MatthewVanitas

I have the TradLessons iPhone Hayden concertina app, so that helps explain the concept. Got the Beaumont on order, maybe buying the jammer keyboard once I sell some other gear (C#/D Hohner Erica, 4-stop D melodeon, etc). I'm not going to sign up for a waiting list until a few months down the road, once I get a feel for the Beaumont and figure out my stance on trad vs. hybrid reeds. I'm picking up a good-quality Jones 20 button C/G Anglo from Greg Jowaisas so I'll have at least one good trad concertina in the house, and can extrapolate that sound to figure out whether that's what I'll someday want to hear in a Duet. I don't want to wait too-too long on getting on a waitlist, as I'd rather risk losing the $100/£100 deposit rather than add years to my wait time. Two questions on that: 1) Wakker definitely does trad reed Hayden-Wicki duets and maintains a waitlist. Wheatstone has done them in the past, but my understanding is it's not a priority of his and waiting for one from him might take ages and ages. Dipper has made them before, but did they just make huge ornate 12-sided ones? I'll have a better feel for what I like after getting familiar with the Beaumont, but based on my Elise experience so far I imagine that a nice compact hexagonal 46k would suit me fine. I've seen John Connor's name mentioned as having built Haydens as well, and Geoff Crabb too, though unsure if those are total one-offs or whether they're open to taking more orders for them. I'm in my early 30s, so I'm not in a drastic hurry and can survive a 6 year waitlist or more. Are the above my main options for waitlist for a trad-reeded hybrid, or any I'm missing? Any of the above that are just really not likely sources for a Hayden? 2) Of the folks making trad-reed concertinas these days, who maybe might do Haydens, do any of them offer brass reeds as an option? Are brass reeds notably more expensive? I'd have to put a lot of thought into it and do some ear-testing, but big picture I think high-quality brass reeds might suit me well for solo play or accompaniment to voice or just one or two acoustic instruments. I don't so much look on the Hayden as a session instrument, since I have the 1-row melodeon to blare out four sets of reeds for that!

*shrug* I learned on a Hayden 35 button duet, and it suited me fine for a couple years until now when I'm upgrading. The 35b Hayden, as I track, has a little more range than the 39 Maccann since the Hayden is only semi-chromatic, but if forming chords is your big thing that's more useful anyway. I often differ from the opinion of other duet fans here since I play much simpler modal folk music, not trying to big piano-esque arrangements on concertina. So if even the 66b players don't oppose your mini-duet plan, that's a compelling case. Plus if you like it and get a more expensive big Maccann, the 39b will be a nice low-risk/compact alternative instrument to take traveling or to more informal musical events. Plus tiny concertinas are cute.

Hello Bruce, I am indeed familiar with a few of the Hayden-Wicki instruments you mention, but mostly the crossovers that have intrigued me are the MIDI controllers: Thummer (never made it to market), the Gadgetina (still a homebrew), and the AXIS-49. The last is commercially sold, though the originators intended it to be used for their own competing isomorphic layout, but Hayden fans have moved key colors around, turned them sideways, and run Wicki coding through their synth to accommodation our tuning. I'm rather tempted to get the AXIS-49, particularly as I believe their current $250 each is a "sale" price, though that sale appears to have been going much of this year. The AXIS is appealing not just for being a useful alternative to piano keyboards for those of us who want to play keyboard... but not piano. The bit that really draws me is that it can be so easily tweaked for intonation, microntonal bits, etc. I had at one point vaguely pondered a Hayden concertina in, say, Pythagorean tuning, but that would be $5k+ and give me an instrument that would be almost unsellable. Then I thought maybe I could get a MIDI concertina and then just program it for many tunings including Pythagorean, but I suppose a MIDI concertina is rather pricey too. Then my brain finally connected the dots and I figure getting a jammer keyboard is really the most practical way to go at this stage. Anyway, Bruce, in your shoes I would definitely drop in and check out the Buttonbox. I'll be curious to hear which model you end up choosing!

Out of curiosity, are you fixing to actually pick up a G/D, or just reflecting that it would've been the best call? Are you reckoning to get a Morse Ceili in G/D, or which? I've had some interest off and on in getting a G/D as it might be more intuitive to me (as a 1-row D melodeon player) than the whole all-over-the-rows modern C/G style of play. I'm sure Wim has some reason for not yet offering a G/D "Rocky" counterpart to his C/G "Rochelle" model (like how for ECs there's the Jackie and Jack), but it is too bad for the G/D platform that the only <$1000 option is the Stagi.

I'm looking for just a basic 20b Anglo for solo play, so modern concert pitch and temperament is unimportant, and I'm fine with it being Bb/F, Ab/Eb or whatnot. If in-tune but old-pitch instruments, or flat-key instruments are less desired in the market and I can get more bang for the buck on those, all the better. I understand C/G is most common overall though, so I'd also be open to a 20b C/G. I'm less interested in playing top dollar for a really clean model, but would be happy to buy one cosmetically beat so long as it's reasonably in tune with itself and has decent reeds/action. I mostly want this just to have a trad-reeded concertina for getting a feel for trad reeds vs. hybrid, and don't have a problem with 20b limitations since this will be more just an around-the-house instrument for my own playing pleasure, whereas for outside stuff I'll be using my Morse Beaumont duet once that arrives. Thanks for any suggestions, whether you have specific 20bs to sell me, suggestions on what not to get, or advice as to whether I should just go to Barleycorn and see what they get in this month.

While I'm waiting for my hybrid Hayden, and pondering maybe a few years down the road getting a trad-reed one, I was thinking about some earlier poster who had a button dimpled, I believe the middle (physically) A on each hand of his Hayden. The intent being that it could help "index" the hand if one were to lose track of where one was within the note array. Does anyone have that feature on their Hayden, or favor it on some other duet or English concertina? Also though I imagine folks don't really look at their keyboard while playing, I was under the vague impression that some older duets had a different colored button(s) somewhere in the array. I don't know if this is considered too CBA-like in current fashion, but I was pondering whether it'd be cool just for visually making a duet a little more distinct. If anyone has either a dimpled or textured button on certain note(s), or contrasting colored buttons on a duet, I'd be curious to hear about it.

I initially found even the tightest setting of the Elise to be too big for my small hands, but then based on some advice (I think on this forum) I tried "cupping" my hands slightly rather than leaving them fully flat. This makes my hands "take up more space" and fit the straps on the lower notes, and when I go higher I flatten my hand out slightly giving me more wiggle room. It's not a huge motion, and after a few times playing I don't even think about it when I do it. The cupping isn't tensing my hand at all, as I can play for an hour or more just fine. I'll see if I can shoot a little video in a few days of what I'm doing (for future reference, given that this is an old post!).

This weekend a forum member was kind enough to let me come by his house and play his Morse Ceili and a few of his vintage Anglos as well. Different system, but I was overall really pleased with the sound and action of the Morse brand, so am putting in my deposit for a Beaumont today! I understand the TAM reeds are "different but not better or worse", so may stick with the standard reeds to get a less-bright sound for better accompaniment. I've been playing Hayden more and more as of late, and actually taking up playing (slowly) multi-part written sheet music on it, so a smoother and more-buttoned instrument will be a help there, plus keep my enthusiasm rolling. I am looking to keep my current Elise, since I occasionally play outdoors or at rowdier parties where I'd rather not risk $4k, so a cheaper backup is useful. To slightly narrow the large disparity between the boxes I'll check with Tedrow about the Elise upgrades he lists on his page. If I can get my Elise cleaned up and running smoother, even if it costs a couple hundred (not to make it a "silk purse") it may well be worth it to reduce the frustration when I take my "beater" along to a shindig. My taste-testing of concertinas this weekend was also really instructive in terms of hearing/feeling the difference between hybrid and traditional reeds up close. It is quite a distinct difference, though I wouldn't necessarily say that in-and-of-itself either sounds better or worse to me than the other. I'd read descriptions of reed differences here, and did indeed find the trad reeds to be "honky", much more aggressive projection, and also really distinctly low on harmonics. In that last respect, it reminds me of the "pure tone" low-harmonic sounds of the ocarina or kalimba; not that they sound similar, just that they share that very curious style of sound-wave. For the time being I think I'll be quite happy with the richer and more organ-like sound of hybrid reeds, but I might track down an inexpensive 20-button trad-reed Anglo just to have a contrasting instrument. Thanks for all the good info in the thread, and I'm really impressed by Dave and Inventor's encyclopedic knowledge of Haydens! I'll look to report back in a few months once I get the new 'box in.

A lot of the darker and slower Shape Note songs go great on Duet concertina. Also "Idumea" and "The Dying Californian" are some of my preferred ones to play. Thus far I've mostly just taken the Tenor (melody) part and just worked basic chords and drones around it, but at some point I need to discipline myself to actually sit down with a book and try to work out the parts as actual fingerings. As much as I enjoy Hayden, I muck around with too many other instruments, and get caught up in work and other activities, so I really need an actual "course of study" plan for it. Probably Hayden and Swedish bagpipe should be the main ones I should be focusing on studying seriously, since there's no shortage of great ukulele players, or Appalachian dulcimer players, out there already. Serious performers on the sackpipa or the Hayden probably number in the few dozen total! Hopefully the great acoustics helped compensate for my rather awkward timing! I was at a pretty early stage of playing then, and also often traveling about the country in rough enough ways that it wasn't practical to drag a concertina along. The first few days of the Hayden were a little confusing, and I mostly did just slow melody work on the right. Then I started doing tunes that had an absolutely constant drone on the left, and then progressed to doing basic two-finger root-fifth chords on the left with melody on the right. I'm embarrassed to admit that for a couple of years I didn't get much further than that, just hauling it out occasionally. But lately I've been jamming with friends more, selling off some extra music gear, and focusing a bit, so I'm getting better at making less-poundy and more subtle use of the left hand (including coincidentally pretty much the same "break up the chord, and play amongst its component parts on the left" that Judy Hawkins describes in the tutorial she's building). That and trying to work out some really, really basic counterpoint now. I can do even reasonably complex melody quite well on the right, since my background is mostly in melodic instruments, but the pat-head-and-rub-tummy pattern of complementary actions on the left hand are still slow to come to me. As I recall, the first tunes I worked on the Hayden were "Amazing Grace" (with pure drone) and "Flowers o' the Forest", the ballady one that has the minor turn on the C part. Then the first I-IV-V multi-chord piece I worked out was the gospel tune "Are You Washed in the Blood of the Lamb?", which is a rather rollicking tune that can tolerate some heavy chording, yet still doesn't sound stripped out with root-fifth chording. Honestly, I generally find very little motive to do full 1-3-5 major or minor chords on the left, I just tend to do root-fifth both for ease of fingering and also to keep from drowning out the right. I wrote in to Steve Dickinson inquiring on pricing and waitlist for Wheatstones, on the off-chance that I'll have cash in place and be ready for a fancy box sometime in the 2020's. David, not to put you on the spot, but if you have any comments about your modern Wheatstone compared to any others (other Wheatstones, other makes) you've played, I'd be curious to hear. Clearly you're happy overall, but just mildly curious if it's an overwhelming "single best duet decision ever" or if it's a more esoteric "really like it, but I could see other people liking different things" situation. Still pondering here. Getting some cash accumulated from some other music and military gear I'm selling off (keeping my sword though), and looking to sell off a motorcycle which should bring me pretty close to Beaumont money when added into my "I love me" account.

Wow, got some great input so far, brings up some great points: - ceemonster raises a good one about Peacock being a good hybrid intermediary step, and Beaumont a good final step. Particularly since the full price of the Peacock could be got back if upgrade to a Wakker. - I somehow neglected to think of the Peacock trade-in value, maybe because I wasn't sure I'd want to trade my Elise in towards a Peacock, since the Elise I can take to an outdoor music festival or drunken houseparty without fretting it. Though maybe using the Elise even as a beater will feel backwards once I have a Peacock, and I just need to be more responsible yet more unstressed about risking the Peacock. Anyone else faced the CC trade-in dilemma and just preferred to keep their Rochelle/Jackie as a beater and pay cash for the Clover/Rose? - The comment about Wheatstone wasn't meant as a "to replace the Elise", but rather wondering if risking £100 putting down a desposit on a Wheatstone might be a decent idea. On the off-chance that in 5-10 years I'd be maybe ready to upgrade to a concertina-reeded, or else by then certain the Peacock was the last for me. If someone sold a used Wheatstone 46 for $5800, any idea what the price for a new one is? I was guessing like US$10-12,000, but if it's more like US$8000 that's not at all nightmarish. - While the occasional used Wakker would save me a a grand or so, by the time we're reaching the $5-6k margin I think I'd just as rather get a new one so I can have it to my liking. Design-wise I'm sure the Wakker is great, but aesthetically I'm not really keen on the glossiness and bellows papers of the ones I've seen pics of. If I were to order one, I could deal with something a bit less Victorian and a bit more Modernist in aesthetics, or at least simply less shiny. - Can either the Peacock or Beaumont take baffles? I know folks have tried them on the Elise and found them not worth doing, but since I do heavy drone/chords on the left, I could stand to make my bass end a little quieter so my right hand can be more prominent. Just curious whether either of these two models baffle well. Given the numbers on Clover/Rose/Peacock sales (relative to other mid-ranges) and how standardised they are, I wonder if they'd be any cheaper to baffle due to being able to make just one template per model. I keep reminding myself that as expensive as these are, they're easier to maintain and safeguard, lose less value over time, and far less subject to catastrophic destruction than a motorcycle, yet non-millionaire folks buy $4-8k motorbikes all the time. So that puts some perspective on it. - Understood on the Morse probably having a better fit and finish, key action, etc. Which explains the higher price then. Though I realise their utility, I'm not partcularly perturbed about losing any of those buttons except for the highest 'd', which would be nice but not vital. - Good point on using more-common CC and Morse products to compare. I actually did that a bit on reading online reviews, looking for "Clover vs. Ceili" since there are way more of those out there, so that got some good gouge. On a minor aside, I was thinking the ebonised was the more attractive Peacock option, since the natural wood is a little plain (the Beaumont is lovely honey-coloured though), but some mentions of the ebonised Clover complained about the black rubbing off onto the fingers. Is this a 'box I'd have to play only while wearing dark clothes the rest of my life? I don't mind some of it wearing off over the first few weeks, especially since it'd give the finish some character, but if it's going to shed dye for years the natural might just be safer. - Along the lines of saving me a trip to Boston and over, if anyone in the DC or NYC area has any Morse or Clover/Rose model, I'd happily buy you a number of beers just to try out the instrument sitting with you for a few minutes. Thought about it, but I'm really thrilled with the Hayden layout. I've also been considering giving up any thought of playing piano-type keyboard, and instead just using any of the hex-key MIDI keyboards set up for Hayden. There are a number of folks online who play two Axis 49s side by side in Hayden settup as a keyboard: -- Two Axis (Axes?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLN4CAl6p7A -- Even lovelier, but never made it to market, is the Thummer. Even more specifically geared to Wiki, plus with pitch control and other such effects on the thumbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPxrTUnb0Iw --Heck, if Hayden continues to grow in popularity, maybe someday I'll fulfill my dream of having a Wicki-Hayden clavichord. Cnet member Ragtimer posted an image of such a thing earlier: So while I understand the Crane has many more affordable vintage products out there, I do like the Hayden keyboard far more than I just like duets in general, so I'll have to take the hit. - David, thanks so much for posting the pic of your Wheatstone 46. It really drives home the huge difference between a 7" and a 6.25" concertina. My brain keeps wanting to note the difference arithmetically, but when I see it I realise that geometrically it's a big difference (did I get those math terms right?). I keep meaning to shoot something more recent, but here's me in Afghanistan in 2010 (I had the Elise shipped out to Bagram for me) when I had just a couple of months of practise in. Here's me doing a Shape Note cover in a ruined palace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQCJqOSA-U

I've been playing my CC Elise Hayden duet for three years now, and overall finding it more fun and easy to play than any keyed instrument I've messed with previously. Because of it I've managed to avoid getting a harmonium or shruti box, and I'm selling off several of my melodeons because this is just more versatile. I've never played an instrument where I had such an easy time harmonising with others, and shifting keys without changing fingering pattern is fantastic. Initially I had no complains at all about the Elise, despite assurances that I would "outgrow" it. But indeed, over time I notice the small flaws of performance: buzziness or breathiness on some reeds, key action not as smooth as would be good, etc. And though the Elise's range and scales does me great for a large part of the time, since I mainly do folk music in keys of C, G, and D, occasionally when jamming with friends I run across the other keys I can't hit, or while playing some music with mode changes or non-Western scales I find myself lacking chromatics I need. So I do feel that I'm well pushing the boundaries of this starter axe. I'd heard the Stagi Hayden isn't particularly great in quality, though the larger number of buttons would be an upgrade, so no desire to spend $700 used or $1000 new on one of those. I was delighted when Wim came out with the Peacock, and figured that would be my natural choice, but then the Morse Beaumont comes out with 10 extra buttons (52 vs. 42) though still the same 7" across the flats (same size as my 34-key Elise, oddly enough). Those 10 extra buttons, however, go mostly to an extra 2 notes of overlap between hands, 1 extra note each at bottom and top of range, and the rest duplicate chromatics for uniform fingering, so helpful but not night-and-day. I know some people don't feel comfortable publicly comparing competing products in a close-knit enthusiast community, but if anyone has any input, public or private, about choosing between the two I could really use the input. And a trip up to Buttonbox from DC would burn up at least two full days and a few hundred bucks in travel, largely negating the price difference anyway, so I don't know that I'd have much chance to try out either in the DC area. Any opinions as to what the extra $1250 for the Morse gets me, or any subjective differences in feel and tone between the two? Given that $3800 is getting me a large part of the way to the $6k+ for a Wakker concertina-reeded Hayden, I considered that, but am just not sure I'm ready to commit that yet. Also I've never played any actually concertina-reeded concertina, so I'd hate to pay double for "true" reeds and then find I like hybrid more anyway. And while I'm here, topping out the price scale, has anyone gotten a quote in recent years for a Hayden duet from Wheatstone? Am I guessing right it's like £8k+ for one of theirs? Thanks for any input on figuring out where to jump to from the Elise. I'm just glad that in a short time we've gone from "Stagi for $1000 or full custom for $6000" to having $400, $1000, $2600, $3800, and $6000 options. It'd be lovely if there were an $1800 option somewhere there in the middle, but at least the Beaumont and Peacock are within reach with some saving.

Last year I posted a thread (Off-the-shelf hard case for Concertina Connection boxes?) trying to find a good solid case for my CC Elise Hayden Duet. The soft-case that comes with the 'box had served we well for a few years, including hauling it around Afghanistan, but it started working itself a part after two years, and also really didn't provide as much protection as I'd like. Fortunately, Wim replied to my post, pointing out the CC hardshell had just gone available for $55, so I ordered one and have been using it for a year now. Overall impression: generally pleased, but there are a few weak points that, if possible, it'd be great to improve in later production, and I'll try to modify the on my case. The Good - Looks decently pretty for the money! It looks darker in the flash photo, but under proper light it's kind of a mid-chocoltely brown, with a slick red piping running around it at top and bottom. It's alligator-textured, which also gives it some nice grip. Nice matching faux-velveteen red interior. - It seems quite sturdy indeed. I don't want to blow $55 failure-testing this thing, but I've tentatively leaned on it with a lot of my weight and not felt it give. On a bet (with empty case) I think I could carefully stand on top of it without crushing it. And though I'm sure it's not meant to be waterproof, I think it would hold up pretty well to an accidental splashing, having a rather impervious exterior and pretty good seal to it. - The reinforced corners are a nice touch, I imagine it helps out somehow. - Fit is as cozy as it can be without being unpleasant. At first it was rather too tight, and it was hard to slide it in and smoothly, and the lining kept wanting to slide out with it as I pulled the instrument out. But after it broke in, it fits nice and tight with about zero rattle side-side and only slight slack back-front, but comes out of the box fine. - Padding seems decent for a basic case, it's about 1/4-1/3" with some slight give. So it's not a Pelican Case full of foam, but it has more internal give than most instrument cases I've owned, including plenty of free-reed cases. - Hinges (two of them) are nice and big, don't seem a likely failure-point at all. Nicely set up so they max out at just past vertical, so the lid holds itself up great without falling forwards or clunking back, and isn't heavy enough to unbalance the case The Bad - The latch is terrible! It's one single latch of pretty thin sheet metal, not a very firm lockup, and the worst thing is there's just one of them. I've already had two incidents where while carrying the instrument my leg bumped the latch open, fortunately neither time resulting i a spill (at least once because the padding has such a nice firm fit). So now I'm careful to carry the case latch-outboard and make sure it doesn't bump anything. I really intend to replace the latch, ideally with two "drawbolt" latches with that locking loop to make sure it stays shut when I need it to: No: Yes: - Minor quibble, but the liner gluejob on mine was pretty poor. The liner came slightly loose on several sides from the initial breakin period. Not a huge problem, I just need to get some expoxy and glue it back in place. - Another minor: the plastic of the reinforced corners looks a little chintzy compared to the nicer plastic alligatoring of the case. No huge deal, small aesthetic complaint. - The four tiny feet on the bottom of the case, though nicely placed to avoid rocking, don't have a lot of grip, so aren't as resistant to sliding as I'd like. Also the nail used to hold each is almost level with the surface of the foot itself, so though one shouldn't go putting cases on nice furniture/floors anyway, it in theory adds more risk of scratching surfaces than optimal. - The handle is really tiny. I have small hands for a man, and my four fingers completely fill the handle, so a bigger guy would have to 3-finger this one. There's also only 1/2" or clearance or so between my knuckles and the join of the handle, so a larger hand would be pretty cramped in there, plus it doesn't leave much/any room for padding the handle if you're going to carry it around for extended periods of time. Neutral observations - The case is a little bigger and heavier than I expected: about 10x9x9" and 7.5 pounds. Granted, the Elise is a big 7" concertina and the case is quite sturdy; so not criticising, just noting. Those are my observations, and I can answer any questions if anyone's curious. I'm also open to any suggestions on improving my case, particularly replacing the iffy latch.

I'm planning to make it out this Sunday, and bring a CC Elise Duet and a 4-stop in D, maybe my 2-row C#/D accordion. Oh, and I almost forgot, I have that C#/C concertina conversion I can bring along. I can wrangle a zipcar if need be, but if anyone is going down to this even from the general downtown or NW DC area (or anywhere Metro-able from there), if I can snag a ride down that would be outstanding. If someone's passing that way, if you can PM me that'd be great.

I feel a little silly asking, but I have a probably 1970s Bastari concertina that's missing one button that I'd like to address. It's the small-size buttons like commonly seen on these even today, not the huge round German-style ones you see on some older Italian and German 20-buttons. If we're not sure we have the same size, I can photo one of mine next to a coin for scale or something. If anyone has 1 or 2 of these buttons sitting around in your spares kit, I can PayPal you a few bucks to mail them over to me (DC, USA). Too much to hope for, but if someone happens to have one that's any color other than white, I can use that for the air button for contrast; just aesthetics. Now to go crack the box open and re-sleeve the levers with 3/32" silicone tubing...

When you say "It seems to have been made by Stagi for Matusewitch Associates, New York", are you getting that info from some slip of paper in the box, or are there markings saying such on the instrument? What markings are there visible?

Hello Terrence! While a cheap Chinese off eBay may not be the best starter, the important thing is it's gotten you started playing, so I wouldn't call it a "mistake" yet! You will promptly want to start setting aside some cash for an upgrade though, maybe chuck a few bucks in a jar every day and by the time you max out the potential of the cheapie you might have the cash for a CC Rochelle, or maybe you'll have taken to it so seriously you'll skip over the mid-step and buy a good used Anglo off the classified adds here. Only way to find out is keep playing and learning to figure out if Anglo is for you, and what features you most want to see in an upgrade. In the long term, what kind of music are you looking to play?

Hello NCW, glad to hear the concertina has struck you so favorably! It is a really great instrument (or "class of instruments"): nice clean tone, very compact, good dynamic range, minimal maintenance other than mailing it off to be tuned after a few years. I was in a position somewhat similar to yours a few years back, and was wavering between Anglo and English when I noticed Concertina Connection had just brough out the Elise Duet. I'd barely heard of duet before, but was sold on reading the concept, and have been casually playing duet a few years now. I play mostly out of the Anglo-Celtic-American tradition, and I'm finding the Elise to be really suitable for the stuff I do. As others have noticed, there really isn't any established Duet presence in those traditions, so there's no "Tom McHarry Hero of the Irish Duet Concertina" out there to emulate, but one can certainly execute tunes out of any of those traditions on the Duet and make them sound good. I agree with your "piano-like" perception of the duet; I don't play piano myself, so ironically playing duet got me into learning to play electronic keyboard. I chose the Duet over the Anglo because the bouncy-in-out put me off at first (yes, I know it can be played smooth). I chose the Duet over the English because I wanted to be able to do accompaniment easily, which is fine on Duet where like piano the left can vamp chords and walking bass, and the right do melody, where it's trickier on the English where the whole octave is parceled out between hands. The Duet doesn't so easily lend itself to the driving rhyhthm of Anglo or its intuitive harmonizing, and it doesn't have the sheer speed of the English where rapid melody can alternate across hands. But I find it a great substitute for a keyboard (or in my case, the small Indian lap-harmonium I wanted until I got the Elise), while having that clean and simple concertina sound and being less huge and obtrusive (and passe) than a piano accordion. Though Lukasz raises valid points as to the build, personally as an long-time amateur musician but concertina novice I've found the CC instruments to be fine for me starting out, though I'm starting to outgrow mine after a few years. For someone playing other than Western European folk music, the Elise can be rather limiting since it "only" plays in the keys of C, G, D, and F, but the vast majority of music in the Anglo-Celtic traditions are in those keys. I only really find the key limitations problematic if I play some wider-ranging tunes like Latin or Persian melodies, and when playing, say, Bach I need to transpose occasionally into keys that fit the Elise. That's my little Duet pitch. If you're seriously focused on Irish trad than Anglo is the hands-down option, but if you want something piano-esque and versatile across a number of genres, Duet merits a look.

Doug, so glad to see this box arrive on the market! Odd to think that just a few years ago there was just the $1000 Stagi and a few really high-end customs, and now we have Haydens at $400, $1000, $2400, $3800, and $6000 price-points. Interesting that the Elise, Peacock, and Beaumont are all about the same size (~7" across flats) despite being 34, 42, and 52 buttons respectively. Can you let us know what the weight is on the Beaumont? I'm just curious how much heavier that the Peacock it is for being the same size. Eagerly awaiting YouTube clips of the Beaumont demo!

Glad to see you're jumping on into this. Myself, I'd casually messed with Anglo and English, and a few years back while working in Afghanistan as a researcher decided to order a Concertina Connection box to have something to mess with on slow days. I was going to order English since I just couldn't figure out Anglos back-and-forth (though these days I grasp it fine) and since I'd recently seen Danny Spooner play live in Newfoundland, and he does great work backing up songs with English. But then I noticed the new Elise model, did a little reading up on Duets, and sprung for that, and I've been a casual Duet player for a couple years now. What I really like about Duet is that I can use my left hand for "strumming chords" while carrying a melody on the right, almost like playing rhythm and lead guitar, or guitar and fiddle, simultaneously. I find it easier to keep those two functions compartmentalised with the low notes on one hand and the high on the right. It also lets me do what I like to do on keyboard: hold a low rumbly drone or root-fifth chord in the bass and do melodic improvisation above it on the treble. I do a lot of folks stuff, but as mentioned in another recent thread I've found it fits some recent popular tunes well too. Interesting you mention doo wop, and makes me think that "Last Kiss" would sound pretty awesome on Duet. The Elise is a smal Duet so has some limitations in chromaticity, but I've found it fine for my most common keys (C, G, D, F). Given your interests I do wonder if you might end up being inclined to jump to a larger box earlier than the average novice, in order to get "blue notes", play jazzier riffs, etc. I'm very pleased with the Elise as a starter instrument, and though the selection is limited there are 46-button Stagi Haydens (pop up sometimes $500-800 used, more notes but not notably better build than Elise), and the new 42-button CC Peacock (just over $2k new, appears to be real quality). In any event, looking forward to seeing the results of you pilgrimage; I know there have been past novice posters who were dead-set on Box X, then played the three types side-by-side and completely changed course to Box Y instead. But trying them is how to puzzle it out, and I certainly think renting an Elise could be a great way to go.

I'm thinking back about 20 years here (so more than half my life), but I recall reading some book about the early early folk revival in the UK where amidst all the maudlin romantic/nationalist blather one commentator had pointed out: "It's not as though one day a thousand years ago the entirety of England arose as one and started singing Summer Is Icumen In; somebody had to write the thing." It's not my favourite song, but in concept I think that'd be great. If she does it, get her to put it up on YouTube. Or heck, if you help her puzzle out a good arrangement of it I'd love to see a clip of your playing it. I've put it off a while to work on a proper full arrangement, but just for kicks I need to go YouTube my very rough initial versions of one song by the hip-hop singer Akon, and one by Judith Hirsch (formerly of the band Throwing Muses).

I'd agree, particularly since Duet isn't anywhere as ensconced in a genre as Anglo is in ITM, and English has somehow worked itself a niche in the Folk Revival along with its literally "traditional" use as a Classical instrument. There's no particular reason concertinas in general, much less Duets, have to be consigned purely to the folk category. I play and listen to a lot of folk, no knock there, but concertina has tone and character that could fit a number of places. All these definitions get pretty blurry: if we play an 80s metal song with fiddle and concertina, is it a "folk cover" or just an acoustic cover that happens to use less-common instruments? At what point do Beatles songs officially cross the line from popular music into folk, given how ensconced they are in oral culture as singalong tunes? One of my favorite "folk" songs, "Her Bright Smile Haunts Me Still" was originally no more folk than anything making the Top 40 this week, given that it was written by a specific composer and lyricist, published commercially, and presumably to people at the time had no "traditional" implications at all: Setting aside philosophy about folk vs. popular music (as fascinating as I find the topic), there are plenty of places where concertina just has a good sound. Accordion (mostly piano in the use, some CBA in Europe) shows up with a number of bands to this day to good effect. For example, I think concertina would've sounded better on Nirvana's 1994 "Unplugged" album; here's a that I think would've sounded better with the cleaner sound of concertina. Glancing around YouTube, I'm only seeing two Duet concertina tracks of post-WWII popular music: (Louis Armstrong, 1967) (Earth, a Seattle "doom drone", 1993) I need to get less lazy and try to do a few covers of recent songs I like, I've got a few in mind released in the last five years.

Last night my neighbors held an "indoor camping" party, due to the weather not cooperating with their plans to fire up the grill outside. So we sat in a circle around a guitar amplifier piled with Christmas lights as a bonfire/"ampli-fire" and had beers and s'mores. Two of the guys hauled out guitars, so I walked down the hall back to my apartment and brought back my Elise duet concertina, and for the next few hours we played pop songs for the increasingly tipsy crowd to sing along with. I've messed with arranging basic currently popular music on concertina, but hadn't really used it in a pop-music session yet, and it came off surprisingly well. Not that it was unduly demanding, a lot of this stuff is just 3 to 4 chords and in a limited number of keys. The Elise handles F/C/G/D just fine, though one tune in Emaj I had to work around the lack of a D♭. I'm not a strong concertinist, so I started with a base of just 2-finger root-fifth (no 3rds) chords on one hand or the other, and would vary that up by mixing up low and high tones (I on left hand, I-V on right hand, etc), or doing arpeggios or riffs within the chord of the moment. Then a few solos on the easier pieces. We covered both some classic rock and some recent tunes: Wouldn't It Be Nice (Beach Boys), With a Little Help from My Friends (Beatles), Every Rose Has Its Thorn (Poison, 1988), Free Fallin' (Tom Petty, 1989), Somebody I Used to Know (Gotye, 2011), and Call Me Maybe (Carly Ray Jepsen, 2012). Of the tunes, I'd say Free Fallin' and Somebody were the best served by concertina, particularly the latter with all the blippy little arpeggios in the background being almost perfect on the keys. A few songs just didn't fit well, so I switched to a Hare Krishna double-headed drum for All My Lovin' and a few others. Anyone else had good experiences using concertina for singlongs of post-WWII music? I'm certainly more of a folk player overall, but there are plenty of modern songs that sound good on acoustic/trad instruments; I think I'm slightly on the younger side for this board (early 30s) and so I figured folks might enjoy hearing about the concertina's enduring applicability.

A lot of interesting comment so far, I'm definitely learning a lot. And though I can see it's not everyone's cup of tea, what with the decreased harmony potential, it doesn't sound so bad for my particular habits of playing mostly melodic work on a one-row melodeon. Honestly, if I could get a 10-button Anglo at a good price, I'd probably mess with that just for kicks, and a C/C# is just a 10-button with a chromatic row above. In whatever case, Dancemaster cracked open the box today and is working the reeds, so it should be a quick and easy job. I wouldn't spend too much on something quirky like this, but the box was sunk cost and the reeds a good deal. I also have a Weltmeister 1-row with bad reeds sitting about, so maybe I'll have to find some unusual tuning to try out on that too. Maybe not the most useful boxes, but there's no shortage of beater Stagis and Weltmeisters in the world, so I'm willing to sacrifice a few for musical experimentation.

On the first, since I already have a spare cheap 20b, it's the easy candidate. Also, for the way I play I'm not unduly interested in having a third row a fourth above; I mainly want a 1-row "melodeon" with a second chromatic row to be the "black keys". Also there are plenty of cheap Stagi/Bastari 20b floating around since folks these days want 30b, so plenty to experiment on. For the second point, it really seems to vary by style. As I understand it, there are folks who play a C#/D as "D box" on the inner row, and switch to a D/D# for Eb sessions, not to play in D. However, as this article mention (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sean_quinn/psoprani/psoprani5.htm), some players like Johnny Leary played the D/D# "from the outside row in", and similarly Joe Derrane with the D/C#. Since a 10-row D is what I've found intuitive, playing the outside and using the inner for chromatics works for me. The C/C# is, again, just a compromise pitching just for proof of concept since it's the easiest half-step tuning to go to, though I suppose B/C would only be slightly more expensive to turn to, and so long as one's just playing it solo playing it as a "B melodeon" and transposing Irish tunes would go fine. I'll check with Michael once he gets to the box to finalise tuning, but I'm feeling pretty good for having the low note on the outside row, and the higher half-step on the inside

Is it that the buttons on this particular example need to be re-sleeved, or is there just some flaw with this model overall that it needs button tweaking?