Ralph Jordan
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Posts posted by Ralph Jordan
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So what is the ideal number of buttons on a Crane duet?
Hi Paul.
Well the only player I know is Tim Laycock. He has at least two, and one is about the same size as mine, the other slightly bigger. Have to say, you don't see many Crane players around on the Folk Scene in the UK. Same with Jeffries Duets.
Bigger Cranes must exist I suppose, but I can't recall ever having seen one.
Maybe a chat with Chris Algar might help. He's registered here.
Good Luck with your quest
Ralphie
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Here's my 71 and an example of what you can do with a larger duet. Only 138 numbers earlier than this one, but probably a little softer than it because of having lots of dural instead of brass. One take and warts and all but it gives an idea of what you can do; this is a bit of Schumann well known to all piano learners. Couldn't do it on less than a 71, I don't think.
Hi Mr Dirge...!
Just had a listen to the Schumann bit...Remember it from my youth!!
Jolly nice too. Yes, it would be very tricky on a 58. But thats the wonderful versatility of the beast, isn't it?
My style of playing is much more idiosyncratic. Am in the middle of doing a couple of tracks for the "Duet International" CD set due out next year.
I'm very much a "By Ear" man. One of the first pieces I attempted was 3/6 ths of Peter Warlocks Capriol Suite...Learnt from my brothers EP!! (Not a dot in sight!).
Obviously it's not grammatically correct (in the music sense!). But it can still raise the hairs on the back of my neck when I get it right!! (not very often!!)
Hope to hear more of your playing sometime!!
Regards Ralphie
PS. Thanks Irene for putting up the pics..... Will need a CD Rom of them sometime. Hard Drive totally knackered..Lost everything! x
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Hi,
I don't usually post, but I would like some clarification here from anyone else who plays a MacCann duet, as I am seriously looking to start playing one myself.
I have looked up the fingering charts laid out very nicely in Rutterford, Ernest.
A Practical and Comprehensive Tutor for the Duet Concertina
The first fingering chart that goes down to Low C is shown as 58 key instrument, which would make Ralph's instrument either modified, or custom built. Incidently I'd love to know more about your concertina Ralph, like which make, it's size etc. Pics would be great!
I understand from speaking to other players the importance of having this extended range and overlap, but was wanting to be sure as to wether I should be looking for a 56 or 58 key instrument, wether 56 key instruments tuned down to low c on the right hand are common or not. I know it's only a 2 key difference, but I want to be looking for the right thing.
I want the smallest instrument possible that will be suitable for folk and classical music.
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
-Joe-B^)
Hi Joe. Back on line now (via a friends laptop!)
Yes Irene is right as usual! I just always included the air button! Never realised there was some sort of convention!
I have two Duets. Both Wheatstones and metal ended. One 6-sided and one Aeola.
Apart from he shape they are pretty much identical, (although the Hexagonal one is louder If thats possible!).
That one is on loan to Irene at the moment, but I think it's about 29000 ish..puts it early 1920s at a guess. No doubt someone will put me right!!
I actually have the original receipt for the aeola. Interesting read...
Buyer Mr F Rolls
Date purchased 1st October 1924 (Coming up to its birthday then!)
Number 30271
Price (plus case) 26 Pounds 10 Shillings
Tax 10% 2 Pounds 13 Shillings
Cash Discount !! 1 Pound 13 Shillings
Total 27 Pounds 10 Shillings.
Oh for those prices to be still current today!
As for pics..Irene has some. I think, of both boxes. Until I hopefully get my hard drive back I won't know if I've still got them, (or indeed anything else!). So, over to you Irene...Happy for you to stick them up on here.
And in my Profile pics on Facebook there are few pics of me playing the aeola at variou gigs.
Good luck with you quest, you are making a wise choice!
As for size...I'm just looking at a pic of Tommy Williams. For a thin old bloke he seems to handling an 80 something box whith comparative ease!! Must eat more spinach.
Ralphie
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Can anyone advise on these.
I have a smaller Maccann which I find limiting. At Whitby I was in a session where Iris Bishop played a bigger one and I was pretty inspired I looked at one on a stall at the craft fair which had 55 buttons. What is best for someone who wants to play in the mainly trad keys but put chords in and with a decent range. I don't think I'll ever get too many keys and chords on my Anglo as I've gone down the ITM route buta have along the rows as my natural default having grown up with mouthorgan and one row melodeon (although John Kirkpatrick's chord workshop was also inspiring)
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike
I saw that 55 button at Whitby on Chris Algar's stand ... but it 's lowest button on the right hand was a G. Before I bought my 61k in May I received advice from someone who's been playing for 35 years that I should consider a 57 or 61 key, which went down to middle C on the right hand, and had an octave crossover. It was suggested to me that I personally did not really need a 71 key - but I'm sure that Dirge, who plays a 71 , would disagree!! I believe Iris has actually got two Maccanns at least ... but cannot for the life of me remember what sizes they were. I suspect someone more knowledgeable will be along in a minute
It's not really clear from that question whether you're asking for advice about Maccanns, or about all other types of concertina, in view of your asking about "playing in the mainly trad keys" - since a Maccann is chromatic. Quick ... where are the REALLY knowledgeable people on here??? (I speak with all of the gravitas of someone who's been playing for 18 months...)Thanks Irene
I suppose I was asking 'what's the best number of buttons for what I want to do which is mainly trad?'.
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike.
I'm the bloke about whom Irene was talking!
I started on a 48 Macann. Quickly found it too limiting, so moved up to a 56.
Have played nothing else for 30 years. As Irene says, though, it's vital that it goes down to C on the right, and that you have that octave repeated on both sides...
These are slightly rarer. (a lot only go down to G on the right, which means you get loads of dog scaring notes at the very top end, which, quite frankly you'll never use! And why pay money for notes that you're not going to play)
Have dabbled with boxes in the 60's and 70 key sizes,(and bigger!) but the disadvantage is the reaction time of the reeds particularly if you want to get some speed up.
I play both for song accompaniment, and in several English Dance bands. so, I need the versatility of the 56 key box.
It'll suit you down to the ground for folk song and tune stuff....
As for the really big buggers....a) They're much heavier and
You press a button and wait 5 minutes for a note to appear!!The 56 has served me well for a long time, and I'm still discovering new avenues with it.
FYI, My home keys are.
Majors
C,G,D,A,E
F,Bb,Eb, and a little bit of Ab if the winds in the right direction!
Minors
Am,Em,Bm, F sharp m,Dm,Cm.
That seems to cover most tunes! and I can normally adapt to any singer that I'm playing with.
Hope the above helps...But, you'll have hours of fun with a 56 Key!!!
Good luck
Ralph
Hi Ralph.I own the 72 key Wheatstone Maccann,& I can assure you that if the response was as slow as you say,I certainly wouldn't have bought it. If anything,the response is faster than the smaller & cheaper models.Cheers,Norman.
Hi Norman. Apologies. No offense meant. But I'm sure you've seen some fairly ropey boxes in your time!!
I'm sure your box is well set up, It's just that for me, a 72 key would be a waste. I doubt that I would ever explore it's outer reaches with the style that I play in!
Maybe to see it sometime.
Cheers Ralph
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Can anyone advise on these.
I have a smaller Maccann which I find limiting. At Whitby I was in a session where Iris Bishop played a bigger one and I was pretty inspired I looked at one on a stall at the craft fair which had 55 buttons. What is best for someone who wants to play in the mainly trad keys but put chords in and with a decent range. I don't think I'll ever get too many keys and chords on my Anglo as I've gone down the ITM route buta have along the rows as my natural default having grown up with mouthorgan and one row melodeon (although John Kirkpatrick's chord workshop was also inspiring)
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike
I saw that 55 button at Whitby on Chris Algar's stand ... but it 's lowest button on the right hand was a G. Before I bought my 61k in May I received advice from someone who's been playing for 35 years that I should consider a 57 or 61 key, which went down to middle C on the right hand, and had an octave crossover. It was suggested to me that I personally did not really need a 71 key - but I'm sure that Dirge, who plays a 71 , would disagree!! I believe Iris has actually got two Maccanns at least ... but cannot for the life of me remember what sizes they were. I suspect someone more knowledgeable will be along in a minute
It's not really clear from that question whether you're asking for advice about Maccanns, or about all other types of concertina, in view of your asking about "playing in the mainly trad keys" - since a Maccann is chromatic. Quick ... where are the REALLY knowledgeable people on here??? (I speak with all of the gravitas of someone who's been playing for 18 months...)Thanks Irene
I suppose I was asking 'what's the best number of buttons for what I want to do which is mainly trad?'.
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike.
I'm the bloke about whom Irene was talking!
I started on a 48 Macann. Quickly found it too limiting, so moved up to a 56.
Have played nothing else for 30 years. As Irene says, though, it's vital that it goes down to C on the right, and that you have that octave repeated on both sides...
These are slightly rarer. (a lot only go down to G on the right, which means you get loads of dog scaring notes at the very top end, which, quite frankly you'll never use! And why pay money for notes that you're not going to play)
Have dabbled with boxes in the 60's and 70 key sizes,(and bigger!) but the disadvantage is the reaction time of the reeds particularly if you want to get some speed up.
I play both for song accompaniment, and in several English Dance bands. so, I need the versatility of the 56 key box.
It'll suit you down to the ground for folk song and tune stuff....
As for the really big buggers....a) They're much heavier and
You press a button and wait 5 minutes for a note to appear!!The 56 has served me well for a long time, and I'm still discovering new avenues with it.
FYI, My home keys are.
Majors
C,G,D,A,E
F,Bb,Eb, and a little bit of Ab if the winds in the right direction!
Minors
Am,Em,Bm, F sharp m,Dm,Cm.
That seems to cover most tunes! and I can normally adapt to any singer that I'm playing with.
Hope the above helps...But, you'll have hours of fun with a 56 Key!!!
Good luck
Ralph
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Hi All.
Was pleased to meet Ray the other day, and he provided me with the LNE recordings.. (Why does that make me happy!!?)
The recordings are a fair representation of the mayhem that went on that night!
They might one day see the light of day, but, I'm not sure if anyone would want to hear them.
Seriously, it is a lovely homage to Nigels memory.
Only Nigel could have persuaded such a disparate band of reprobates to concoct such a band in 5 days at a festival, when all the participants were busy with their own gigs.
But, that was how Nigel was. He said jump, and we all jumped!
Thanks Ray.
And RIP to Nigel and Len.
Ralph
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I'm curious about "Len the Bones," I've never heard of him. From the picture, it looks like he knows what he's doing. What more can you tell me about him? A web search on that name doesn't turn up anything. Are there any recordings of him?
As a bones player myself, I'm a bit curious. See http://bones.JeffLeff.com/ if you like.
Hi again.
I never knew Lens surname. But he was an excellent bones player. (Not normally a fan of the instrument, mainly because so many people are rubbish at it, Shaky eggs syndrome!)
I think he died a few years ago, maybe a request on Mudcat might turn up something.
IIRC I don't think we even asked him to play that night, he was just there!! (He was always "just there"!)
But, considering the musical carnage that was going on that night, it didn't seem to matter!
Oh, and I'm sure Alan Rawlinson was playing Trombone too!
Toodle pip
Ralph
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Hi Alan.
You're probably correct.
Maybe the Hop did another night. I've been reminded that Laurie Harper was also in the string section.
Not sure if Bill Martin was playing keyboards.
Could well have been. It was a bit of a bun fight after all!
Ah well. It matters not in the great scheme of things.
I'm just so happy that I was lucky enough to have been involved.
RIP Nigel. And thanks for the Millet Curry and the Pina Coladas.
Thanks to all for your memories.
Ralphie
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OK.
As definitive as I can remember! Year 1982/3?
Eric (Me, Nigel and Colin Thompson were asked to do LNE on maybe the Thursday?
We realised very early in the week that a trio trying to lead a bunch of drunks at an LNE was not really on!
So, Nigel started offering the kings shilling to all musos available, and with his inate charm (Be there or else!) managed to put together the band that has been referred to.
Although the memory of that night has been mailnly expunged. I'll try and list who I vaguely remember turning up.
Caller either Roger Watson or Eddie Upton (maybe both?)
ERIC. (Stars of the show natch!)
In no particular order.
Fiddles.
Fi Fraser (maybe doubled on Clarinet)
Taz Tarry
Flos Headford
Paul Burgess.
Brass.
Johnny Adams
Roger Watson
Glyn Birch
Jo Freya (Whistles and saxes)
Chris Coe (Hammer Dulcimer)
Packie Byrne (Whistle and smiling!)
Len the Bones (Bones!)
Pierce Butler Drums (I think)
Ian Blake (Clari and Sax)
Judy (Pipes)
Thats about all I can remember, and profuse apologies to all I have missed out.
It was one of those gigs.
And to whoever has a recording. I would love to hear it!!
Regards Ralphie.
Poor FOH engineer had to be carried out!
Happy Days though.
PS I was playing with Jo Freya on Hard Times and The Blacksmith, and have no memory of that at all!
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Woops Posted twice!
Missing or stolen Castagnari
in Buy & Sell
Posted
Please everyone. Take Photographs of all instruments. Serial numbers, distinguishing features, etc...
In the age of digital cameras, it is the work of minutes. and could save you lots of grief, if the shit ever hit the fan.
Ralphie
(Egg sucking Grandmother!)
And join the Facebook Group... It's free, and it might be useful in the future.
Regards Ralphie