LoiS-sez

O.k. I blew it. Fortunately I'm new enough here it explains my confusion, but Newbies are the ones precisely inclined to choose the wrong forum. In reading the various descriptions I missed that this is as Ratface so clearly put it: The confusion is that this is the forum for Questions, Suggestions, Help about the forum, not a forum for Questions, Suggestions, Help about concertina! If you think that description might help, perhaps it would be worth revising the forum description. Obviously we all want the best responses on postings, so it would be helpful to those of us not used to thinking where a topic fits. Please also transfer the topic "How to control volume" to the Teaching & Learning Forum. Because I expected this to be about something like a mute that could be added to a concertina, I didn't originally expect that to be the place matching this topic. Then again maybe the General Concertina Discussion may be the better spot if you consider that aspect in addition to the suggestions for how to play with volume control. LoiS(ure the differences are obvious to long-time members, but not this Newbie)

Sometimes a topic is hard to figure its place. What's the forum better suited to this topic so more people can find it? LoiS(ins of a Newbie) The confusion is that this is the forum for Questions, Suggestions, Help about the forum, not a forum for Questions, Suggestions, Help about concertina! It should probably go in the Teaching and Learning forum, or maybe just the general one. I doubt if many people ever look in this forum (I don't!). Thanks. That makes perfect sense. Wish the listing of topics made that a bit clearer when I was casting about for which Forum to post this topic. LoiS(ending this request about the topic, but also hope the forum purposes might be clarified exactly as you did here)

Sometimes a topic is hard to figure its place. What's the forum better suited to this topic so more people can find it? LoiS(ins of a Newbie)

This is the other aspect of this topic that I think needs exploring. Concertinas sometimes need playing in hotels, apartments, & other locations where people might need to know ways to reduce the volume while practicing. Dunno if I can get Danny Chapman (ratface) to say more here, but I'll certainly try. LoiS(ounds like an option to explore)

Hi all you experienced players who sing, As a storyteller I tend toward the strong side of vocal volume, so I'm fortunate there & have indeed been working with that. I find the ends of my singing vocal range are where I feel the least volume on my own part. No time to transpose, so that's a given. I'm appreciative of the suggestions about cutting back on my 'tina's wind. It's helping. As was said, it's too natural to squeeze stronger when singing louder. The discussion has been a help to make me aware of this. THANKS! I was surprised to find, when I put "volume" in the Forum's search box, this wasn't a topic previously discussed. I'm sure I won't be the last to need this information. LoiS(o feel free to add anything furthering this topic as it clearly merits discussion!) Yea, it's good suggestion. It's like I was playing my Jack (Baritone). It feels like "whacking" your instrument and then quickly letting go off the ends. It may result in "squacking" kind of sound, but in the same time will give more of a rhythm. What beginners do is when they sing louder, they squeeze bellows stronger. No variations of brain functions yet. Like patting yourself on the head while rubbing belly. It will come (or not) with practice. And I also agree with having presence in your voice. If the voice is muffled, used to mike, then there is no hope. But if you stand 3 feet away from the mike and SEND your voice to the furthest listener.

Yea, it's good suggestion. It's like I was playing my Jack (Baritone). It feels like "whacking" your instrument and then quickly letting go off the ends. It may result in "squacking" kind of sound, but in the same time will give more of a rhythm. What beginners do is when they sing louder, they squeeze bellows stronger. No variations of brain functions yet. Like patting yourself on the head while rubbing belly. It will come (or not) with practice. And I also agree with having presence in your voice. If the voice is muffled, used to mike, then there is no hope. But if you stand 3 feet away from the mike and SEND your voice to the furthest listener.

Hmmmmm. I've a week until the gig & am uncertain if I can manage this as I'm still very much a beginner on concertina, but it's worth a try. LoiS(till hopeful a way to do an overall muting exists) Hi Lois, Subtle use of the air valve, if possible on your instrument, could help you overcome the problem. Allowing some air to leak in/out, via the valve, means that less will flow over the reeds. I never did manage to co-ordinate singing/playing, but accompanied a few singers. Regards, Peter.

I want to use my concertina sometimes with my storytelling programs. I've been working on a song "Take me out to the circus" to the tune of "Take me out to the ballgame." The only problem is that some of the song is overpowered by the volume of my concertina. On other instruments there are ways to control the volume or to muffle it. Is there 1 on the concertina that I'm missing? I don't want to use a mike for my singing because the place where I'll be telling is fairly small, so storytelling will be told without one. All the more reason I'd like my concertina a bit quieter. LoiS(inging loudly, but. . . )

Quick Smart-Alec Answer: No, it's "gee" as in "gee-whiz". The "g" is soft before a slender vowel ("i" or "e") in Italian. You got the rest right first time. Cheers, John Gee thanks! (& gee I'm sorry, but I accidentally sent a reply w/o sending this message of thanks for your clarification!!) I'd hate to mess up the name of my concertina. LoiS(igning off to play my Stagi)

Quick Smart-Alec Answer: No, it's "gee" as in "gee-whiz". The "g" is soft before a slender vowel ("i" or "e") in Italian. You got the rest right first time. Cheers, John

Thanks everybody for your encouraging remarks! It was also good to think about the difference between instrumentals & playing while singing. I agree that when it's just the instrument, I tend to need to just sit & concentrate on what I'm doing. In contrast, the minute I'm singing it's a different level of performance. Don't know if I'll try to sell my Cozart (& an antique store melodeon that I bought before that, but found it wasn't what I wanted because of its weight) or follow Catty's example letting the cast-off permit others to experiment. Quick Dumb Question: I never thought to ask how Stagi is pronounced. Is it Stah - gee (like glee without the "l") or . . . ?

Woops, consider this a p.s. to my post. I was just reading the discussion on playing standing up. One major difference I noticed while deciding on my new Stagi is that it's lighter. As a storyteller I find a definite difference in how an audience's interest is lower when the performer is seated. I'm sure this isn't a factor among musicians, but it is if I want to insert the concertina into my programs. Just this past week I had the opportunity to test this with my guitar & found it true there, too.

In a previous topic I talked about the "joys" of starting out inexpensively. When I started on guitar I started with a cheap beginner instrument & later moved up when I needed it. Well I just stepped beyond my cheap Chinese made Cozart to a Stagi. O.k. it's not a major step, but I've gone from a 20 button to 30 & am slowly exploring the differences. Was told most people starting out as I did give up the concertina. NOPE! It let me try it out & see if I really wanted to play concertina. YES! I'm hooked. I learned I wanted to stay with an Anglo because it is perfect for Celtic music I love. I'm especially fond of Scottish music & need to write a separate topic asking more about any Scottish concertina traditions. I also expected I'd want a G/D since I find Drop D tuning on my guitar & playing in those keys seems perfect for my voice on the guitar. Guess what? I can manage a C/G by singing an octave lower. The benefit is that kids can hear that higher octave of the instrument, which is better for their voices. I also have to do less transposing with a C/G of many folksongs. That row of accidentals is making that even less necessary. LET"S HEAR IT FOR A B FLAT!!! I remembered Stagi being a topic at the Button Box's site, so I just went to see what they say is needed: Our skilled technicians enhance Stagi concertinas by: checking for and repairing leaks completely tuning all reeds so that the instrument is in concert pitch (a=440 Hz) checking and repairing the action mechanism to ensure that it is quiet and responsive adjusting valves to minimize noise adjusting the reed set to make sure that the voicing is even. We spend considerable time on each concertina before it goes to its new home, and we guarantee new instruments for one full year. You may see a Stagi concertina sold for a lower price by another retailer -- but there may be hidden costs. Customers who bought a Stagi elsewhere have spent hundreds of dollars with our repair department to fix problems that the Button Box takes care of before you buy. ************************************************* Mine is a new Stagi with no leaks. Haven't checked for concert pitch, but don't foresee playing it with others, although that may change since I'm a member of a local folk music society. The action is both quiet & responsive. I'm not sure if the voicing is even, but I think the only time it's not is due to the amount of air available. I do find it louder & at times it has made me think of a car horn. Some say Stagis are mellow, but I'm not sure about that. Part of this could be that I'm still getting used to concertinas in the 1st place. Somewhere here I read your playing improves just with a better instrument. I know the extra row is something that trips me up a bit. One reason I decided to "step up" right away is the fear of picking up bad habits. I don't notice this making my playing improve except in 1 way: the bellows motion is more fluid. I still have the same needs for air in just about the same places, so that's not a factor. I bought it at Castiglione's here in the Detroit metro area when I had a storytelling performance nearby. I'm told there's a 1 yr. warranty. Aside from getting to know it by playing & playing, any suggestions on what I should check out during this year?

Have you explored the Wayback Machine? Go to http://www.archive.org/web/web.php & read a bit before prowling. It's not perfect, but it saves in more ways than just one. I can use it to find the sites of people who died & no longer are on the web. I also used it once to get back to an earlier version of my own site! ENJOY!!! Consider this a P.S. as I meant also to say what will be lost is correspondence & probably even a lot of photographs. Crashes & upgrades to new computers & constant changes in media are the enemy of the personal items in the past been saved in hard copy, a.k.a. paper. As a storyteller who does a lot of historical work, I really regret the way this is being lost. I've had it happen to my own materials (I know, I know, back up everything & I'm getting better at it). Picture the way a view into the life of composers &, especially, the "ordinary person" will make a difference. Instead of people burning old correspondence or lesser works, the internet & changes in media are doing it for us whether we want it or not. Another worry is the way it's affecting communication & even people's attention spans. Whether it's scanning through an article on the internet or tweeting & texting, everything is getting compressed. Think to how many times you bother to go to the 2d or later pages of something on your computer. Hand-held reading is especially likely to need abbreviation. I'm also a former (but still a bit of subbing) librarian, so I'm sure my print bias shows, but I do know the value of what we're losing.

Have you explored the Wayback Machine? Go to http://www.archive.org/web/web.php & read a bit before prowling. It's not perfect, but it saves in more ways than just one. I can use it to find the sites of people who died & no longer are on the web. I also used it once to get back to an earlier version of my own site! ENJOY!!!

My info about Castiglione is a few years old, but so far as I know it's still up to date. In late 2006 I was interested on trying out G/D Anglo after many years of playing C/G and I was looking for the least expensive decent G/D option. Klaus Guhl here on c.net had recommended the 20-button concertinas from Schaumanufaktur Klingenthal. I contacted them and they referred me to Castiglione as an American dealer of their concertinas. I got in touch with Castiglione and ordered a single-reed G/D. When it arrived, I realized that I should have asked whether it was a low G/D (the usual kind, pitched a fourth below a C/G) or a high one (pitched a fifth above). It turned out to be a high G/D, the opposite of what I wanted. Castiglione wasn't interested in giving me a refund but they were willing to do a full-price exchange for a double-reed, which has one low-pitched and one high-pitched reed per note, as Steve says. It's true that the sound was a bit different from a single-reed concertina, but it was a well-made instrument and I enjoyed playing it. After a while, I got an opportunity to buy a nice G/D 20-button Lachenal, switched over to that and eventually sold the Castiglione to another player. I completely agree with Steve's suggestion that you try out various options before making your decision if you can. You might want to contact Castiglione ahead of time to see what they have in stock. They do carry the Stagi line as well as their own brand. They don't know much a lot about concertinas (they're primarily an accordion dealer, a very big one) but I was satisfied overall with my dealings with them. Thanks yet again, Daniel. Before deciding a concertina was more of what I want, I picked up a melodeon from an antique dealer & then on Elderly Music's advice I went to Castiglione's. He was a bit dismissive of the "button box", but they obviously know their stuff there & have books to help. Among other things I picked up the 1 on concertina maintenance. He said I wouldn't need it, but I thought there were a few bits I might use. Turns out I was right since I've switched to concertinas. They love accordions there & freely admit that. Still, while they probably consider concertinas & melodeons poor cousins of the accordion, they are the ones to visit in this area for books, repair, & I'll check to see if they have any single-reed low G/Ds when I'm in their area next month.

My info about Castiglione is a few years old, but so far as I know it's still up to date. In late 2006 I was interested on trying out G/D Anglo after many years of playing C/G and I was looking for the least expensive decent G/D option. Klaus Guhl here on c.net had recommended the 20-button concertinas from Schaumanufaktur Klingenthal. I contacted them and they referred me to Castiglione as an American dealer of their concertinas. I got in touch with Castiglione and ordered a single-reed G/D. When it arrived, I realized that I should have asked whether it was a low G/D (the usual kind, pitched a fourth below a C/G) or a high one (pitched a fifth above). It turned out to be a high G/D, the opposite of what I wanted. Castiglione wasn't interested in giving me a refund but they were willing to do a full-price exchange for a double-reed, which has one low-pitched and one high-pitched reed per note, as Steve says. It's true that the sound was a bit different from a single-reed concertina, but it was a well-made instrument and I enjoyed playing it. After a while, I got an opportunity to buy a nice G/D 20-button Lachenal, switched over to that and eventually sold the Castiglione to another player. I completely agree with Steve's suggestion that you try out various options before making your decision if you can. You might want to contact Castiglione ahead of time to see what they have in stock. They do carry the Stagi line as well as their own brand. They don't know much a lot about concertinas (they're primarily an accordion dealer, a very big one) but I was satisfied overall with my dealings with them. Thanks yet again, Daniel. Before deciding a concertina was more of what I want, I picked up a melodeon from an antique dealer & then on Elderly Music's advice I went to Castiglione's. He was a bit dismissive of the "button box", but they obviously know their stuff there & have books to help. Among other things I picked up the 1 on concertina maintenance. He said I wouldn't need it, but I thought there were a few bits I might use. Turns out I was right since I've switched to concertinas. They love accordions there & freely admit that. Still, while they probably consider concertinas & melodeons poor cousins of the accordion, they are the ones to visit in this area for books, repair, & I'll check to see if they have any single-reed low G/Ds when I'm in their area next month.

Understandable. So far I can't find a Rochelle in D/G & if I'm going to pay that much I want it in a key I can also use for singing. I've seen Stagi panned, too. The Button Box has some Stagi D/Gs & states their prep makes the difference. If I understand correctly, I'd also be advised to travel there as shipping can cause problems, too. I'm not sure if that's just for problems caused by heat meaning it would be o.k. in the winter. My question to you was about me wondering if there was something that automatically lets you know it's not good enough just by looking at a picture even without knowing the manufacturer. I'm admittedly new to the instrument & find some people have concertinas w/o knowing whether the instrument is any good or not. I know the instrument needs to be played & inspected, but you seem to have some guidelines to instantly rule out some.

. . . FYI - Irish style uses melody only with no chords except for very experienced players. It's lovely and might be a bit faster to learn at first... but harmonic style is louder, more theatrical and offers more options for song accompaniment (IMHO). Have fun! Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Pop! See this thread for more info: http://www.concertin...showtopic=10398 Jim, I'm definitely a newbie with a 20 button C/G wanting eventually to afford a G/D to match my own singing in storytelling programs. I find Irish & especially Scottish music really seems made to order for the concertina. My guitar teacher suggested just adding in a note from a chord to accompany the melody wherever a chord normally might be used. I've tried it & also let my ear sometimes switch to an adjoining button. Is this considered "bad form" or does occasional playing of 2 harmonizing notes fit any particular style?

Arggghhh! Whenever I see a picture of something like that calling itself a concertina, my reaction is the same as when I see [...] on the telly. In the latter case I have this strong urge to throw a brick at the screen. O.k., Steve, I'm sure you're far beyond my level, but for those of us just starting out, what about the picture says it shouldn't be called a concertina? Hope you see this & have restrained your strong urges. LoiS<mile!>

Daniel, I especially thank you for this. Not only for what it says about weight, but the price ranges to plan towards my purchase beyond my present concertina, & especially since I live fairly close to Castiglione. LoiS

Scholer concertinas are definitely very nasty things indeed. They are little more than a toy, and a bad one at that. I made the mistake of buying one once very many years ago. It was almost unplayable. Stiff and wheezy, very badly tuned. It lasted a few weeks until one of the brass reeds broke. Another forum? Which one? This one is as good as it gets. Take the time to explore all the options. Here's a couple to get you started..... http://www.concertina.net/guide.html http://www.concertin...e_wherebuy.html Hi Steve, I'm definitely looking for a G/D (but may have to stick with just the C/G I have until I can afford it). It's always nice to have a larger range, which I presume is the reason for 30 buttons. My question has to do with weight. How does a 30 button compare with a 20? I decided to go with concertinas after finding a melodeon a bit heavy. My C/G would be dismissed by many as stiff, but it's getting me started & I'm definitely hooked, just wish the pitch were lower. I know from guitar that a drop D tuning works well for my lower voice.

Hi Bill, I was all set to forget the Scholer then you commented. IF it's a G/D I might pursue it, but was the one you had worth having because you had it made or . . . ? I'm a bit more forgiving, I guess than some, figuring it's a "beginner's instrument."

Daniel, Thanks so much for the picture. It definitely looks like what he was trying to describe. It also looks like this is a good instrument to pass. Think I'll go over to another forum to see how to judge a used concertina. I know about bellows & buttons, but obviously there's more to know. I tend to get around a bit where some might be. LoiS Otherwise known as firewood, and about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Don't touch it. Much better to deal with a company that knows about concertinas. Try the Button Box - you can get decent anglos in C/G and G/D suitable for beginners and yet will last you a bit beyond that stage too. http://www.buttonbox...inas.html#anglo Thanks, Steve. The Chinese import idea is just a guess, but it's probable. I'd love to hear somebody else recognize it, but the fact that there's no manufacturer's name leaves me suspecting the worst. . . but still hopeful, unfortunately.

Otherwise known as firewood, and about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Don't touch it. Much better to deal with a company that knows about concertinas. Try the Button Box - you can get decent anglos in C/G and G/D suitable for beginners and yet will last you a bit beyond that stage too. http://www.buttonbox...inas.html#anglo Thanks, Steve. The Chinese import idea is just a guess, but it's probable. I'd love to hear somebody else recognize it, but the fact that there's no manufacturer's name leaves me suspecting the worst. . . but still hopeful, unfortunately.