an interesting issue that many folks, particularly ethnomusicologists, have spent considerable effort on. An equally interesting discussion among those same folks is whether notation should attempt to accurately represent the detail of a performance or merely a close approximation of it. We can have those discussions if someone wishes, but not here. 2) a) There is actually a movement of a Beethoven Symphony score written out in ABC and there are many examples of polyphonic music from the Renaissance and some examples of Bach pieces. ABC can do this. I wouldn't choose to do so, but it can do it. If one views ABC as a tool for quick transmission of notated music (my view and one expressed by others above) your argument about waiting for ABC to be as popular as regular notation seems rather useless. Still you are welcome to the opinion. I just can't agree with it. 3)BOY HAVE YOU GOT THIS RIGHT. All of this discussion is beside the main point. ABC and notation and listening and lessons are just ways to discover the keys to ANY musical style. Anyone who sees any of those things as either useless or the be all end all is, in my not at all humble opinion, missing the point. 4)Your argument here shows, I think, a lack of awareness of the various tools you denigrate. Even ABC has ways to represent micro-tones, glissandi, and lots of other things needed to represent on paper the music of other cultures and of contemporary art music. Programs like Finale and Sibelius do even more with that, including among many other things the ability to represent patterns of notes that gradually increase or decrease in tempo. MIDI contains all the commands to play this sort of thing too. None of those tools are limited to 12 note scales in common rhythms. So, the tools can probably do the work if the users can properly use them and know what they want to "say". Your last sentence though, remarking that it is silly to argue about which tool is best is, I think, spot on even though the justification you decided to use might be wrong. In sum: Seems to me you might not have all the knowledge about the tools but you have fine and accurate attitudes about what is important in music. Would that everyone had that!!! Bravo to you. I hope these comments are helpful in clearing the air, and don't just add to the mud!!!

I looked up my copy, and found the tune there under the name Random, and with this comment. The Collingwood manuscript is held at Beamish Museum. Interesting. Thanks for the info.

EasyABC comes close to Barfly, but still misses some things. On the other hand it is still growing and improving. Each new version adds more capabilities and it handles some things (multipart music and songs with words for example) much better than Barfly. And, it has an incipit creator which works quite well though there still seem to be a couple of small bugs. Phil Taylor (Barfly) has said no update to it for Lion OS, though I heard one faint rumor that he might be reconsidering. I haven't written him to find out though.

Get Greg Jowasias to build you a case for it and carry it to your heart's content...

I think we can all agree that abc is an efficient way to "store" a tune, and that it is easy to put abc into a message like this. Where folks seem to get bent out of shape is turning that abc into standard notation. Yeah, Tune-o-tron is great but you have to cut and paste. Here's a very nice solution: Go to http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/26527/comments#comment561298 and try that out. You may need to read a couple of other messages in order to understand what to do. Essentially just create a bookmark in your web browser, go to edit the bookmark, rename it as you wish, and replace the URL with the code mentioned in the message. You've created a "bookmarklet." Put reference to the bookmarklet somewhere easy to get at. I have it in the list of things on the top of the Firefox page. Now, when you come to some abc (assuming it is complete) just copy it and choose the bookmarklet. It will automagically copy what you selected, go to tune-o-tron, paste in the abc, and create the notation. Really quick and very helpful. Yeah, it doesn't always work because of poorly formed abc from time to time, but almost always it does. Quick and easy. And, if you want to use abc on your computer check out EasyABC which works on all platforms, and wraps around abcm2ps so that you see on the screen exactly what you are going to get and around abc2midi so you can hear things. Transposition and other things built in. Lilypond is interesting and complex. abcm2ps with format files can do almost everything much easier. Check out http://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/easyabc/ for EasyABC and http://abcplus.sourceforge.net/ for a huge PDF file explaining all the capabilities of abc with abcm2ps. If you've read all that and tried it and still want to use Lilypond be my guest. I tried it and found the complexities not worth the effort for traditional tunes. As to Sibelius: well I use Finale for complex things like full concert band arranging, but would not use it for much else. Sibelius falls in the same category. As to getting things from Sibelius to abc: I think Sibelius can create XML files. EasyABC will read an xml file and instantly turn it into abc (and display the result so you can check for errors. Hope this helps. I've a rather large background in all of this, having been at one time president of the Association for Technology in Music Instruction (primarily college professors), a beta tester for version 1 of Finale, and a developer of my own music software back in the dark ages. I also helped train the guy who is still (I think) the main support programmer for Finale. All this doesn't mean you have to agree though. Horses for courses as someone remarked. Different strokes too.

I have a Rochelle (version 1) which is, I think, in like new condition. Drop me a PM if interested in discussing it. I think you'll find the price good.

Err.... Are you sure it is an RTF file? RTF is usually, as the name implies, a format for text and not for sound... It is quite possible you got a message sent in RTF format to which some sort of sound file is attached. Take another look.

We don't snipe on concertina.net! We may enquire robustly from time to time though. I wondered that, I've not seen chords for this tune before. Of course some bits of ABC software will generate chords for the current tune at the push of a button but they aren't usually that great in my opinion. They are not my chords, but were included with the tune in a couple of abc sources. I don't like them much here and there. In the more recently posted pdf I certainly don't like the Em E7 A7 business. Much to jarring for my ears. But, chords are chords. I did a book of tunes for a celtic group (whatever that is) a while back (a group with far too many guitar players ), and the one thing I said I would not do is figure out chords. I put in whatever was there or made only the least effort to get right chords. Sure enough a couple of the guitar players were really upset. We redid things with their chords (some of which made no sense at all to my ears) and everyone was happy...including me since I don't play with the group with any regularity

I reckon that's why we use that "abc" camouflage - just preparing for illegality... More scandalous than ever! Oh, the shame of it all! Just be glad we learned our abcs

Well, where do I begin? My main source of information is the Northumbrian Piper's Society but I would doubt that they would consider themselves 'unimpeachable'. You may find two of their publications mildly interesting. The Northumbrian Piper's Tune Book (reprinted and enlarged from a 1936 edition) contains the tune 'Random' although to be fair they don't say which new tunes were added in the reprints. The Fiddle Tunes of James Hill, published by the Northumbrian Piper's contains all of the tunes known to have been written by James Hill and some traditional ones which he played regularly and made popular. The introduction also comments on the number of tunes attributed to him which were doubtful and therefore not included. This is the first time I've heard of Random being attributed to James Hill, the three copies I have are simply marked Trad or not at all. Perhaps we should leave it there eh? Unless of course you have an unimpeachable source naming James Hill as the composer. Well, my previous comment was definitely tongue in cheek too! And, I'm embarrassed to say the I own the Northumbrian Pipers Tune book(s) and there was Random. I've avoided them for some time because they have (reasonably enough) moved some tunes to keys convenient for the Northumbrian piper, and I wanted to avoid having to relearn tunes in other keys. I guess I should revisit them.... I've no "less impeachable" sources than those you quote. References on thesession, references from a friend who avidly collects tunes and information about them, and a few other such things. I take it Random is not included in the collection of Hill's tunes the NPA published. I wonder if it is in "The Lads Like Beer," which is the other collection mentioned (and apparently POP)

It is a page from a Concertinas at Witney workshop pack some years ago, so it would have been distributed only to those going there that year. I am sure I have a typed up version somewhere and will try to find it over the weekend., You could also try previous ICA music supplements. regards John Thanks John, I'll see what I can find.

It is known as Will Atkinson's tune. Alistair Anderson learned it From Will Atkinson, who remembered the tune from about 70 years earlier. As he could not recall a name for it, Alistair gave it the name it is now known by. It is the second tune on the page attached here. - John Wild Nice tune: Is the collection you pulled the page from generally available? If so, I'd certainly like a copy. I'll be happy to convert it to abc too if that would be useful.

[pedant]Point of order, the tune is called Random. I'm not sure when it started to be called Random Notes but that name has even crept into some printed collections now.[/pedant] Random is a great tune and I have always found it challenging on the EC, for me the B part is the toughest bit by far to play fluently. I have no idea what difficulties it offers the anglo player but I'm sure you'll have great fun playing it and a well deserved sense of achievement the first time you get through it without a mistake. I'm an EC player. Only mentioned the Anglo because I wanted to indicate I had no clue about the issues on that instrument. Pedantry replied to in the other post I will accept your statement though if you got the information from some unimpeachable source

I'm not out of joint! (Nose or otherwise) I looked around for the tune and found 2 versions which differ essentially in the C section. What you have here is the "other" version and is indeed closer to what is played on the video. I've no way of knowing which is "right" so I picked the one I enjoyed more. I'm glad to see the other one here also. I'm playing it both ways. Look carefully at the chords in the one I posted too. You may not like some of them at all. As to the title: There is some reference at thesession.org that it is called "Random Jig" as well as "Random Notes," "The Random," and "Random." Do I care? Well I'm a musicologist, so of course I care, but once I take off that hat "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn." How many Gan Amin tunes do you know? Does it really bother you that they don't have a name? Probably only when someone asks you the name. The version on thesession is the one quoted in this note and not the one I first posted. The tune is by James Hill a 19th century fiddler, apparently of Scottish descent, but living much of his life in Tyneside. That probably explains the Northumbrian connection.

The thread about MacCann instruments had reference to a youtube video of this tune. Really quite wonderful. I don't know how it would fit on an Anglo, but it certainly has a nice lift! X: 1 T:Random Notes M:6/8 L:1/8 Q:120 S:THSP R:jig K:Dmaj "D"~d3 fed|"A"cea ecA|"G"~B3 efg|"A"Bed cBA| "D"~d3 fed|"A"cea ecA|"G"BAB efg|"A"Bec "D"d2:| |:"D"DFA FAd|Adf dfa|afa "G"geg|"D"fdf "A"ecA| "D"DFA FAd|Adf dfa|"G"dcB fed|"A"cdB ~A3:| |:"D"a^ga "G"b^ab|gfg "A"a^ga|"D"dcd efg|"G"Bed "A"cBA| "D"a^ga "G"b^ab|"A"gfg "D"a^ga|dcd "G"efg|"A"Bec "D"d2A:|| Random Notes.pdf

I just got my Edeophone (EC Tenor/Treble) back from Greg. He did many little things (tuning and leaks) and did them well, but the big changes were new thumb straps, a thorough cleaning of the metal end plates and, most important, a lightening of the action on the whole instrument. That change is remarkable. It has probably increased my playing speed by a good 20 beats per minute. Some difficult things just became easy. I didn't know that sort of adjustment could be done but it can and Greg did a beautiful job. He built me a new case too that is lovely and will properly protect the instrument. Throughout the project he communicated carefully with me to assure I got the instrument back when I needed it and to tell me how things were going. When his computer went down he called me about details. When one thing was not right when I got the instrument he was mortified, and talked me through the simple fix. When I accidentally sent him too big a check he let me know and returned the difference. In short a fine repair job carried out with great care and attention to detail. I had the instrument worked on years ago by a shop that will remain nameless and the results were much less satisfying. If you need work done (in the US) I could not recommend a person more. He also refurbishes and sells used instruments and after what he did for mine I'd certainly recommend him as a source. The prices are good too. And, I seldom write this sort of message and nobody's asked me to or paid me to write it. I'm just so well satisfied I thought others would like to know. Chuck Boody

Tempting 'Tina

Check out Very nice EC playing in most of the samples on the demo. I especially like the first and last items

Nice tune. What is the rhythm of the last bar of part 1? F2 B4 d2 c2 B2 or maybe F2 B4 d2 cdcB ???

I took a look at the pdf. With some playing around I could recreate it in 600 (maybe 1200) dot per inch tiff (huge) or jpg (smaller and probably no loss) or even gif files. Those files would be expanded in size to remove the edges (made to fit 8.5X 11 paper -- I think A size would manage that well), straightened, and adjusted to give something close to a black and white image that would be much clearer. The end result could be put back into a pdf for easy use by folks. It would take me at least a couple of hours to do this, but if there is enough interest I'd be willing to try it...AFTER I get back from a trip on May 1. Indicate your interest here and I'll check back around that date.

This is a nice collection. I've noticed that some of the pages are a bit underexposed (giving a grey background that is sometimes dark enough to be a problem)and that the jpg format is not the most convenient of formats. I might be able to clean up the hard work already done by others and turn the whole thing into a couple of fairly clean pdf files. I've got a pretty full plate at the moment, but would be willing to try to do this if there is enough interest in having it done and if someone can host the result.

This is all true, but it comes sort of automatically, due to the fact that meantone tunings make most sense on diatonic instruments. If you have a D/G instrument, you won't be playing anything in C, so taking F or C as your starting pitch wouldn't make any sense, quite apart from the musical genre you'll be playing. And with an Bb/F instrument, you won't be playing with D-G-centric traditionalists, so Bb as your starting pitch won't be an issue. The instrument should simply be "meaned" to its own keys. Agreed, but my understanding, at least at the beginning of the discussion, was that we were discussing EC here. You're spot on with anglos, and could make a good argument for using meantone with them (at least to me!) As to autoharp: I think you are right there too. But, with a chromatic harp the issues still exist. Of course that may be part of the reason most pros play diatonic harps.