Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Atzarin

  1. Ha, ha, ha! Not really sure what a café cubano in a demitasse is but do hope you enjoyed it!
  2. Thanks Alex_holden! I'll refer back to here the next time I need it. However, that surely isn't the normal way to use the quote function, is it? It seems a bit round about, as it were. Anyway, thanks for giving me a solution.
  3. I've just had problems using the quote function. If I am writing a post and want to include a quote from a previous post how do I go about it. I clicked on the Qoute function and then copied and pasted text from another post into the box that appeared. This is evidently not the way to do it as the quoted person's name did not appear. Got round it in the end by clicking quote on the post I wanted to quote and then deleting the bits that I didn't need and building my message around the quote! Completely crazy! Please help! I use Safari on a Mac, by the way.
  4. On bisonoric systems, using only 1 symbol means marking or not marking every single note. Only repeated notes on the same keys and in the same bellows direction do not receive any marking (or deliberate non-marking). I feel that marking every note, whether using a line or a symbol, creates clutter. If fingering is indicated, a circle around the finger number can indicate opening bellows. This is used in some Trikitixa (Basque diatonic accordion) schools. These symbols already exist for stringed instruments in music notation programs, Using 2 symbols on bisonoric systems means marking bellows inversions. No notes after the inversion need be marked until the next inversion. This reduces clutter, although on an instrument or a playing style that uses a lot of push/pull playing technique, the staff will become rather busy. On bisonoric systems, using 3 symbols again means paying attention to each and every note. On a unisonoric instrument (bearing in mind that the OP was for EC), if it's somehow important to indicate "whichever direction you want", I'd agree with JimLucas's comment that, On the bandoneon, playing anything from 2 to 8 bars in the same direction of the bellows after an inversion is normal, so the staff remains uncluttered. On the Atzarin bandoneon, having every note repeated in the opposite direction of the bellows, means that whole phrases can be played either on the draw or on the push. I am currently assigning bellows direction based on the chord, as each kind of chord has either 1 shape both push and pull or 2 different shapes, where the most comfortable form, and consequently its bellows direction, is given priority. However, there are some cases where it's really difficult to decide which is the more comfortable. It is tempting, in these cases, on this kind of instrument, to think that a symbol for "whichever direction you want" would be useful. In practice though, having this option is only good when preparing a piece for the first time. The learner must try a particular phrase both push and pull and make their own choice. After choosing though, I think it's better to mark the decision as either opening or closing. So one thing is indications for a learner and another is one's own indications as reminders as to how you play the piece.
  5. Although the system the OP describes is encountered time and time again in different works, it is not a generally accepted notation system. What I didn't know is that they are bowing symbols. I don't like them as I don't find them very easy to remember! On top of that, I would find it more logical if the symbols were the same but reversed, such as ⎤and ⎡ for open and close respectively, as used in "Manual de composición para acordeón" by Isidro García Pintos. I used to prefer < for opening as it reminds me of the direction the bellows hand moves in to open the bellows and > as its logical opposite. As I now play a bandoneon family instrument, with both hands moving with the bellows I started using <> for opening and >< for closing. However, these are a slight pain when writing by hand and I have simplified them to O for opening and X for closing. The O is not the O of Opening but the rounded shape of <>. Other symbols suggested in the previous post seem too fiddly to me, requiring special input on the keyboard and are not accepted by ABC.
  6. Hey, very nice! I put up a link to my own attempt to play Misty on the Atzarin bandoneon on a different thread a few weeks ago. I hope you don't mind me putting it here too: It's nice to see other people trying out jazz versions of the same piece on related instruments. I had previously done a video of Over the Rainbow. In the pipeline are All of Me, Fly me to the Moon and Autumn Leaves. Please publish more jazz concertina videos! Oh! I've just seen the related posts section below. I'll check them out now.
  7. Excellent answer bando_guy! The last link in the list of dealers/restorers etc that you posted in another thread was really interesting. I didn't know of FuellesdesSur. Thanks for posting!
  8. The link given in the message from bando_guy doesn't work. You need to take off the "/" at the end. Also check out the Taipei Accordion Bandonion Center on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bandoneon/ You won't find anything decent in the 100 - 300 dollars range. More like 1000 - 3000 dollars, will fetch something playable. Chemnitzer is the German name for that kind of instrument. Sounds different from a bandoneon as they usually have aluminium reed plates, not zinc, and can have 3 or even 4 reeds per note, with tremolo, where the reeds are tuned a few cents apart. Chemnitzers have just three rows of buttons on the right hand and the overall appearance is much flashier than a bandoneon. Good luck!
  9. Here's the latest video documenting my learning journey on the Atzarin bandonion: https://youtu.be/qVSM7MwyBn4 The music is the A part of an AB structured Tango Waltz by Anibal Troilo in an arrangement by the superb bandoneonist Rodolfo Mederos. Unfortunately I haven't got the whole piece up to scratch for a video yet, but I needed the first part to exemplify using the thumb on the 3rd, outer row, of buttons. Several accordionists have shown interest in the possibility of using the thumb on all three rows of buttons and my intention in the video is to show that it is possible and comfortable. It is also my intention to show traditional bandoneonists that the thumb can be used in playing technique on the Atzarin bandonion whilst still maintaining a good grip on the instrument.
  10. Here's another video of my attempts on the Atzarin bandonion, playing standing up in order to demonstrate the grip and control the Esku Aske grips give over the instrument. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FWYRglucg8 After murdering "Misty", by Errol Garner, I give a few rudimentary explanations about preparing to play a score and dealing with "extreme" notes, the 3 notes that are not repeated in the other direction of the bellows at each end of the keyboard. The bellows reversals in the bars leading up to and out of the bars containing these kinds of notes require special planning and may require notes to be assigned to each hand differently from the score, particularly when using a score written for piano or a lead sheet. I've set myself the goal of producing a new video every 2 or 3 weeks explaining different aspects of the Atzarin bandonion and documenting my solitary learning process. At the moment, this instrument is unique, as there is only 1 in existence! So, it really is a lonesome journey I've embarked on. In the past I've been really impressed by the efforts of other, squeeze box players, who really can play their instruments, to blog about their progress with frequent and regular updates. Although I'd love to be able to do the same, I don't really have the time to blog, so these YouTube clips will have to suffice.
  11. The Atzarin bandonion project had been at an impasse for about three years, but has now moved forward. http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_bandoneon_reshaped.html I have now put together a video, with errors and all, to show how the new grips work. The video is not to show any musical ability as I'm little more than a beginner. The idea is to show that it is possible to use the thumbs for playing technique whilst still maintaining a firm hold on the instrument without losing position on the buttons in chops or arrastres. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2HPoTuidL4 Regards, Sebastian Brown Apraiz www.atzarin.com
  12. Back in January 2011 I posted some links to information about the Atzarin Bandonion. In spite of it not being possible to bring out the new prototype in the time desired, development and improvement have moved ahead. Information about this work and development towards an optimum Atzarin bandoenon is available at: Stage 4 - Improvements in grip and stability. http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_4.html Stage 5 _ Current development for optimum Atzarin Bandonion http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_5.html Recent photos in the following links may be of particular interest to people who are skeptical about using the thumb to play notes and/or doubtful about the grip and control on the instrument: Playing broadly voiced chords http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_broad_chords.html Atzarin bandonion comfort and playability http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_comfort_playability.html There are also recent photos in the following updated pages: Atzarin bandonion overview http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_bandoneon_reshaped.html Atzarin bandonion hold and stability http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html Regards, Sebastian Brown Apraiz www.atzarin.com
  13. Some photos of the unfinished Atzarin bandonion prototype can now be seen on the Atzarin website. The photos clearly show the shape of the new button arcs and hand rail and the shape and position of the air valve lever which is to be tested on the instrument over the next few weeks. http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/instruments.html By the way, Michael, I'll be in the UK with the Atzarin bandonion prototype at the end of April, first in South London and later in Ipswich, so we could arrange to meet if you're interested in having a go on it! Sebastian
  14. Some photos of the unfinished Atzarin bandonion prototype can now be seen on the Atzarin website. Although the work is incomplete, the photos give a very good idea of what the instrument actually looks like. Most pages with photos have a photo at the top of the page and at the botton, so make sure you scroll down if you want to see all the photos. Links to pages with photos: http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_3.html http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_button_arcs.html http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_button_arcs_dimensions.html http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_2.html
  15. Many thanks for the comments! I came across the Blake System a couple of years after deciding to go ahead with Atzarin and actually quite liked it. The thing I didn't like about it was the "depth" of the keyboard, 6 rows if I remember rightly, and how this might need the hand to be moved back and forth slightly or the fingers to be bent a lot, possibly resulting in discomfort in the hand depending on the type of strap. I cannot recall whether it made use of a hand strap, as on a bandoneon or a wrist strap, like on the left hand of an accordion or on a hybrid bandonion. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any were commercially produced either. Another system I really like is the Hugo Stark Chromatiphon layout. I came across it on the internet after a few years of "mental exercise", scribbling out layouts on every other page of diaries etc, when I realised that there was a fair amount of information available on the web. It is the only layout that tempted me to give up in my moments of despair in the search for a system that convinced me and I very nearly bought a second hand from a dealer in Germany. As with the Blake System a few years later, the problem I had with it was the "depth" of the keyboard as well as the distance between whole tones. The years of frustrating arranging and rearranging of notes, in my mind, on paper and on my accordion, in search of a more uniform bisonoric system similarly led me to believe that isomorphism is overrated, particularly in small instruments. However, although overrated, I do feel that it has some advantages even when the isomorphism is not 100%, due to wrap around edge effects etc. Bisonority can help to reduce the impact of edge effects. As for 12 tone equal temperament, I cannot really give an opinion as my aim was to create a layout that was easier to learn and more versatile than my diatonic accordion layout, but using mainstream technology and tuning. Beacause of my passion for dancing Argentinian tango I came across bandoneon and came to think that the bandoneon format has several advantages over the accordion. I'm rather surprised you had trouble viewing the web site on your 1440 x 900 pixel screen. The body of the web pages is 1024 x 768 so it should fit no problem. In any case, in view of your and Ceemonster's comments I have enabled scrolling as a solution for the time being. The left hand mirrors the right in that the same patterns and shapes are played with the same fingering on both hands, simply because to my mind and fingers it seems and feels easier. Bear in mind that in order to play the very broadly voiced chords that are typical of the traditional bandoneon, on the Atzarin layout the use of the thumb is essential. http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_broad_chords.html Originally, coming from diatonic accordion, I designed the layout to be played with just 4 fingers. However, becoming aware of bandoneon voicings and seeing some amazing CBA technique on Youtube led me to start using the thumb and design a new hand rail and strap set up that would allow the use of the thumb whilst still enabling a firm grip on the instrument, as I mentioned in a previous post. Specifically referring to the left hand, using the thumb to play the fundamental the rest of the fingers can easily and comfortably move well away from the thumb to play much higher notes, either melody or chordal additions. In another thread on this forum there has been some debate in relation to the Wicki/Hayden as to whether the layout should run from "left to right" / "bottom to top" or from "right to left" / "top to bottom". In favour of "bottom to top" the argument held that the little finger (pinky) could be used to play the highest note whilst using the other fingers for the rest of the chord or even to add melody etc. However, even when only using 4 fingers to play, it is much easier to separate the index finger (pointer) with a greater spread from the other three fingers than the little finger from the others. On an Atarin layout, with the notes on the left hand running from "top to bottom" it is very easy to play a low note and add 2 or 3 notes on top from the next octave up. This is particularly comfortable on curved rows, less so on stright rows, as mentioned on the page linked above. As for the semitone tone difference at each button and whether the higher note should be on the draw or the press, both are contemplated, but for production of a real instrument I had to choose one. My intention was to have a layout that was easier to learn and more versatile than the diatonic accordion layout. However, it had to be something that was relatively easy to "migrate" to. The most important thing for me was the fingering. I was coming from Trikitixa, the Basque diatonic accordion, where playing across the rows is normal. In fact, the idea of playing on the row is quiet strange from Trikitixa technique's perspective, as the two rows are seen as one unit, not two separate elements that complement each other. When experimenting I found that having the higher note on the draw allowed a finger style that was more similar to that used on the Trikitixa. However, at that time I was also thinking along the lines of "tonic on the push", as on the Trikitixa, whereas now I do not feel that's the best way to play. On Demian's original accordion, if I'm not mistaken, and on other early bisonoric instrument, the tonic note was on the draw. In any case, I feel that the fact that the Atzarin layout gives you the choice of tonic on the push or draw or both is one of its main strengths.
  16. Thanks for the responses. As I'm new to forums and not yet fully sure of how they work my replies may be presented rather oddly! Sorry. Very grateful for all answers. I wanted to comment on one in particular: Immediately I see a problem with very long row. It's horizontally oriented and requires free hand. A Traditional Bandoneon makes use of fixed wrist that provides force and stability. In your case wrists must slide up and down. Such hybrid exists already, it's Habla Bandoneon, built and played very well. Such layout requires instrument to be unisonoric, as necessary wrist slides may happen on the push and it is compromised by pressing of sticky hand against instrument's side. So you also need to design a wrist strap that is easily sliding up/down. Such swivel has been designed and used on some old accordions, but is prone to sticking and adds to overall cost and complexity/weight. However, with modern technology and materials it probably can be designed better. This question is dealt with, in part, on the Atzarin website at: http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html'>http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html In short, the need to slide the hand is reduced because of the curved rows and the position of the buttons. On the Gabla or hybrid model, the position of the buttons in straight rows at the front of the instrument requires a much bigger slide to reach buttons near either end of any row than when they are positioned on the ends in curves, which allows for rotation of the hand. Front positioned buttons means that the fingers are fully curved and consequently cannot acheive the same spread as when the fingers are only slightly bent as when you drum them on the table top, for example. I say above that the question of the need to slide and the design of the hand rail and strap is dealt with only in part because exact details of the new kind of hand rail are not disclosed. I do not wish to show any diagram of the proposed new hand rail, until it has been finished and fully tested. Please bear in mind that the new prototype, which I expect not to need any further modification, is currently being finished by Harry Geuns. The proposed solution is a differently shaped hand rail and a slighlty different position of the strap, as mentioned on the web page linked above. The hand rail will be flat, but have a curved shape following the curve of the rows of buttons, so that the front edge of the rail is 7.5cm from the centre of each button on the first row. I have tested this to some extent on the current prototype (now undergoing modifaction) and found it to be satisfactory. In case it were not satisfactory I have come up with another possible solution that would permit swivel and slide, but it would be a very radical departure from anything bandoneon like or concertina like. However, I don't think it will be neccessary. When comparing the Atzarin bandonion and the Gabla or hybrid bandonion, which both require sliding the hand in playing technique, it is also important to bear in mind the differet ways in which the instrument is gripped in each case and the position of the hand strap, as I feel that the Atzarin model allows greater stability and control than the Gabla hybrid. Please refer to the web page: http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html Once again, thank you for the comments, whether encouraging or constructively critical! My original intention was to get feedback on the actual layout itself, but any comments on any aspect of the project would be extremely useful and very welcome.
  17. Here are some links to information about a new kind of bandoneon, called Atzarin Bandonion, which may be of interest to people who play Anglo concertina or a duet system concertina. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbeEmJNTR45DXESw5dT-sPQ?spfreload=10 http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_bandoneon_reshaped.html The 3 row layout was originally intended for the treble keyboard of a bisonoric accordion, but it has since been developed on a new kind of bandoneon, specifically designed for this kind of layout. http://atzarin.com/eng/keyboards/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_layout.html Although the best embodiment of this layout is the bandonion format described on the Atzarin web page, I feel that a smaller version could be applied to concertinas. It would be very intersesting to have people who play different types of concertina give their opinion on the layout, particularly bearing in mind the lengthy discussions in other threads on this forum about Duet systems and the possibility of a Wicki/Hayden bandoneon. The idea was to have a completely regular, fully chromatic instrument in both directions of the bellows, that would be neutral or isomorphic. So, the shape of a triad chord is one and the same in any musical key. The same is true of any minor triad chord. 1 scale pattern suffices to play that type of scale in 8 different musical keys, 4 on the draw and 4 on the push. A different scale pattern is needed in the opposite direction of the bellows. In total you only need 3 different scale patterns to play in any key in either direction of the bellows. Transposing is much easier as a tune can be played in a different key with exactly the same fingering and bellows reversals just by starting from a different button in the same row. Musical keys fall into 3 groups of 4, depending on which row the tonic note is on. Transposing to a key from another group is made easier by the fact that very often, motiffs and entire phrase can have the same fingering, but played in the opposite direction of the bellows. Another important consideration was that the fingering style should be comfortable and not completely alien to people coming from conventional diatonic or bisonoric accordions or even Anglo concertinas. Although different, playing technique may feel more familiar to people who play on diatonic accordions with rows separated by quarts than to people who play Irish B/C etc. Although the Atzarin layout requires learning a completely new system, transition is fairly quick and easy. Learning is very rewarding because the layout is 100% regular, so there is less memorisation of chord shapes, scale patterns etc. What should be the definitive bandoneon prototype is currently being built by bandoneon and concertina manufacturer Harry Geuns. The bandoneon model will have traditional style long, zinc reedplates and two voice (MH) bandoneon octave tuning. However, if there is enough genuine interest a dry tremolo tuned (MM) model can be built.
  • Create New...