kevin toner

ps: 7. perhaps remember to practice what you preach, i.e. if you've ever been an advocate of utilising your choice of duplicated-button (available to EC players in all Eflats/Dsharps; Aflats/Gsharps). My underlying primary policy, since I started out, which I'm sure'll be pretty universal among most players/learners: is to mentally tag your duplicate depending on whether your playing in flats or sharps mode, i.e. if flattening an E then choosing the duplicate next to the E; or if sharpening a D then choosing opting for its twin next to the D. Same applying to the Aflats/Gsharps. What I'd be preaching though for bass/treble clef piano score stuff is to refrain from the principle in lieu of chosing what's best for fingering comfort. pps: 8. related to 7, I'd been conversely defaulting on the latter principle and was in a quandary of swapping fingers on a particular button (mid-note) for certain unreachable chorded progressions, i.e. on, all things, the opening intro bar to "MoY" up until 1-2 weeks ago. This is a key progression during a minum, which is repeated in all choruses at "Seems to"; "And they"; and "Ev'rything". What was I saying in my last post about Roberton heavily-stressing the problem EC chord right at the beginning of the piece? Yes, he's not alone, c/o the LWM Co.'s arrangers, in this case for Eubie Blake. Trust me to take on songs with key chords/progressions that are a nightmare for EC. It's been pure coincidence that the arrangers have started their pieces on these. Again, nothing as esoteric as "surely they're composing with an EC", as much as I'd like to believe. When I chose the antithetical duplicate for this progression, I asked myself "why didn't I do that 9 months ago?". Before swapping strategy to 'utilising antithetical duplicate' from 'mid note finger swapping' I tried desperately to finger swap without detriment at high tempo, but my T-T - because of its sensitivity - detects the change, albeit not during slowere tempos when there's time to swap. ppps: 9. [Almost at the starter for 10 pun]: There's however one other difficult progression in the piece requiring a different kind of move that I've done before on other songs but haven't discussed yet! This entails a finger pad that must slur from one button to another during an actual progression. Not saying where! Students will have to find for themselves. Till now, i.e. the last minute ago, I've been making that particular finger cross-over by 'travelling' it as quickly as possible since within a flurry of notes that probably mask the travelling. However, over the course of a mere 30 seconds, I've managed to get the finger pad to drape across the neighbour two button crossover with ease - phew! Final lesson completed on "MoY". YESSS! pppps: 10. related to 9, write on this forum discussion with your thoughts and you might well discover [virtually] another revelation before arrived at in the real world. ps further to post #9 as follows and extracted in [square brackets] : ["...,but taking a break to write due to the pain from 'repetitive bar practise strain' (RBPS) in getting there, during 30 minutes work or so. I'll tell you where the [secret] problem 1-finger-pad slur is then! It's at low A onto Lower D (a 5th lower), which is at the minims slurring between "Me-mo & ries of". Unfortunately, for me, only the 3rd finger can do this. If it were my index it'd be plain-sailing! The other choice is to slur from the [raised] F onto Lower D (a 3rd lower) using the middle finger in a Carlin friendly relationship (*1). I find the former an easier slur despite my comfort with doing a Carlin friendly relationship on the latter! *1 - as discussed/elaborated at post No. 5 I'd also tried what's best between the Carlin/Non-Carlin approach regarding the index/middle finger relationship on the 'C-&-lower-[raised]-F' 5th in respect of trying adjacently to get the 3rd finger to slur. I was just about to swap/rememorise onto the Carlin friendly option for comfort (i.e. middle below index) until I found that I couldn't slur the adjacent 3rd finger down as easily. So having reverted back to where I first started, what I did to achieve the slur at high tempo consistently, was to apply a door-handle action (*2) - and it then worked! This is when I had to stop, due to RBPS, not because of intensive LHS slurring work, but because of mindlessly hitting the low Aflat minim on the reciprocal side after 50+ goes! I do sometimes practise LHS & RHS independently, but this alters the bellow pressures and should be done just to help embed fingering memories, nothing more! *2 - as discussed at point No.5 of the original post (#1)..."] At point No.9: as bolded, I should say 'NOT with ease' actually. Tonight I tried to do this again with great difficulty! I did however find the solution required eventually. This is to depress the preceding low A minim by resting the third finger nail on it and propping the finger pad onto the lower D minim ready to simply lever it round off the A onto the D to pull off a proper slur. Nonetheless, the majority of the above points from 1-10 still apply, I still find! For a moment, I almost thought he'd really stumped us at that D minim (the aforemention problem "ries-of" minim), and that I'd have to revert back to the 'as quickly a travel as possible' method between the A and D. Nice to prove oneself that there was something more significant behind that minim than a mere pun or 2 surrounding it! Great elation is felt when playing as written as opposed to winging it, so it was worth the perseverance. Eubie Blake is in my good books again!

despite this progress, I've assessed from the five original Hugh S Roberton piano/voice scores the following: 1) that merely "Mingulay Boat Song" (in F) 1938 is perfect for a T-T; 2) "Air Falalalo" (in G) 1938 (where a 1/4 of bars are affected) would conversely be perfectly suited for a standard B-T; & 3) "Come Along" (in G) 1937 (where a 1/3 of bars are affected) would be ditto; 4) "Mairi's Wedding " (in G) 1937 also really deserves a B-T to beef up the occasionally lonesome G semi-breve octaves, although not disastrous, but also to improve/launch the wonderful progression at "All for sake o' Mai-ri" with a Baritone A note (i.e. an A2 rather than an A3). This could be one suitable for transposing slightly higher, which won't entail sending the tenor voice into soprano territory as would would certainly occur on transposing any of the others into the T-T's range; 5) "Westering Home" (in A) 1939 actually necessitates a bass (rather than a baritone) to celebrate the gradual 4 octave progression through "Light in the eye and it's goodbye to care", which is phrased over a 1/4 of the chorus. A contra-bass A & B is also occasionally necessary in my opinion... A baritone would be as good for this as a tenor-treble is for "AF" - pointless really unless transposed slightly higher up perhaps. Fortunately, because my T-T is more compatible with the more popular key signatures and because there's generally less sparsity (and therefore less of a prescribed nature) to the majority of my repertoire, I won't be needing a B-T for quite a while, a decade perhaps. ps: Songs 2 to 4 would be easy enough to play on B-T due to their sparsity of notes, where all I'd need to do is simply engage a choice of idle fingers to play the odd additional bassy note or drone. Song 5 would however be a total different ball game, but worthwhile, to recreate Roberton's intended score in full, provided there's a concertina that'd range between A1 to E5.

This decade cannot be ignored for its contribution to the modern standard, especially when the decade was introduced by the likes of: 1) Two of the most covered standards in history, “On the Sunny Side of the Street”; and ultimately 2) “Stardust”, as ready to go after two years without lyrics. [The latter is dated 1929, but became historically significant after its ballad [ification] by Jones in 1930 even without the aid of the 1929 lyrics]; and not forgetting 3) Two extremely notable numbers by Yellen/Ager: “Song of the Dawn” and “A Bench in the Park”. [Two informed points of view as to what caused such an incredible culturally inventive shift over the ‘30s are: 1) Commonly thought to be a response to ‘the Crash’; and 2) as I’d like to cite from Borsi, author of “The Monumental Era : European Architecture and Design” 1986, was ‘possibly a converse tendency in anticipation of war’. I think both are equally valid bidirectionally.] NOTE: There are three other books in the series too: THE TWENTIES; THE FORTIES; and THE FIFTIES! “Chattanooga Choo Choo” as currently being discussed on the Videos & Music discussion forum is in THE FORTIES, but will include the full piano score, probably with rather more intoxicatingly good guitar tablature than the basic freely available online humdrum. I’d concur that “It’s Foolish – But It’s Fun” from 1940 and including “Stardust” from 1929 are both aptly considered to be 1930s. NOTE: I’ve included the graphics credit for Carroll particularly because of his cover art for THE THIRTIES book, a perfect example of cross-bed 30s/70s graphics. See pic on Amazon! Marchbank as the art director has actually produced very significant illustration work depicting likewise, one might say, in a non- kitsch idiom here. Also, although I can play all of these already on the treble clef by combined memory/sight-reading, easily, I will be rememorizing the scores with bass clef as I’ve managed to do on “Memories of You”. However, I’ll be starting from the beginning (page 30) and turning the pages forward as I progress on each score. My strategy will be to skip those that are found to be more suitable for a Baritone-Treble (probably not more than half?), which will definitely include "Stardust". This is because I may one day acquire a B-T, which will entail much less doctoring - on the likes of “Stardust” - than if done with a T-T. This goes for every score that I assess. There’s plenty that my T-T is suited for, as “MoY” has proven. I’d begun to flesh out Stardust, prior to “MoY”, and loved every second of it. It is in the key of C, but is flooded with 7th (and Dim) chords to invariably take you onto the outer rows on probably well over 50% of the bars. “Sweet and Lovely”, which I’d also trialled, is likewise intoxicating, but is much less reliant on a B-T in my opinion; and I may therefore keep that one in T-T format. Please don’t be shy to have a go at these printed standards; or to share in further discussion of the songs, some of which have been previously discussed on other forums.

Here's the actual sequence of the edition that I have (Nb: year, writers, copyright, publisher, etc. will follow after other things) : Sophisticated lady, p30 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) On the sunny side of the street, p32 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Exactly like you, p35 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) I surrender dear, p38 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Star dust, p41 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Marta, p44 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Stormy weather, p47 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Have you ever been lonely, p50 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Basin Street blues, p52 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Little white lies, p55 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Back to those happy days, p57 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Between the devil and the deep blue sea, p59 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) A Bench in the park, p62 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Mood indigo, p65 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Song of the dawn, p67 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Memories of you, p70 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Lazybones, p75 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) When it's sleepy time down south, p73 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Auf wiedersehen my dear, p78 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) The Clouds will soon roll by, p81 (Lawrence Wright Music Co.) Harbour lights, p83 A-tisket a-tasket, p86 Blue moon, p88 Careless love, p90 I can dream can't I, p92 Ida (Sweet as apple cider), p94 I only have eyes for you, p96 It happened in Monterey, p99 It's foolish - but it's fun, p102 Lady of Spain, p104 Lovely lady, p107 Love is the sweetest thing, p110 Lullaby of Broadway, p112 Sweet and lovely, p115 Once in a while, p118 Red sails in the sunset, p120 Serenade in the night, p122 So deep is the night, p124 For all we know, p126 Who's taking you home to-night?, p128

Here are two great lists I'd love to share: I’m not sure about the latter one, which in my way of looking at it is a disguise of the former! I may become interested in the 151pp edition, which is practically identical (in all aspects) except for the non-Lawrence Wright Music Co. Songs, which comprise exactly 20 out of 40 scores that vary as per quite different publishers' sets. I’m surprised that the Glasgow’s Mitchell library has quite a few copies of the latter, but not the former to my knowledge. The former is luckily with the family. It’s what’d got me hooked I have to say, not because of the first LWMCo 20 songs, but also because of the remainder. What I find most odd is that, in the edition that I have (the 129pp ed.), the degree of melancholy appears to climax towards the last song, ergo giving the impression of WWII getting closer, notwithstanding that “Stormy Weather” & “Mood Indigo” are in the first half ergo so as not to split up the publishers’ sets. Have a look at the list for an impression, i.e. the former one that I think’s better at this stage! Having seen the 151pp Ed., I’m not that convinced that it’ll have the same magic/sequence of treasures, but I’ll be sampling nonetheless later as I cast my eye onto other future things. I expect to find the untried ones equally captivating. I bet many in the forum have a favourite on the lists. [And by the way! One more interesting thing! The blemished note that I found, conveniently in EC terms, at the third bar of the verse to “Memories of You” is scanned/circled here (and also as first discussed here at post #11) was luckily in this book [both Eds] out of all the others that I’d seen at the library. So critical was that blemish!] A veritable feast of photos; captions/quotes; and of course the sheet music scores. Here's what the front cover of the book states: It started with dole queues and ended with marching columns. But throughout those grim years, people never stopped singing. These are some of their favourite tunes. The Nineteen Thirties were tough, but they were always tuneful. Anyway here are the variant two lists in roughly alphabetical orders, I'll reply with the actual sequence list [of mine's] in a moment: A: THE THIRTIES : The Depression Decade (the decades series) ISBN: 0860012417 9780860012412 EMI Music Publishing Ltd. 129 p. : ill., music 28 cm. Series Title: Decades series. designed by Ken Carroll, text edited by Jonathon Green art directed by Pearce Marchbank. 1977 A-tisket a-tasket Auf wiedersehen my dear Back to those happy days Basin Street blues A Bench in the park Between the devil and the deep blue sea Blue moon Careless love The Clouds will soon roll by Exactly like you For all we know (Coots 1934) Harbour lights Have you ever been lonely I can dream can't I I only have eyes for you I surrender dear Ida (Sweet as apple cider) It happened in Monterey It's foolish - but it's fun Lady of Spain Lazybones Little white lies Love is the sweetest thing Lovely lady Lullaby of Broadway Marta (rambling rose of the wildwood) Memories of you Mood indigo On the sunny side of the street Once in a while Red sails in the sunset Serenade in the night So deep is the night Song of the dawn Sophisticated lady Star dust Stormy weather Sweet and lovely When it's sleepy time down south Who's taking you home to-night? B: THE THIRTIES : The Depression Decade (the decades series) ISBN: 0860012417 9780860012412 Chappell & Co Limited (?) 151 p. : ill., music 31 cm. Series Title: Decades series. text edited by Jonathon Green art directed by Pearce Marchbank. 1977 A bench in the park Auf Wiedersehen my dear Back to those happy days Basin Street blues Between the devil & the deep blue sea Easy to love Exactly like you Falling in love with love Good-bye Goody-goody Have you ever been lonely I apologise I didn't know what time it was I'll walk beside you In the still of the night Is it true what they say about Dixie? I surrender, dear Lazybones Let's call the whole thing off Little white lies Mad about the boy Marta Memories of you Mood indigo My funny Valentine On the sunny side of the street September song Someday I’ll find you Song of the dawn Sophisticated lady Star Dust Stay as sweet as you are Stormy weather The clouds will soon roll by The lady is a tramp The night is young and you're so beautiful They can't take that away from me When it's sleepy time down South Wish me luck as you wave me good-bye You are my heart's delight.

Chris, I've edited this former post in respect of 'sharp Vs flat' matters, but I'm certain that these observations will be already written down in b&w in the annals of concertina manual literature. So it probably doesn't have to be repeated. Can anyone point me to such literature then I'll know whether or not I'm writing in vain as I can be using sources instead?

I should have mentioned - to avoid confusion - that Carlin uses a different numerical nomenclature for fingers: Thumb = 1 ; Index = 2; Middle = 3; Third = 4; Pinky = 5. Apologies, for not pointing this out initially! So this's how you use Multi-quote, nice! b = symbol for flat # = symbol for sharp I should mention something fun during my recent assessment of finding a comfortable fingering at the above problem chord, which occurs as the first chord in the intro to "Memories of You" and as repeated in the phrases as cited above. This brings 3 discussions together in a way. The thumb, which Carlin refers to as a No.1 can indeed play a certain button or two if the thumb is fully through its strap as at point No.2 in my original post (#1). This is similar to the notion that a guitarist can bend a thumb round the neck to play on the low E string. Carlin hasn't implied such by numbering the finger. One of these buttons happens to be the Eb that I've opted to avoid using in lieu of its duplicate twin [D#] on the reciprocal LHS end - I've in fact successfully rememorised this chorded phrase and I won't be reverting! Surprisingly, it's as equally comfortable to instead play the natural Eb with the thumb, which likewise (to my final choice) doesn't entail a long-travelling-finger-swap mid note. In fact I would have had much less rememorising to do if I'd opted for thumbing this Eb6 Eb5 (ie on the RHS end) The two reasons I decided not to apply this was: 1) unnecessarily unorthodox; 2) because I had an accidental tear on the RHS thumb strap [i.e. caused many moons ago when attempting to punch a tighter strapping hole unsuccessfully] that was making the thumb reach seem to easy. It isn't so easy to do on the LHS strap because it's fully intact. I simply didn't want to get myself into that unnecessary sense of security and position of advocating a slightly torn strap, notwithstanding 1) above. at 2, I was a couple of years ago experimenting with thumb strap tightness. The tear was almost instantly in vain as I quickly warmed to slackness not tightness. They're now set more like my Granddad had them, albeit they're spares from Mr. David Leese, who's also kindly supplied me with a replacement reed and a couple of valves in the past. Yes, I've been very tight with what I've have as it's all in perfect working order, not without occasional maintenance. That said, I will advocate the converse if or when an instance requires it. I don't foresee it! Especially because the thumb-reachable notes are twinned keys (duplicated keys - Eb & D#) giving greater choice ergo a LHS or RHS option for playing the note. "Memories of You" was a near miss in this respect. I suppose this additional point mainly belongs in the Ergonomics form, where such strapping issues and similar things might have been previously discussed?

This is the model 21 as can be seen here on the wheatstone pricelists (as uploaded at concertina.com). You can gauge it against the other models such as my own as follows. My great Granddad's purchase (as my Granddad recalled, for "30 guineas", a veritable fortune back in 1912 when bought) of a risen metal ended model 19 at £24 + £1 (£25) equates to 4k to replace (if similar age) in the second hand market according to a valuation done by Chris based on my description. To replace with new by Wheatstone is 8k, which is similar to the original price based on RPI I think. Therefore, a model 21 for sale might be worth around - £11/25 x 4K = £1,760 in the UK, i.e. if it's in a comparably good condition. If you ever need a professional valuation, estimate, Chris' contact details are: Chris Algar Barleycorn Concertinas Located in Stoke-on-Trent, England Tel: + 44 (0) 1782 851449 Email:barleycorn@concertina.co.uk

This, once again, is not merely a problem minim. It entails the most challenging the encounter of a key slur [for a concertina ] to introduce the encircled D. [PS: also see post #17 for a variation.] This is more significant as a pun than I'd thought, so it goes into my curious notations hall of fame here My encircled note F "Raise F except for a model 16 B-T" (i.e. Wheatstone) refers to the most expensive 1930 EC concertina that there was, which goes down to this very F. Raise-F is another potential pun for the song's lyricist Razaf for us EC players, but it is the other pun (ries of = Raz-af) that would have perhaps caught the attention of vocalists like a later war-time Al Jolson, who's strong Ah's for every vowel was prevalent for his ascension during the war. Funnily when the song (or should I say a 'standard of standards' appeared in 1930, this is when Jolson dissapeared from superstardom. What a manner in which to return, although he missed out on the 1930s. Unfortunately he didn't ever sing Razaf/Blake's "memories of You" or should I say: "Memoraz av You" after he returned into superstardom with his biopics with those amazing Ah pronunciations!

A link to this notation is here. The Eflat5 is circled - not to be played by default on the RHS. At high tempo this note must be played as the duplicate Dsharp5 on the LHS Yes, not to be confused with the opening bar of the verse on the next stave. Should let players know also to expect considerable mid note finger swapping at the last bar in the verse, but this bar is conveniently slowed by rallentando phrasing, so no worries!

sorry if I've went too far on citing the 'distraction ' side of practising. But, if it wasn't for such an practise environment, I'd have not garnered the esoteric side of the songs so quickly! Furthermore, I've long had a name for these compositions. They're called silly songs. Alas, some great had already beat me to that description: "...But I gather'd my philosophy from the moods of a silly song...." in the verse of "It's foolish, but it's fun" 1940. This is in my 1930s book as a typical '30s exemplar notwithstanding that it's a 1940 tune. [incidentally Chatanooga choo choo - currently being discussed on the music discussion forum under swing on EC - is another surprising example of something as upbeat from 1941, but not of the same calibre - I guess the 1930s really did disappear after the likes of "It's foolish-but It's fun" in 1940, perhaps someone can prove me wrong as there'd have been undoubtedly further examples proper. They couldn't all fit into a '30s book. I'm glad the one I'd inherited had however inserted a 1940 exemplar.] Again, apologies!

Am finally there now! ,but taking a break to write due to the pain from 'repetitive bar practise strain' (RBPS) in getting there, during 30 minutes work or so. I'll tell you where the [secret] problem 1-finger-pad slur is then! It's at low A onto Lower D (a 5th lower), which is at the minims slurring between "Me-mo & ries of". Unfortunately, for me, only the 3rd finger can do this. If it were my index it'd be plain-sailing! The other choice is to slur from the [raised] F onto Lower D (a 3rd lower) using the middle finger in a Carlin friendly relationship (*1). I find the former an easier slur despite my comfort with doing a Carlin friendly relationship on the latter! *1 - as discussed/elaborated at post No. 5 I'd also tried what's best between the Carlin/Non-Carlin approach regarding the index/middle finger relationship on the 'C-&-lower-[raised]-F' 5th in respect of trying adjacently to get the 3rd finger to slur. I was just about to swap/rememorise onto the Carlin friendly option for comfort (i.e. middle below index) until I found that I couldn't slur the adjacent 3rd finger down as easily. So having reverted back to where I first started, what I did to achieve the slur at high tempo consistently, was to apply a door-handle action (*2) - and it then worked! This is when I had to stop, due to RBPS, not because of intensive LHS slurring work, but because of mindlessly hitting the low Aflat minim on the reciprocal side after 50+ goes! I do sometimes practise LHS & RHS independently, but this alters the bellow pressures and should be done just to help embed fingering memories, nothing more! *2 - as discussed at point No.5 of the original post (#1) Esoterically speaking, funny how the lyricist is Andy 'Razaf' when the last problem minim is 'ries of" - kind of checks-out if you ask me! Furthermore, just for the record and kind of related to the once mentioned 'distraction side of practise' as reported in one of my relatively recent posts:- 1) since starting the verses part of "MoY" after garnering confidence from Winter Wonderland & Roberton bass/treble clef memorising fairly recently, ergo to complete the entire "MoY" score (and since I'd achieved the chorus part as my first real primer on bass/treble clef piano scores' playing around almost a year ago albeit with much fine-tuning to do) and not without hesitance because of downtown noise/distractions, I've really only had two bad instances of RBPS during the entire "MoY" score. These have been at: 1) the first 2 bars of the verse as scanned here and again as previously discussed; & 2) the above fine-tuning on the above minim change, moments ago. In respect of the latter, and it's all to do with the exercise of memorising/re-memorising, I'd found a similarly gained upper hand strength over the distraction as I'd once experienced many moons ago during my bouts of repeated bar/s practise to begin learning the verse. However, and again, one must sing the lyrics to reveal that strength, not merely focus the brain vis-a-vis distractions/noises (or whatever is throwing one), but to have the last word. Let me explain this other underlying strength: If the lyric was "I'm so beat, I must give-up", then no mental strength is gained (lets call it going into battle without armoury on). However, the lyrics that launch "MoY" are "Why can't I forget like I should?" Yes, it's a typical failed relationship line, but if your trying to combat the distraction to learn the music on EC, it then translates as "Why can't I for[get]... like I should!" through the repeating of bits in order to memorise. When you sing aloud, you've won the battle. When you keep it to yourself, you've lost. I speak with certainty because, when you sing to focus; and then find that you are accidentally breaking down the bars to read veritable 'ON-YOUR-WAYs' you then get the feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment from the apparent [perhaps psychologically] reduced level of distraction... I Thank Mr Razaf for writing "Why can't I for[get]... like I should!" as I'd found the will to succeed with the entire verse, the rest of which is actually much harder to learn! 'Will' is however important! Thanks to Razaf once again (mere moments ago) as when I was half way through my 50+ bar repeats and decided to sing along (i.e. "Me - mo - ries - of") I think the gentleman who'd kindly been banging/hammering his gong directly across from me rather than quietly scraping off debris from his whatever was not wanting to here me sing, eventually, the word "y o u ----", but admittedly the minim switch 'Me-mo to ries-of' is definitely the biggest challenge incurs a stepping stone on a very specific fingering technique that reoccurs at the word "Tears", for me with great angst I hasten to say as reported below at post #17 onwards for a correct EC rendition. This bar wouldn't tax a piano though. Makes you wonder! ps Once accomplished though, it's fairly easy, not the more difficult instance at "Tears" though. Yet 'you' aint seen/heard nothing yet, as RAZAF is but mere child's play... in my hopefully growing 1930s repertoire! [there's a few types of gong etc. on the nearby building site that really shouldn't necessitate hammering - the worst was funnily during excavations works when a machine was letting off steam (from it's exhaust) but the cap cover was belting off the exhaust rim ergo to sound like an over avid worker hammering doctors hours i.e. for weeks until naturally spotted by me as it gradually approached that part of the site near my house - they could've put rubber around the flap, but no!... I'll stop there, because I'd need at least a dissertation's worth of word-count to fit everything in - i.e. since the start of the recession 3.75 years ago and counting. Funnily the vacated offices next to me that was curiously scaffolded [noisy trade yes] to be cleaned immediately after a relatively recent post of mines is now (contrary to the appearance that a huge travel centre resides there) 'for let/sale?' as offices for the first time during the recession - typical boards are up - very odd given its concealed abandonment behind a veil of window posters, like a vacated blacked out black van, but it is now the never-ending fit-out works that I'll have to endure as a supplement to the surrounding construction sites. I can discuss these classic distractions as tangible ones; it's the intangible ones that I'm not even going to begin trying to explain - albeit having tried on occasion to equally confused noise officers - perhaps a book/movie will ensue! Fit-outs really can be never-ending as tenants come and go. I feel now I should never've mentioned it and then it might never have been re-occupied. Only-kidding: it's good to see signs of economic recovery, perhaps not to hear them though... OH, enough rambling on, I'll stop there!]

Common? I may have encountered the idea once before, but not more than that. It would be similar, though, to replacing the low G# on a treble with F, the only alteration to the standard layout that I've seen in more than one example (not counting different ranges or transposing instruments). But I wonder why Bb, yet not B, A, or G? Well, I agree that extending this particular discussion should probably be done elsewhere and in its own thread, so I'll try starting a new topic after I get back from feeding the sheep (for my friend, who is away)... if you or someone else doesn't beat me to it. Jim, I believe my granddad got this done by Wheatstone when "changing to New Philharmonic pitch". He didn't explain why. It may have been a manufacturer's recommendation. I also think Simon Thoumire has inherited the same as per an article on Concertina.NetCom ps: at here cited on his 2nd last paragraph. My current thoughts as to why this might have occurred, given the questions 'why skip a B, or why not opt for an A or lower?' are: 1) Bagpipe drone; 2) An outer row would be best not to have a naturalised key in line with the EC layout in particular, n/a on other layouts, to reduce the level of being out of kilter; 3) A Bb facilitates several popular key signatures (Eb,Bb,F,Ab) that also happen to be popular EC keys too given reduced middle row work, which in my opinion is a bigger advantage than having a duplicate Eb[D#]; 4) limitations on the level of solder? Any more thoughts or any knowledge on the history of this modification in respect of the EC layout in particular? Brass mostly are based in flat keys eg F Bflat or Eflat (and on the odd day that I play EC in my partners (very) amateur orchestra, these keys seem much commoner than G,D or A - maybe to help out the clarinets and brass Flugel, horn, euphonium and trumpet! So perhaps EC's that come from a Salvation Army background would have any mods made to ease these keys. Chris Thanks Chris, which is probably the crux of it. This accords with my granddad's statements on 1) the popularity of concertinas within the S.A. at the time of his modification before the war; & 2) possibly also as concertina bands' covered the exact same wideness of range as the brass bands, I'd say as a further possible influence upon Wheatstone (source: recorded interviews by S.Eydmann). Whether Danny was coaxed or tempted by Wheatstone I do not know. He could play instantaneously in any key, so he wouldn't have been fussed in either way! Danny was an excellent 'one-man-bagpipes'-band' imitator between inter-sessions - perhaps he warmed to a suggestion from Wheatstone to modify the duplicate. [off the record: He was not a fan of typical S.A. bands, which he argued [in tandem with the introduction of accordions] had dampened the Concertina's wider appeal due to their lack of musicality, despite his appreciation of quality Concertina Bands, which he seen as a quite different animal, not merely because his uncle Dan Green arranged for one of the best. I believe I also have sound material of an elderly Dan Green playing at an informal family get-together. My task will be to catalogue and digitise everything we have. Not even 1% there yet because of my other activities, but will get there!]

"Why Bb2 to modify duplicated Eb3 on EC?" Another thing in the heading that'll be discouraging discussion is perhaps the use (shorthand) of numbers to explain the key position relative to middle C (C4). ps: for the avoidance of doubt on this kind of numbering: immediately below C4 is B3 and immediately above C4 is D4. This numbering is based on the piano layout counting from C0 (4 octaves down). I believe this is how vocalist's/pianists number notes and it's therefore possibly the international language (Esperanto) to be using for such discussions. This makes the title/discussion less wordy, but your call folks! ps Jim, regarding this occurring on a plain treble is a different debate. I don't think it's an issue a 5th up or down the octave as all lower buttons have great adjacencies to have: i.e. A with Ab; G with a duplicate Ab; B with a Bb; and finally C with a C# ergo absolutely no problem! However, this might beg the fairly valid question on the Tenor Treble 'lower keys' question, i'e "Why [not a useful C#3 duplicate too, or a] Bb2 to modify duplicated Eb3 on EC?" My answer to that would be "C# fine if you're a player who requires to do a lot of work in the key of D as in common traditional/folk playing, but Bb better". Not my cup of tea yet I'm afraid, but very valid question Jim! C#3 would offer similar advantages to Bb2 as follows: 1a) wouldn't offer a bagpipe drone; 2a) also less out of kilter than having a natural (non flat/sharp) key; but arguably even more in kilter than would be the preferred Bb as a C# naturally falls below a duplicate Ab a 5th (half octave) up or down; 3a) also facilitates a popular key signature (D) and sharpening of the C note (popular in G to D bridges...etc?? ); and likewise constituting less middle row effort; 4a) also works within the limitations on the level of solder, if the are any, but means even less solder than used for a Bb modification. Thanks Jim for prompting this discussion and extra question. Does anyone have experience of a duplicate C# (or for that matter any more with a Bb2 as I [and Simon Thoumire] have) on their Tenor-Trebles or equivalents? Any more knowledge out there on this, please refer back here to help keep the discussion in the one place!

Show it to someone knowledgeable in historical fashions (a theatrical costume designer, for instance). These guys look fashionably dressed. Thanks David, I'd been thinking the exact same thing. Great minds think alike! He was born in Glasgow on 7 Jan 1918 and died there on 3 Dec 2002. He spent 3 decades in Canada from around the mid 1950s to 1980s... Meanwhile All, please don't hesitate in trying to pinpoint the year. I'll put my head above the parapet and say 1937. Will post back if/when I get an informed date estimation.

D# = Eb! Also interesting that Wheatstone advised/decided to replace the D#[Eb] with the [advantageous] Bb by going adjacent to the D on the LHS rather than to the E on the RHS where its twin lies. I believe this was in respect of the players' mental picture of duplicates as previously/recently discussed by me on the teaching and learning discussion forum here at Point No.7 in post #6. This also accords with the former advantage at point 3 above since This D# merely facilitates the key signatures of E (4 sharps) & B (5 sharps) at best in terms of a conventional mapping of D# i.e. not as an Eb duplicate where it does offer flexibility in commoner keys. Ergo a D#[Eb] next to D is commonly preferred to be understood as a D# rather than as another Eb, i.e. the mapping of flats/sharps determined by: 1) firstly and primarily adjacency; and then 2) lastly or secondarily by their duplicate location on the reciprocal face. Again though, as per the other discussion, this is a dogma that must be dropped when playing complex piano scores, where duplicates are a blessing. However, overall, I would contend that having the Bb2 instead of a duplicate Eb3[D#3] is a bigger advantage in spite of my advocacy for utilising duplicates. I've therefore included an addendum (edit) above at 3. ps: NEW THREAD HEADING! This should've therefore been titled: 1) Why Bb2 to modify duplicated Eb3 on EC ; OR 2) Why Bb2 to modify D#3 on EC pps: basically 1) & 2) are the same heading, but are more semantically correct!

Here, is an old photo of him as a young man. Can anyone hazard a guess at the date? A video clip and photo selection on its way shortly!

...also known as a 'constant screamer' 'concert screamer' too! and 'teenae' (the pronunciation of the Glasgow slang for Tina)

Common? I may have encountered the idea once before, but not more than that. It would be similar, though, to replacing the low G# on a treble with F, the only alteration to the standard layout that I've seen in more than one example (not counting different ranges or transposing instruments). But I wonder why Bb, yet not B, A, or G? Well, I agree that extending this particular discussion should probably be done elsewhere and in its own thread, so I'll try starting a new topic after I get back from feeding the sheep (for my friend, who is away)... if you or someone else doesn't beat me to it. Jim, I believe my granddad got this done by Wheatstone when "changing to New Philharmonic pitch". He didn't explain why. It may have been a manufacturer's recommendation. I also think Simon Thoumire has inherited the same as per an article on Concertina.NetCom ps: at here cited on his 2nd last paragraph. My current thoughts as to why this might have occurred, given the questions 'why skip a B, or why not opt for an A or lower?' are: 1) Bagpipe drone; 2) An outer row would be best not to have a naturalised key in line with the EC layout in particular, n/a on other layouts, to reduce the level of being out of kilter; 3) A Bb facilitates several popular key signatures (Eb,Bb,F,Ab) that also happen to be popular EC keys too given reduced middle row work, which in my opinion is a bigger advantage than having a duplicate Eb[D#]; 4) limitations on the level of solder? Any more thoughts or any knowledge on the history of this modification in respect of the EC layout in particular?

OK will say what: If I was able to purchase this, I'd check to see if the Dsharp3 reed tongue has been soldered-up down to a Bflat2; and if not, I'd have it done. I think that this might have been a common thing in the past, but that's for the concertina history forum I suppose...! Thanks for posting onto the forum and best wishes for the sale

It's very beautiful, thanks! Would love to give it a squeeze to compare how like for like it actually is. I'd use as a spare when getting my Aeola serviced, i.e. if we come out of recession and I land a paid job! If I'm in the vicinity or passing I'll try and get in touch with you. 2 things I'd undoubtedly need to adjust is: 1) change to 8-fold bellows; 2) match a modification that has been done to my equivalent Aeola - not saying what! and 3) get hand straps fitted [PS : oh good, the hand strap holes are pre-fitted, excellent!]. Otherwise the mimicry is just about there. I'm sure the experts will be able to point out the mechanical and sound nuances. To me, simply its sound would coax me! Looks similar age to mines, i.e. 100years! Out of interest does anyone know the date of this?

A link to this notation is here. The Eflat5 is circled - not to be played by default on the RHS. At high tempo this note must be played as the duplicate Dsharp5 on the LHS

I should have mentioned - to avoid confusion - that Carlin uses a different numerical nomenclature for fingers: Thumb = 1 ; Index = 2; Middle = 3; Third = 4; Pinky = 5. Apologies, for not pointing this out initially!

ps: 7. perhaps remember to practice what you preach, i.e. if you've ever been an advocate of utilising your choice of duplicated-button (available to EC players in all Eflats/Dsharps; Aflats/Gsharps). My underlying primary policy, since I started out, which I'm sure'll be pretty universal among most players/learners: is to mentally tag your duplicate depending on whether your playing in flats or sharps mode, i.e. if flattening an E then choosing the duplicate next to the E; or if sharpening a D then choosing opting for its twin next to the D. Same applying to the Aflats/Gsharps. What I'd be preaching though for bass/treble clef piano score stuff is to refrain from the principle in lieu of chosing what's best for fingering comfort. pps: 8. related to 7, I'd been conversely defaulting on the latter principle and was in a quandary of swapping fingers on a particular button (mid-note) for certain unreachable chorded progressions, i.e. on, all things, the opening intro bar to "MoY" up until 1-2 weeks ago. This is a key progression during a minum, which is repeated in all choruses at "Seems to"; "And they"; and "Ev'rything". What was I saying in my last post about Roberton heavily-stressing the problem EC chord right at the beginning of the piece? Yes, he's not alone, c/o the LWM Co.'s arrangers, in this case for Eubie Blake. Trust me to take on songs with key chords/progressions that are a nightmare for EC. It's been pure coincidence that the arrangers have started their pieces on these. Again, nothing as esoteric as "surely they're composing with an EC", as much as I'd like to believe. When I chose the antithetical duplicate for this progression, I asked myself "why didn't I do that 9 months ago?". Before swapping strategy to 'utilising antithetical duplicate' from 'mid note finger swapping' I tried desperately to finger swap without detriment at high tempo, but my T-T - because of its sensitivity - detects the change, albeit not during slowere tempos when there's time to swap. ppps: 9. [Almost at the starter for 10 pun]: There's however one other difficult progression in the piece requiring a different kind of move that I've done before on other songs but haven't discussed yet! This entails a finger pad that must slur from one button to another during an actual progression. Not saying where! Students will have to find for themselves. Till now, i.e. the last minute ago, I've been making that particular finger cross-over by 'travelling' it as quickly as possible since within a flurry of notes that probably mask the travelling. However, over the course of a mere 30 seconds, I've managed to get the finger pad to drape across the neighbour two button crossover with ease - phew! Final lesson completed on "MoY". YESSS! pppps: 10. related to 9, write on this forum discussion with your thoughts and you might well discover [virtually] another revelation before arrived at in the real world.

Now Roberton! His scores have few notes, but their general difficulty, with the exception of Westering Home in the key of A, emanates from being written in keys with 1 flat or sharp, i.e. 3No. in G and another in F from the 5 in my repertoire. As we all know by now, such keys are not winners on EC, due to the confinement suffered on having to play intensely to merely the middle 2 rows of the layout. However, here’s another of my curiosities that’s significant enough to go onto my ‘curious notes hall-of-fame': It turns out to be a 3 note RHS chord when combining treble/bass clefs. Here's a link to such chords, accumulating here I’m beginning to think that some of the arrangers that I’ve been incidentally focussing on happened to write their scores using ECs! This particular example is stamped right at the beginning of “Mairi’s Wedding” in the first bar where the chord is hit six times in a kind of “We Will Rock You” type (..> ..>) rhythm, which is supplemented on the LHS with a low D3 (and if you have a B-T EC, if not a piano, then a low G2 on the RHS can also be added). This chord happens to reoccur as the most difficult chord in the poco marcato phrase at hill-ways and later at shieling [incidentally all reachable on a basic treble EC, despite a supplemental G4 note on the LHS]; and also happens to be pivotal in the arrangement of "Air Falalalo" as I’ll mention later. Firstly, I recall when an orchestrator Roy Fox was introducing a medley containing (thirdly) a brief rendition of "Marta", which had seemed to recite or stumble on a difficult but momentary chord combination from Marta when it was played intoxicatingly by the xylophonist during Fox’s verbal introduction of the Medley to the audience. Although when the “Marta” section had arrived, the passage that had these particular chords was skipped. Perhaps it was too much to implement in full orchestral terms and yet possibly too good to ignore... I imagined, from that point on, that an introduction can act as a primer or aide memoire to key and/or challenging passages, notes, and chords. This is what I’m gaining from Roberton’s heavily stressed G chording to introduce “MW”, not as a [grade 1] pianist who would play it blind, but as a concertinist who’d struggle not merely with the instance on “MW”, but surely also with its instance on “AF” too where the chording is not merely pivotal at the last word of each verse (i.e. eye; sing; song) or at the end of each chorus, but where the correct fingering is absolutely critical to the ascending 3rds shortly beforehand en-route to the G chording. See link to "AF" notation here There’s a slight ‘coming of age’ story about all this including the common reassertion in regard to playing such chords in the key of C as follows! It was merely a week ago that I’d realised that this - basically triangular shape G chord of thirds (ie G3,B3,D4 - G3 as the root base button) - should be played in a ‘middle, 3rd, index’ configuration. I’d initially entrusted an opposing ‘pinky,3rd,middle’ that was intermediately working for me on the same chording at "Air Falalalo" as for some reason I’d been trying to avoid the textbook ‘middle, 3rd, index’ [aka 3,4,2 – for block chords and progressions: R. Carlin 1977 p17, which Carlin cites will ”...develop good habits”*] consciously in order to strengthen my 2,4,3 hand through the years as that had been invariably weaker except inversely stronger when reaching for the piccolo end; and I think because I’d been conversely discovering greater possibilities using the latter for certain things, [ps as unfolds] e.g. probably high pitched chording among other things. No, I think I remember now: I remember being less dexterous in reaching for lower notes on my relatively recently acquired 56key T-T - in mid 2003 - having been hitherto accustomed to a treble (1896 New Model). I think the 2,4,3 configuration might have come to my aid at certain times whereas now it probably won’t be an issue. I won’t know for sure until I re-chart the territory that made me think this. I’ve been focussing on very few songs in my repertoire during the last year due to exploring bass clef – I think I’m now over the worst and can now progress back on to the rest of my repertoire. I’m sure 3,4,2 Vs 2,4,3 has undoubtedly been debated here before. I’d personally like to concur with Carlin’s recommendation, especially now when I can see that it is more aligned to the orientation of the keyboard axis despite appearing more scrunched than the latter does. It is however, as I implied a moment ago, an advantage that disappears the further up that the middle finger has to travel until it struggles to bend, i.e. at the higher notes. There’s obviously a crossover point when one beats the other and I suppose this differs from player to player. On “AF”, I’d tried to do the latter too low [at G3 as root]. The strain prompted me to employ the aforementioned pinky configuration, i.e. swap the index with the pinky (5,4,3), before opting for Carlin’s 3,4,2. In fact, I’d contend that 5,4,3 is equally if not more comfortable excepting 1) the ascended 3rds in “AF” and 2) when phrased in “MW” during the poco marcato bar. I’d originally dropped the G3 in this poco marcato phrase over the last few years until recently... - laziness! However, I’d initially struggled in adding this G3 based on the ‘pinky,3rd,middle’ (5,4,3) configuration, which is the next most comfortable triangular configuration of scrunching the 3 fingers together that low down. Interestingly on the LHS [at the third chord along in the phrase – a C4 rooted triad block chord] I appear to be having no such trouble whatsoever in keeping with the non-Carlin 2,4,3 [which - I say once again - was a triad configuration that I’d appeared to be formerly advocating perhaps inter alia a former lack of dexterity] even although it is merely half a button space lower down than the C4 example on the LHS higher than the comparably uncomfortable G3-rooted equivalent on the RHS. [ps: This tells me what my make-or-break point is in my ability to play non-Carlin [figure of speech] 2,4,3 configurations as low as possible, i.e. comfortably in phrases. This point for me is at the root G3 triad on the RHS, which I repeat launches Roberton's "MW". Nothing is esoteric in all this in that the composer has simply fronted a score in the key of G with a very plain block chord in G, which albeit happens to need the EC players' utmost attention. Again, it's not something that would tax a pianist.] I went to the tina there momentarily to try nevertheless substituting this C4 block chord on the LHS with a (Carlin friendly) 2,4,3 and there was equally no trouble excepting a slight unfamiliarity. However, I know I won’t be adopting the Carlin configuration here because, on further inspection, when the same chord is played in the chorus at Heel for; and at All for, the phrasing (sequence) will only permit the non-Carlin method at speed. I have a secret though at this point – I let the index finger pad play both C and the above G simultaneously for an even smoother transition. If I make any change, I might adopt this finger pad trick during the poco marcato phrase instance albeit not strictly necessary, but simply to induce the memory that it’s required elsewhere. Which brings me full-circle! This would be the very same reasoning behind why I would want to introduce “MW” with the Carlin configuration (with the G3 triad chord) rather than the equally comforting pinky configuration, i.e. to simply familiarise with the configuration because of the demand for it challenge of it when sandwiched within at the poco marcato phrase. A veritable warm-up as implied earlier! Before anyone asks, I just tried there to do the two buttons’ finger pad trick on the G3 chord, but couldn’t bend the 3rd finger’s first joint in the same manner as the index finger. Applying the index that low down also means too much travelling for the index up to the subsequent chord. Therefore, I believe I now have the piece perfected. Simply now a matter of familiarising on that final single fingering change, i.e. to play the RHS G3 triad chord throughout “MW” & “AF” using the Carlin method. Learning the hard way one might say! However, everyone’s different, or as Ransom has pointed out above, not when 3rd fingers are involved. Feel free to add, agree or disagree! [Carlin's recommendation - as asterisked above - also appears to be very helpful for easing certain (albeit a minority of) progressions in traditional fiddle compositions. I think, I perhaps made an early mistake by over subscribing to Carlin's recommendations at the expense of equally necessary 'index-middle' progressions, although I'm happy I've strengthened in a 3-finger respect. I'm still a little annoyed by having realised recently that 'index-middle' playing appears to be far more prevalent for the majority of progressions. However, it's great when you can easily command 3-finger progressions when necessary. I will however have more catching up to do as a result in choosing what's best for progressions in tradition fiddle music, whether it's: 1) index-middle playing; or 2) three finger playing, as each definitely does have its place, i.e. on a bar-to-bar (not tune-by-tune) basis.]