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Posts posted by Kautilya

  1. Read my fingering! (with apologies to Bush snr) :rolleyes:

    the word lute MAY [i said MAY]have come to us from Sanskrit via Farsi/Arabic... ;) I ain't committing to anything here.....


    The great thing of course it that no one seems able to say definitively where Sanskrit came from anyway, but my money is on the ancient Welsh with Celtic overtones due to the spread of Celtic tunes by the Basque sailors who had weekend breaks away in Mohenjodaro between World Cups in Germany.


    It is quite clear from Jones (Jones the Indian not Jones the Singer). The Scots reference here is coz they are.... wait and I quote Wikiunknownanswers: All Scots are Celts but not all Celts are Scots



  2. With regard to the Stephanelli, based on my experience of those and the Rochelle, (some time apart so not a direct comparison) the differences weren't that great, the main one being that in the Rochelle, the button spacing is "correct" whereas in the Stephanelli it is too wide. This could be less important for Anglo than with, say, English though.

    I'd say the Stephanelli would be fine for starting to learn the layout etc.


    As to trade-in etc, the Stephanelli is around at c£100. How much of a risk can that be! Ebay would surely get you a good chunk of that back if necesary.



    As to Anglo or English, a couple of points.

    - What else does your friend play? The often quoted advice is that sheet music readers do well with English. I think this is generally true. If she plays keyboards of any sort I'd suggest that points towards English. Winds and strings there's no telling. If she plays, or has got on well with harmonica, that could point towards Anglo.


    - If nothing is pulling her too strongly either way, a big point in favour of English is that nice vintage Englishes are cheaper than Anglos! Highly respected UK concertina dealer Chris Algar's site gives price ranges at



    [Edit] Whopping Great Big generalisation coming up!!! :unsure: :blink: :P :D

    Classical background - English

    Folkie background - Anglo

    (Runs for cover!)

    WAIT! BORROW and try out


    Make the surprise wow factor a weekend at one of the gatherings of tina players.


    e.g. http://www.wccp.co.uk/

    WCCP has a few spare boxes you can try. They will go out of their way to help a beginner, and easier for one with some musical knowledge. Ring em up and talk to em. They are not SO far from you.


    Sanskrit apart (ancient by definition...) no one wants to see you wearing musical pyjamas (Persian roughly deriving from "an arm and a leg...") back to front -- coz you did not know what they were for to start with and paid too much and could not take em back).


    As a still learning concertina beginner with a little musical knowledge (school orchestra violin at six and polyphony) I back those who say you MUST let your friend have a go first.... honest!


    As pointed out, Anglos are push for one note and pull for another (like harmonica). If your friend has trouble patting head and polishing chest at same tame then that's one problem to be tackled. 20 Anglo buttons (21 with air release button) won't give enough sharp and flat notes (accidentals and all that) for fancy note slithering mountain toons from Qafasan.


    The English has loads more buttons and plays the same note on a button whether you pushin' or pullin' -- but the buttons are not laid out in a straight line like a piano keyboard.


    Try try try and then only let THEM buy (and you cough up the lute!) (Now: -- the word lute may have come to us from Sanskrit, via Farsi/Arabic, but that's a whole new thread and someone may hijack this gift debate by starting it!)

  3. Make sure you always boil your icicle chain


    Man seen fleeing out of ward in hospital gown.

    Wot's your problem?

    It's that nurse after me again - she always gets everything back to front!


    Matron just told her to prick my boil! (maybe we are getting nearer to Malopropitis...)


    Mother telling neighbour how lucky she was that her son had just graduated instead of dying at birth. "He was so ill they had to put him in an incinerator to survive."


    As Dirge harmoniously ringtoned, Spooner was at New College Oxford for 60 years which is presumably why he was rebound among bookish students as an ancient history lecherer.


    Give a man a hot meal and he will feel warm and happy for a day.

    Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.



  4. Ol Ol Widor (the grandfather) was Hungarian hence the funny vv - probably from Székesfehérvár which I know well (!)....The Soviet tanks rolled out of there to crush the Prague Spring in 1968.


    and there is a quiet unpleasing very fast version of the toccata just after that Caen church one on a very fast organ and the organist explains he plays it like that coz he "got da machine to do it" and smaller churches allower faster bashing coz the reverb is less.


    That said this 128 whopper takes us back to my single note fantasy.


    It is not as impressive as the bottom note at Durham Cathedral which is also a banned note but I have stood next to the pipe and do you shake!


    I dont think this (the only one I can find) hits the bottom:


    and course the swell on the organ is just like a big squeeze on the tina :P

  5. It just decided to load instantaneously - it had been struggling for more than an hour going nowhere till I shut it down and then after reading yr note I hit the url again and bingo! Interesting but it brings me back to sthing very interesting which u just said.


    I think your man over machine remark may be at the core of this whole discussion, tho praps not the way you meant it just now probably!


    For me it is what feeling and hence impact on the listener which the player can get from his instrument that determines the result, rather than what some say are the limits of the instrument itself. U know, a bad workmen always blames his tools.


    It's not that the violin cant do what the tina does or vice versa - it's what each one can do with (for want of a phrase) the same toon (at the most basic level). How far they work together also seems to be a bugbear in this discussion. I turned up early for a bash last June and the background quartet was on the steps of the castle with trombone, violin, guitar and trumpet. As no one else had arrived and the drinks waiters were just standing there, I suggested we tried jazzing up Ode to Joy with me on chromatic harmonica - it went amazingly well, and fast and slow ....it sounded 'just right'! All kinds of things got played later(they each played several instruments)along with a lot of singing from the castle ramparts till 0200....


    At Witney melodeon Tim van Eyken played a long Swedish piece and sang a couple of verses of the lyrics early on (instead of all of them). The depth of meaning he produced in a very quiet way was quite stunning... it was the kind of performance which was "memorable" for what he got "out of the box" -- deep emotion (boy and girl folk song of course......). I dont think they recorded it.


    Where that takes us I dont know. Probably just playing arouond with one long note on whatever the instrument and enjoying how much you can get out of the note every which way ...! :D


    this thread is heading for a record no. of posts so I cant remember accurately if somone mentioned about an organ sounding 'wooden'. wot abaht this old piece which for me is one of the best smooth swinger toons from deep bass right up. Has a great effect particularly when u have a long line of people processing in step... they start to sway with the waves from the organ.


    I wonder whether a 48 or 56 button job could not also do the business with this = with some powerful elec amplification of course. Or adding person with a bass tina to do the organ pedals?


    wotever, it's great to listen to



    PS I desperately want to hear but cant get Njurkowski's Vivaldi to load -- http://www.rowlhouse.co.uk/cello/VivaldiAm.mp3

  7. Paul - under advanced search I cant spot ways of avoiding multiple results.


    Searching either at main page search box or in advanced phrase such as


    easy tunes for anglo beginners


    it produces the latest (and all the previous) mentions of anglo (and the rest)


    Is there / was there find dog AND cat function for example? Keywords...





  8. I wouldn't call it inferior either.


    But nobody so far called it "inferior". Saying that two door car has two doors doesn't make it "inferior". But it is valuable observation as there are people who need four doors.



    A challenge for Geoff / Theo/ Dave/ Chris/ Mike & all the machine masters to move positively beyond the Violin/Tina/'odeon/Organ debate?

    (as a free project of course - don't want to know the price!)

    PS you heard that new word MELLIFLUODEON here first!


    go see:

    Composer reinvents the piano‎ - 13 hours ago

    The fluid piano has generated much interest since it was first mentioned in the Guardian six years ago – when it was Smith with little more than a one-key ...


    :P :blink: :ph34r:

  9. Once again thanks everyone for that, really good stuff. I was going to pm a coupe of likely suspects/unfortunates but thought I'd make a topic out of it and I'm really glad I did; I've learnt a lot quite apart from having the basic question magnificently answered.


    (Sorry to be so smug about the view; I had to move half way round the world to afford it, if that helps.)

    Dirge - BORROW AN H2 OR H4

    There must be some local school/college/music group using one - just do a local web search - they would be pleased for you to go along with a (camera) SD (512MB) card, plug in, play and then take card home and listen on your PC and play with Audacity...


    I can ask about through another techie forumn with NZ members if it is not too late.... B)

  10. Maybe be the auctioneers are loosing it a bit? Perhaps it should be 'Cenile and Co'? ;)

    Letting it run free?

    Then if I'm in the neighbourhood, I might be able to catch it for myself? :unsure: ;)

    OK - so today is 19th and auction was 17th - did anyone make it there in a boat or just bid from their sunlounger on the QE2?

  11. Go for the Zoom H2 or H4 (I always mix up but I think the 2 has four mics and the 4 has 2) but buy the cheaper one - I see new they are from 153 to around 160 quid. U can always sell on later with little loss and they dont seem to go wrong.


    Dead easy to use out of the box -- and u can stick it in your pocket and use cheap SD camera cards to download after the pub, or attach it to your PC and play in your bedroom. I like Audacity for playing back and slowiung down and repeating phrases to learn or see what was played wrong, but seems it is not so good for editing, but it is free!


    If H2 is good enough for:

    Joglaresa to record their gigs by sticking it on the floor www.joglaresa.com

    and good enough for hatchetjob for Web interviews with the hi=tech gliterati

    [On url below the interviewer is on H2, the interviewee is coming direct into the computer through Skype and the hum is a monster power four gig ram quad duo bazongo Intel turbo specially built PC even tho wrapped in a blanket... that shows the sensitivity of the H2 which can also be used to aim in various directions




    ... then it is good enough for you too.


    Hatchetjob says H2 ' should be absolutely fine for him'

    Hatchetjob uses Mixcraft to edit as hates 'complicated' Audacity but it costs about 40 quid.


    Jim/Paul ® and (S)- I got that double text syndrome after posting yesterday - I think it was after an edit, but no mattter what I did it would not let me re-edit out the doubled up text. I cant remember whether I just copied my note and deleted the whole post and then started afresh....


    Don't know if this helps or just confuses :blink:

  13. 170403647973


    tried to upload under thread elsewhere but it was refused....


    Okay, I think I've fixed the upload problem. Give it a try...



    Tks Paul! Will try later. My mail re the specific Dublin upload attempt was also a hint! hint! knock! knock! " check this out" for Paul (Read) and t'others who had earlier been debating Gaelic matters and delays (geddit?) B) B) Was trying to be indirectly discreet.....

  14. [quote name='Kautilya' date='09 November 2009 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1257764113'


    Paul, perhaps it's a bug. Just tried uploading same file on another forum and it went up fine. It was the png screen grab file.

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