Geoff Wooff
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Posts posted by Geoff Wooff
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On 10/25/2021 at 5:39 PM, Wendy M. Grossman said:
Geoff: I'm inclined to think you are right that I'd be better off with an instrument that sounds an octave lower than the one I'm contemplating. Or maybe not. I remain confused.
Thanks.
wg
Thinking about this Wendy, is there not someone on this forum wanting to sell a Baritone in Bb ? It is an octave lower than a treble but also the middle two rows give Bb instead of C.
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On 7/27/2021 at 10:50 AM, lindaket said:
Are you sure it was caused just by playing for too long? Is it possible that you had underlying medical issues? Because what you are describing sounds like a carpal tunnel. Definitely go see a doctor if it won't get better.
It has come to this impasse. After suffering minor loss of the sense of touch in my left hand, which I thought was caused by a Stroke in 2012, things have developed into classic symptoms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Time for that visit to my doctor.
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For a lower pitched chordal accompaniment to your voice I would have thought the standard Baritone could be more useful but, as you are used to the Tenor- Treble then the Baritone-Treble might serve you for those few extra notes to complete a chord or run.
Long stretch finger movements are necessary when playing melody and chords together and the thumb strap position on the BT is further forward but aligns with the keyboard one step lower down the scale. This causes a finger position adjustment when swaping from a standard Treble, Tenor Treble or Baritone.
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I have owned a Baritone-Treble 56k Wheatstone Aeola for the last 15 years. It is my usual 'play at home' instrument and I use it in the way described by David Elliot, as a Treble with notes extended down a further octave to use for harmonies and chords below the Treble melody. So, larger 'arrangements' are possible.
The way my instrument is set up, and probably was designed in that way, there is a lovely balance and the lower notes do not drown the mid and upper ranges when used in combination.
I play anything I fancy but small keyboard arrangements are nice, from Bach to Ragtime, through Irish, English and Scottish Trad to Jazz. I'd not say I'm any good at any of them but ......
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This one looks to have metal ends that run right to the outer edges. Looks strong and solid. How would you describe the tone ?
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On 9/24/2021 at 8:33 PM, Bassconcertina.net said:
Come on! Id literally take any bass concertina on the face of the planet at this point. but nobody wants to sell.
You are looking for a Bass ? I know someone who wants to sell one, but I don't think they are currently on this forum. PM for details.
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Taxi ?
Seriously, are you ok ?
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Looks like a Lachenal by the tiny screws that hold the metal ends in place. The Wheatstone version would have the screws on the inside of the frames. Yes the flat buttons and the lip on the outer edge of the finger plate suggest Lachenal.
The Auction notification does not say H.Boyd. An interested bidder would want to see a photo of the right hand fretwork.
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You have been very lucky Jim,
to have played so many years on an old concertina without having to replace a spring!!
I just love it when a spring breaks or a pad comes loose in the middle of a session or a gig, to be expected, of course when using old machinery. Having to replace a spring under less than ideal lighting conditions and without those extra powerful close focus spectacles ! It is a fiddly job better done in comfort at home so , having been caught out once or twice I prefer to carry a spare concertina.
While you have the lid off you might want to check the condition of the other springs, though metal fatigue is not too easy to spot, and look for loose pads that are just waiting for an opportunity to add an unwanted drone to your performance. Finding both parts of the broken spring and adjusting the new spring to the playing pressure you like goes without saying BUT with an old Jeffries I would examine carefully the lever pivot holes which can become quite worn after 100 + years of use.
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I recall when I went back to the Mac Cann after a year on the Hayden I could not play it. Though all the time I had continued to play the English. Perhaps it was a case of these duets being too similar. I've never seriously tried an Anglo but I am happy playing the Chromatic Button Accordéon and the English.
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If you do not have the album of whaling songs recorded by A.L. Lloyd in the 1960's I highly recommend finding a copy ... at least because of the wonderfull concertina playing of Alf Edwards.
Topic Records. TSCD 497
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Having looked at the Button Box site I see at least two concertinas suitable for your needs " as fast as a Model 22 but quieter" The 48k Rosewood ended New Model and the Wheatstone model 8 should fit the bill.
I had a very good New Model as my quieter rocket speed machine which lived in the double case along side my Model 22 and it was just as fast but with a very special tone that comes with the New Model design.
The Model 8 will have the same gentler tone and good action I am sure as my current wooden Aeola version of the model 8 .
And then the 'Brass' reeded , metal ended TT. This looks like a 'Tropicalized' model where a special alloy was used for the reeds to prevent corrosion in difficult climates. There is no reason why this will be any slower as the reeds will be of the finest quality.
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On 8/21/2021 at 7:31 PM, LesJessop said:
I have an ex-Salvation Army Treble English Lachenal in Bb. I bought it about 30 years ago to play along in sessions with Northumbrian pipes, which are usually Bb instruments. The person selling it had several Bb concertinas, including a Bass, which had all apparently come from the same band.
But, not long after buying it I totally drifted away from involvement with Northumbrian pipe music, and have hardly played the concertina since.
Any thoughts on selling that Bb Lachenal ?
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1 hour ago, Randy Stein said:
Why not just learn the various scales and play in those keys. The advantage of the EC, no?
In theory this is the right way but with Irish trad music, where one has imprinted hundreds of tunes into the memory along with a specific style of ornamentation I find it difficult, on the fly, to transpose tunes from G to F or D to C. This means the fingering becomes reversed or 'mirror imaged'.... one would need to learn many of the tunes again.
I did this on one of the 'Tune of the Month' series, the recording is on my Soundcloud page, where I play a tune in seven different keys during one 2 minute take ( Parson's Farewell STE007). But the tune was fairly simple.
To play everything in an Irish session one tone lower would be akin to transposing a Bach Bourrée on the fly, yes it could be done with practice.
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On 8/22/2021 at 1:45 PM, seanc said:
Please excuse my ignorance…
I just don’t know how this works.
are the middle rows tuned to Bb instead of C? So, you would hit what would be a B and a Bb would sound. and then to hit a B you would press a Bb button?
Yes the middle rows would play the scale of Bb, a whole tone lower than normal. So you'd hit what would normally be a B and an A would sound. Re reading your question Seanc, I realize that I was less than clear. I think the Bb tuned EC will have the C scale in Bb , so, all the C buttons will give the note Bb. The complete keyboard will give notes one whole tone lower than normal.
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I noticed recently that Barleycorn Concertinas are advertising a Treble English in Bb and saying Bb tuned EC's are not so uncommon because Salvation Army concertina players often used then to ease playing with their Brass bands. How true this is I do not know because it is not so hellish difficult to play the EC in the Flat keys. Brass band sheet music might of course be written in C when the brass instrument will produce Bb when reading the score. So the sight reading Salvationist does not have to transpose in their head when handed a Brass band score.
This got me thinking about a wee problem that crops up from time to time. I have two major situations for playing the EC with other musicians, one is in Irish traditional sessions and the other with the local 'Bal Trad' band here in France. So, for Irish sessions the keys of G and D and related minors and a normally tuned Treble English is my usual instrument BUT now and again a 'Flat' session is encountered. When a flat session is in C I can transpose G and D to C and F but it is not always easy to remember the fingering even when I can shift position to make the finger patterns similar, flattening Sharps and sharpening Flats. The Anglo players just reach for their Bb/F instrument. If, however I was to utilise an EC tuned a whole tone lower I could enjoy a C session without further difficulties.
With the Bal Trad band where most of the tunes are in C, some in G , and the related minors, I have often felt I'd be happier if the band played in D rather than C. Ok people usually feel that C is the easiest key on the English but it can get tiring when playing for hours in a dance band just using the two central rows. D and A spread the load more naturally over three fingers. So, with a Bb tuned EC I could play the C and G tunes in D and A.
Just how common are these Bb tuned EC's I wonder?
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22 minutes ago, wunks said:
I've been advised by more than one reputable repair person against re-tuning from "old pitch" if possible because the reeds will be compromised to some degree. In my case (Jeff duet) it could be either down to the standard C core or up to D core. Do others agree?
Many ( probably most ) of the vintage concertinas in use today have been re-tuned from one of the old pitch standards. In the UK and USA the pre WW2 pitch was A 452hz. that is the best part of half a semitone higher than today's A440hz. In continental Europe pre war pitches vary but A435hz. was common, about a quarter semitone flater than A440hz.
So, are we all just used to playing or listening to concertinas with compromised reeds ?
Perhaps the suggestions not to re-tune were more to safeguard the detail of original temperaments or to preserve old reeds from mishandling ?
My oldest concertina has certainly been re-tuned, perhaps several times, but its superb reeds continue to sing beautifully.
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1 hour ago, mike_s said:
Moby Dick-"A Roving" on what appears to be an EC
As far as I recall it was an EC and played by Alf Edwards , no less!
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As the Button Box is one of the best known sources of concertinas in the USA they could easily see a run on their stock and as Doug ( the owner) is looking to sell the business and retire perhaps he does not want to hold too many instruments.
But as you say, maybe over the last year or so, people are staying around home and taking the opportunity to learn a new instrument .
Perhaps Barleycorn Concertinas in the UK will be better informed on market trends.
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16 hours ago, Everett said:
There is also a 1907 ebony model 6 for sale...fully restored and priced at $4500. That seems like a fair retail price, but not a bargain. I see so many instruments up for sale on Ebay that need extensive repair and I have purchased a couple over the years...from such comes an education.
That is still far too much money. The Button Box have a nice model 8 , fully restored for a $1000 cheaper and comes with a garantee!
Good hunting.
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Some would say there is usually no comparison between a 1963 Wheatstone and its 1927 cousin. Of course exceptions do exist but in a blind test my money would always be on the 1927. If you had to pay $2500 to buy the 1963 model and spend money on a full restoration your equity is sure to be negative. I have just spent €800 on a new bellows, including postage, but it is for a 1929 Aeola which is playing-in very nicely now. I was a little concerned about spending so much on a bellows for a concertina that was unplayable but faith is proving itself.
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3 hours ago, Jim2010 said:
Indeed yes.
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Interesting song writing .
Does anyone have a 'musical joke' ? One where the actual music is played to create laughter , either at the music or the performer .
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Yes... buy it.
Baritone-treble
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted
It can be played just like a normal EC but all the notes are one tone lower.
As Steve says there was, ( is ) one for sale ,in the UK... just look through the Buy & Sell forum here. I think it is on the second or third page.