Concerteeny
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Posts posted by Concerteeny
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Everybody who's posted a reply has helped me work this out. Thank you all so much. Do you give advice on other things, too, say, plumbing or auto repair? I'm leaning toward the Rochelle, but will go back and listen to as many Anglo videos as I can find first, and also consider the suggestion to rent. My musical tastes are eclectic, I mostly play folk, but I have recently realized my first memory of a concertina (or accordian) was from my dad's record of Michel Legrand's I Love Paris. That's probably not what most of you play, I'm guessing. I loved it as a child. Anyway, thanks again one and all.
Main thing: Anglo is not fully chromatic but easy to pick up by ear and play folk tunes, with or without self-accompaniment.English is fully chromatic, but one needs to understand harmony to sound livelier and self-accompaniment is trickier to master, as it needs some time for finger dexterity. Probably less easy to play by ear and it doesn't have "automatic" harmonizing in home keys, like Anglo.
Quite good summary by Mischa, but I will clarify a few things....
Anglo is key specific, English is key free.
A 20-button anglo in C/G will allow you to play easily in C, G, modal Am and modal Dm, with some of D major (but you don't have that all-important C#)
A 30-button anglo is fully chromatic across much of its range and much more versatile in terms of keys; C, G, F, D, Am, Dm and Em, are fairly straightforward.
Although the English is fully chromatic over all its range, most people find it rather challenging to play in the more extreme keys say more than 3 sharps or flats in the key signature (although this is largely a matter of familiarity and practice).
If you choose Anglo, you will have many to listen to, but only in Irish style.
Not true. There are plenty of Youtube videos and CDs of anglo concertina playing in non-Irish style.
English will leave you longing for company, unless you have donkey ears.
I guess it depends where you live. There are plenty of both anglo and English players around in the UK. You would have no trouble meeting up with your peers.
But Rochelle is probably less capable instrument then Jackie. Anglo need to be able to speak quickly bellows change, needing to play melody, unless you are going to play slower and without those quick tricks.
Jackie will allow you to play faster, if you are not into bellows changes for accentuating the beats.
I think by 'less capable' you are referring to the Rochelle's response and ease of playing? The reeds in the Rochelle and the Jackie are exactly the same quality.
Having played a Rochelle, I am impressed with its responsive nature. It speaks quite readily and the bellows direction changes are fine. I think it is an excellent beginner's anglo, probably the best on the market for its price.
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I vaguely know Nancy Apple, and just remembered I saw her pick up a concertina once. What's a Chemnitzer? I've also learned of another friend's friend who plays. Since the broken concertina I had belongs to a friend, I will pass on all your suggestions to him, but I'm ready to take the leap of faith and get my own. Now it's just deciding which one.
I guess in Memphis, the population density of concertina players is much lower, but I would be very surprised if there were none at all. They probably don't know about this forum, that's all. A google search of 'concertina players Memphis' gets a number of hits......I tried that and only spotted one, a country singer/songwriter named Nancy Apple who says she "plays drums, guitar, harmonica and dabbles on the accordion and concertina". But I couldn't tell if she plays Chemnitzer concertina or one of the kinds that we're discussing here.
If you could find an Irish music session in Memphis you might find a concertina player there -- a high proportion of US players play in that style.
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Thanks. I'm nursing a cold and may not get to trying out the chart until the end of the working week. As far as I could tell, though, there was no such order when I first tried to figure out the keyboard. And I believe it was Theo who responded that if it's playing notes when I'm not pressing buttons (as it is), it's broke. Is that not right?
Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.
Try checking the buttons using the Graham Patent 20 Anglo Chart for Beginners (u can sellotape it the right and left sides of the box!)
I hope I have the right notes....LoL
Above the line are the C row of buttons notes furthest from your fingers and below the line are the G row buttons nearer to your fingers.
Blow is the same as push and suck is same as pull out - B and S to avoid confusion for me over P ush and P ull....
Copy, paste into Word, bold as required and make as big as u can (it has to fit on the wood/bellows binding on right and left) cut to shape, sellotape down and start cooking.
Right side
bC D F A B blow
s B E G C E suck
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bF# A C E F# blow
s G B D G B suck
Left side
b C G C E G blow
s G B D F A suck
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b G D G B D blow
s D F# A C E suck
if you don't get notes something like these coming out then send it to Theo! Or you follow Dirge and open up (unscrew keeping screws laid out in order so they go back in the same holes and then
http://www.concertin...showtopic=10770
put a pencil mark on where u took it out (on the pan and the side) so u can match up tp stick it back the same way it came out.
When open poke (visually!) around inside and see what's stuck, leaking, bent, eaten by moths, or the little man inside may be on strike and need feeding etc etc
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Thanks. I got caught up in the Folk Alliance Conference last week and now I've gone and got a cold. But I did see Neil's offer, and also Daniel's reference to instruments on Concertina Connection. I also just learned that Consignment Music in town just got in a 20 button for around $170. I'm trying to take it all in. One remaining question (I also posted it in a new forum question): how does one decide whether to get an Anglo or English concertina? Daniel suggested one of each offered on Concertina Connection for about the same amount of money. By the way, do you guys all know each other?
Okay,
Memphis is certainly far enough from me in Yorkshire to be a non-starter.
I wonder if there is anywhere a register of players/repairers/collectors who would be willing to give up an odd hour occasionally to help enthusiastic beginners. I would certainly be willing to take part.
Teeny, I would have a good look on eBay at what's available and current prices and then come back to the forum with questions about what you have seen before making a purchase. That's if you don't feel able to take up Neil's reasonable offer.
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I'm in Memphis, Tennessee.
Concerteeny,
If you tell us where you are there is just an offchance that we know a player not too far away who would take a look at your instrument and say whether it is repairable or not. If it's just a couple of pads, even on a cheap model, it's a doddle to repair.
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Thanks to all those who helped me (a novice) figure out that the instrument that had fallen into my hands didn't work right. The experience made me decide that I want to fulfill my long-time dream of learning to play. Now that I've decided to take the plunge, I don't know how to consider whether to get an English or Anglo. Daniel Hersh suggested the Rochelle/Jackie/Elise lines on Concertina Connection and I looked at them - I'm thinking I won't go with the 34 key Elise, but how to decide between the 30 key Rochelle Anglo and 30 key Jackie English - which both come with the extras offered by that site.
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I might give this one a little more effort, although, I honestly can't wait to see what a properly working concertina feels and sounds like. This one has frustrated me. $350 is within my means. There's a consignment music store in town that might have one to test drive. Thanks again for all suggestions.
What Dirge suggests is certainly a possibility. But if you do want to buy one, many of us here recommend the Rochelle/Jackie/Elise line from Concertina Connection as starter instruments if their price (about $350) is within your means. If that's too expensive, there are cheaper alternatives, but they are more of a gamble.
Why not have a tinker with the thing you've got and see if you can kick it into rough playing shape? Or give it to that 'mechanically minded' friend to do it for you. The basic mechanics of a concertina are fairly straightforward, and there's not much to lose by the sound of things.
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Okay, that explains it. Thank you so much for taking so much time to help a novice get to the bottom of this. It is undoubtedly a Chinese instrument and seems to be quite cheap. So now I move on to the next consideration: has this experience sparked my interest enough to push me into buying a real, working instrument to learn on? Any suggestions on where to look/buy online?
No, you shouldn't hear any -- there's something wrong. There's probably at least one "pad" on the inside of the concertina that's not sealing properly. This may or may not be worth an attempt at repair. If this is a Chinese-made 20-button, it's probably not worth it.
Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.-
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Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?
Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.
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Thanks. No offense taken. I also sing without making people's jaws drop, so I'm pretty sure I'm not tone-deaf. It's not that it plays the same note in either bellows direction - it sounds like it plays F when pulling and then D when pushing, although both notes have overtones.But pressing many of the buttons doesn't change the note much. One button on the left hand changes the note to E when pushing, and another one changes it to B (push) and C (pull) another button changes it to low C (push). As I'm playing around with it trying to explain it,I 'm finding more changes, but they don't seem to fit at all with the chart on a site recommended by someone on this site, and some of the buttons don't seem to change anything.
It looks like the picture of the Anglo Stagi C-1 or C-2
In that case I can only conclude one of three possibilities:
(i) some drastic modification to the tuning has been carried out on the instrument to make the buttons play the same note in either bellows direction.
(ii) something is seriously wrong with the concertina to give it the same effect as (i)
(iii) you are partly tone-deaf and not able to distinguish between musical intervals of a tone (the normal difference between the push and pull notes on an anglo. I'm not trying to be nasty here. It does happen occasionally. But since you already have played guitar and piano, it is probably unlikely.
As a check, I recommend that you let someone else hear the concertina and ask them the question: "Does this note change in pitch when I push and then pull the bellows?"
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According to one site, the kind of strap it has says it's not an English concertina.
I'm a newbie who got some kind, helpful responses to my question about how to start yesterday. Unfortunately, I looked at the suggested websites and tried to start, but pushing the buttons while pushing and pulling did not change the notes. I know nothing about concertinas, but I have played guitar, piano, etc. So is it likely that this struggle is standard for a beginner, or could it be the instrument (it's an inexpensive 20 button that fell into my hands)?
Are you sure you did not get an English concertina?
Regie
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It looks like the picture of the Anglo Stagi C-1 or C-2
This is me (Concerteeny) again. I looked at the Peter Trimming teach yourself site, but when I press various buttons while pushing and pulling there is little if any change in note. Might this happen to a beginner or is something probably wrong with the instrument?
The anglo concertina should play a different note on the pull and the push. If you are getting the same note then (i) it is possibly not an anglo but a small size English system concertina or (ii) highly unlikely at only 20 buttons, a duet system concertina. These latter types play the same note per button on both push and pull.
Can you describe the layout of the buttons on your instrument? Are they arranged in two rows of 5 buttons on each side, or are they arranged in a small cluster of columns?
If you look at any of these pictures, are there any which resemble your instrument? If so, tell us which, and we might be more able to help.
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I'm a newbie who got some kind, helpful responses to my question about how to start yesterday. Unfortunately, I looked at the suggested websites and tried to start, but pushing the buttons while pushing and pulling did not change the notes. I know nothing about concertinas, but I have played guitar, piano, etc. So is it likely that this struggle is standard for a beginner, or could it be the instrument (it's an inexpensive 20 button that fell into my hands)?
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This is me (Concerteeny) again. I looked at the Peter Trimming teach yourself site, but when I press various buttons while pushing and pulling there is little if any change in note. Might this happen to a beginner or is something probably wrong with the instrument?
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Thanks. I'll try it.
Hi Concerteeny
Peter Trimmings' site might have enough information to overcome a few hurdles and get you started.
http://petertrimming...urselfanglo.htm
Thanks
Leo
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
I always wanted to play concertina, so when a friend, said, "I have a concertina. Sure, you can borrow it," I embraced the chance. Since I got it I've gone online to try to identify it and get some help. I see wonderful videos for learning to play some English and Anglo concertinas, but those instruments all have a lot more keys. I'm sure this is an inexpensive model, only 20 keys, but it's the only one I have access to right now. Can someone tell me what kind it is and steer me to some videos, websites, books, or ??? to help me get started?
Check out the concertina faq at www.concertina.info
It has a page for tutors and other books.
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Thanks. That's a whole lot of information. I'll get on it.
I always wanted to play concertina, so when a friend, said, "I have a concertina. Sure, you can borrow it," I embraced the chance. Since I got it I've gone online to try to identify it and get some help. I see wonderful videos for learning to play some English and Anglo concertinas, but those instruments all have a lot more keys. I'm sure this is an inexpensive model, only 20 keys, but it's the only one I have access to right now. Can someone tell me what kind it is and steer me to some videos, websites, books, or ??? to help me get started?
Get yourself harmonica and try to make sense of it.
Than apply same principle to your concertina, keeping in mind that it's scale is harmonica split in half.
Basically you have two "split" harmonicas: in C (lower) - a row further from you and in G (higher sounding) - a row closer to you. If you can't figure out a tune on harmonica, you probably can't on concertina. To help yourself, you can get "how to" booklet together with your entry level harmonica. After some days you'll be able to transfer your skills to the Concertina and be on your way. Those multi buttoned instruments are just like yours, only with added rows of accidentals (black keys of the piano) and reversals (same notes as on your two rows, but sounding in opposite bellows direction).
After you learn to play a few simple tunes, and after you decide that you like the experience, get yourself Tutor books and stick with them, go to sessions, play for kids in school - whatever.
Why not Roger Watson book right away?
Why not "Anglo Concertina Demistified"?
By some reason Harmonica feels more natural, you'll get used to the breathing and apply same feeling to bellows.
Oh, by the way, you may feel that wrist strap is too lose and will want to tighten it. Don't. Just don't hold instrument up in the air. It's unstable there. Put in on your lap, press slightly down with your hands and fan bellows open instead of pulling them apart. It'll teach you control. Later you'll do whatever you want, but in the beginning it's important to keep things as simple and stable as possible.
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I always wanted to play concertina, so when a friend, said, "I have a concertina. Sure, you can borrow it," I embraced the chance. Since I got it I've gone online to try to identify it and get some help. I see wonderful videos for learning to play some English and Anglo concertinas, but those instruments all have a lot more keys. I'm sure this is an inexpensive model, only 20 keys, but it's the only one I have access to right now. Can someone tell me what kind it is and steer me to some videos, websites, books, or ??? to help me get started?
Get yourself harmonica and try to make sense of it.
Than apply same principle to your concertina, keeping in mind that it's scale is harmonica split in half.
Basically you have two "split" harmonicas: in C (lower) - a row further from you and in G (higher sounding) - a row closer to you. If you can't figure out a tune on harmonica, you probably can't on concertina. To help yourself, you can get "how to" booklet together with your entry level harmonica. After some days you'll be able to transfer your skills to the Concertina and be on your way. Those multi buttoned instruments are just like yours, only with added rows of accidentals (black keys of the piano) and reversals (same notes as on your two rows, but sounding in opposite bellows direction).
After you learn to play a few simple tunes, and after you decide that you like the experience, get yourself Tutor books and stick with them, go to sessions, play for kids in school - whatever.
Why not Roger Watson book right away?
Why not "Anglo Concertina Demistified"?
By some reason Harmonica feels more natural, you'll get used to the breathing and apply same feeling to bellows.
Oh, by the way, you may feel that wrist strap is too lose and will want to tighten it. Don't. Just don't hold instrument up in the air. It's unstable there. Put in on your lap, press slightly down with your hands and fan bellows open instead of pulling them apart. It'll teach you control. Later you'll do whatever you want, but in the beginning it's important to keep things as simple and stable as possible.
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I always wanted to play concertina, so when a friend, said, "I have a concertina. Sure, you can borrow it," I embraced the chance. Since I got it I've gone online to try to identify it and get some help. I see wonderful videos for learning to play some English and Anglo concertinas, but those instruments all have a lot more keys. I'm sure this is an inexpensive model, only 20 keys, but it's the only one I have access to right now. Can someone tell me what kind it is and steer me to some videos, websites, books, or ??? to help me get started?
How to start on 20 button?
in Concertina History
Posted
Highly amusing. Yes, but I was enjoying the specific personal responses of people who seemed knowledgeable as well as nice (for the most part).