TomB-R
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Posts posted by TomB-R
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I miscalculated what I'd paid for them, hence the price adjustment to £60.
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I have some brand new reed sets for sale which may be of interest to scratch builders/converters/restorers.
G/D sets of 30 reed plates (accordion type) Wheatstone/Lachenal layout.
Voci Armoniche "Tipo a mano avio diat"
If you're interested in C/G sets, let me know, I may be ordering some soon.
£60 per set including UK VAT @ 20% and postage.
VAT may not apply to sales outside the European Union.
Donation to c-net from all sales, of course.
Any queries, send me a message -
Other events, not relevant here, caused me to stop and think and led to the decision to concentrate on fiddle for my melody playing and to try to develop my extremely limited piano skills into something useful for accompaniment/backup.
So, sadly, decided to turn my back on the anglo.
Can't quite face selling my favourite rosewood 20key yet, but I have listed on Ebay..........
A mahogany steel-reeded 20 key Lachenal anglo in good playing order with some unusual aspects. It has the crucial C# for playing D tunes and also the nearby Bb. It also has the left hand G row G/A reeds reversed for the reversal that's normally on the accidentals row. (This alteration is a five minute job to revert to standard.)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170638959377&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
A 20 key brass reeded Lachenal anglo for restoration
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170639436240&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
John Williams "Learn to play Irish Concertina" instructional DVD
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170640077552&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
"The Seaman's Concertina" John Townley's instructional DVD, "in the nautical style"
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170640082495&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Bertram Levy's book "Anglo Concertina demystified"
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170640087213&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Book from Mel Bay the "All-American Concertina Album"
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170640089658&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Donation to concertina.net will follow sales, but please do let me know if you are a c.net member.
A 26 key Lachenal anglo will follow, but needs some work before I list it.
Many thanks to you all for your wisdom, knowledge, guidance and entertainment whilst I've been a regular visitor here.
I'll be calling by in future, but not so often as before.
Cheers
Tom
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They seem to take concertinas in their stride at Dublin airport security, but wanted to know whether a stringed instrument was a mandolin or a ukulele!
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With respect David, in the light of my experience as described above, I'd now disagree.
IF someone is willing and moderately able to do the work for themself, a well adjusted brass reeded Tutor Lachenal could give a lot of satisfactory playing for not much money.
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Just an update from my original post.
After careful consideration of the helpful information above I decided to work from the best sounding reeds on the concertina and see what they told me.
In brief, the most important characteristic seemed to be loudness on the tuning bellows. Get the reed loud and "happy" on the tuning bellows, willing to pump air! On a lot of reeds that meant setting them higher than I expected.
After adjusting all the reeds on that basis, I was very pleased to find that at last it was a decent playable instrument. There were a couple of reeds that I just couldn't get working as well as the others so replacements might be the way to go for those, but at present the owner is well pleased with it. A nicely playable brass reeded EC. Phew!
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Pleased to say that at Dublin airport whey seem quite used to such things!
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A fine survey on three cds at a very reasonable price! Lots of great playing in many genres.
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I'm surprised the better qualified haven't come in on this already, Malcolm.
I think Theo Gibb had a bit of a photo essay on this on his site a while back, so I think he does this stuff.
Shims glued in sawcuts to join cracks shown here
http://www.accordionmagic.com/albums/Anglo20/Anglo20.html
I fretsawed various pieces to replace missing sections of the fret on my Rosewood Lachenal. I had some offcuts left from a rosewood fingerboard so just a matter of bandsawing and fretsawing etc, (with precautions against potentially nasty dust.) Fortunately there were no areas missing from both ends so I was able to use the opposite end as a template.
And if it's worse than that, I think making a new end has been discussed on this forum.
The first two levels don't need a lot of tools or equipment. The bandsaw mentioned was a luxury and very nice work can be done with a hand fretsaw.
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I think I'd sound better if I played the tune slower than you, but not at that speed, as you probably would.
Ah and sorry about that sentence, the fact that I'm not native english speaker makes me write 'weak' english sometimes. I just meant that you would probably sound better at a slower speed on those tunes, as would I. ("as you probably would... if you played the tune slower") :-)
Not at all, it made good sense. (No probs at all with your earlier post, a bit defensive on my part.)
More generally I will just emphasise that I'm not advocating mindless speed or speed for the sake of it. Lots of Irish music is played too fast, but speed does remain an element. There are plenty of occasions where everyone at a session is having a great time, non-players included, but if one listened to a recording in the cold light of day one would think "Good grief! It sounds awful."
Phrasing, shape, proper ornamentation are all great and important things as plenty of people have pointed out, but let's beware turning a good dinner into nouvelle cuisine.
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I thought you might have included a link to your own playing there Azalin, but hey.
Fair enough, I'm sticking my head above the parapet here and trying not to get defensive. I'd just comment that the Comhaltas clip is running 112/224 and we were going 120/240 because that was what the dancers had asked for. Was it faster than we were comfortable with on a one-take recording for a specific purpose? Yes, but we were having fun.
"As you probably would" - no, that was the speed requested. The "Morpeth Rant" clip on the link is a better example of how I prefer to play. That's running a shade below the speed of the Comhaltas clip. (No. it's not meant to be Irish in style.)
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Hi David, how are you?
I seem to have "rattled your cage" (again.) It wasn't intentional.
Your post goes well beyond anything I said, ("putting words in my mouth" - sound familiar?)
You care about the music, so I won't just say "**** off" but will reply positively.
I liked and agreed with your original post, and individually appreciated, and generally agreed with the subsequent comments, but I felt that collectively there was a potentially false concensus building that the music "should" be played slowly, and possibly that this is the only "correct" way to play it. I felt a balancing comment was needed.
Good - we can agree that it can be fun to play fast.
Now you've raised the point, I can see that there is a way in which it could be argued that speed is not "fundamental" so I'll re-phrase and say that a fast pace is one significant aspect of the music, and that to deny that would be to significantly change its character.
The fiddle point was of no significance other than that I have the experience of enjoying brisk playing on fiddle, but not concertina.
I'm neither purist, specialist nor hotshot, my playing is mainly guided by social, functional and community aspects of the people I play with, and the dancers I play for.
Fiddle clips at
http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/music.asp?id=1097
Two reels at a BPM requested by Irish dancers, and a couple of other tunes, not Irish.
Tom
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He wasn't a concertina player either, but here's what Giraldus Cambrensis wrote about Irish music in 1185, speed is nothing new....
"I find among these people commendable diligence only on musical instruments, on which they are incomparably more skilled than any nation I have seen. Their style is not, as on the British instruments to which we are accustomed, deliberate and solem but quick and lively; nevertheless the sound is smooth and pleasant.
It is remarkable that, with such rapid fingerwork, the musical rhythm is maintained and that, by unfailingly disciplined art, the integrity of the tune is fully preserved throughout the ornate rhythms and the profusely intricate polyphony—and with such smooth rapidity, such 'unequal equality', such 'discordant concord'. Whether the strings strike together a fourth or a fifth, [the players] nevertheless always start from B flat and return to the same, so that everything is rounded off in a pleasant general sonority. They introduce and leave rhythmic motifs so subtly, they play the tinkling sounds on the thinner strings above the sustained sound of the thicker string so freely, they take such secret delight and caress [the strings] so sensuously, that the greatest part of their art seems to lie in veiling it, as if 'That which is concealed is bettered—art revealed is art shamed'."
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All well and good, fair comments all, but moderation in all things, including moderation!
This is a fast music, a part of its joy and character is in speed.
One of the wonderful things about many Irish tunes is that they work well over such a range of speeds.
Well chosen tempo, lovely phrasing and articulation is a great thing, but there's also joy in rattling along at a fine pace.
There is Too Fast, but let's not deny one of the fundamentals of this music.
Let's also be completely honest with ourselves, and not say "I prefer" to play steadily when one doesn't actually have the choice.
(It's entirely valid to say "I prefer to concentrate on playing the tunes at a steady pace etc etc," but one can't "prefer" not to play a tune at a tempo at which one can't play it!)
(I'm speaking as a fiddle player here. I'll provide a link to my own playing if it matters to anyone.)
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Very interesting, thank you.
Tom
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I'm not sure you're going to find anything more than what you've already mentioned, but how much more would you want?
If you want more guidance first time round would a Wakker Clover kit meet the need?
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Thanks Greg, very much appreciated.
Tom
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Many thanks for helpful replies. That gives me a good restart Greg, and it's also helpful to know that it may not be me!
Yes, it was clear from the start that brass reeds needed a light hand and extra care.
Ref light valves I'm wondering whether it would be a bad thing to try out ventile "accordion" valves on a couple of reeds instead of leather, or are they unlikely to seal well on wood rather than a metal reed plate.
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I did a refurbishment of a student-type Lachenal English for a friend - clean up, pads, valves, tuning etc. It's four-fold bellows, brass reeds, coloured buttons.
This is the first time I've worked on brass reeds and compared with steel I found the results disappointing, they're slow to speak and take quite a lot of bellows pressure.
The concertina plays, but it's hardly a pleasure. (It doesn't help that that the owner's other one is an Aeola.)
Slowness in speaking I can believe is due to my not setting the reeds right, though I seem to have achieved a remarkable consistency of slow response across the instrument!
(And have been very happy with my results on steel reeds.)
The general feeling of needing high bellows pressure, (as if the bellows were stiff,) seems less likely to be something I can do anything about. As you'd expect, the 100 yr old bellows in themselves are as flexible as can be. Airtightness is good.
I'll be grateful for comments/suggestions on how to improve things (or whether this is possible) .......
[Edited for clarity, I hope.]
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I used black vinyl "leatherette" to cover my case, glued on with contact adhesive, edges/corners protected by aluminium right-angle, brushed with a wire cup brush in a Dremel.
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As it happens there's an active thread there at present about who also plays concertina. Nice friendly open-minded discussion, as usual on mel.net
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5616.0/topicseen.html
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I don't think I've come across anything short of things like the Sherwood at about £1000.
Conversion could be a possibility. Probably easier at the cheaper end where the reeds are on accordion-like reed blocks. Instruments with flat mounted reeds are less easy to come by anyway, and a C/G might not have space for longer G/D reed plates.
G/D reed sets can be obtained.....
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You didn't say which system, so English.....
Twelve sided bellows, al la Edeophone, that transition to completely round ends.
Radial reed cells are all the same size.
Half an octave, at the top and bottom of the range, of "redundant" reed cells at nil transposition.
Action laid out to give chromatic semitone progression of reed cells throughout the range.
...and getting to the important bit.....
....connection from action assembly to bellows and reed pan is solely through a central bolt.
Sprung click stops at each alignment of action holes and reed cells.
To transpose up a semitone twist the bellows/reed pans, relative to the action, one way to the next click stop, vice versa to go down. More clicks for more than one semitone.
Brilliant idea, but I see a few problems.- "Radial reed cells are all the same size." - But radically different chamber sizes are needed for the reeds at the top and bottom of the range. In fact, your design only needs that the chambers be the same width; they could be "stopped" at different lengths and even have different depths, but I wonder if any adjustments in those parameters, no matter how radical, would result in all reeds speaking reasonably under the constraint of uniform width. (Hmm. I've just thought of what I think may be a possible solution, but I won't describe it, yet.)
- "Action laid out to give chromatic semitone progression of reed cells throughout the range." - Judging from the way the levers are laid out in existing instruments, where musically adjacent notes are often not in physically adjacent chambers and many levers are bent in interesting curves, I suspect that the layout using a traditional action (rigid levers on pivots) may have to be extremely intricate, at best.
- "You didn't say which system, so English....." - On the English the notes that are found on either end are not all a half step apart, and in fact are not even evenly spaced. In order for your system to work you would need to have a complete chromatic set of reeds on each end, nearly doubling the number of reeds, with only about half of them usable -- i.e., under pad holes -- at any given time. If you're going to try it, I think it would be much simpler and more economical to start with a duet layout.
Very significant point re Duet rather than English, Jim.
"Fair cop gov, you got me dead to rights."
New Tipo a Mano reed sets for sale
in Buy & Sell
Posted
Busy with other things I'd completely forgotten about these, but still have a couple of sets for sale.
Price updated to as of now (reduction!)
As well as scratch builders they might be of interest to anyone wanting to convert to G/D.
Cheers,
Tom