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Andy Holder

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Everything posted by Andy Holder

  1. I'm selling my Jeffries (as in the Buy and Sell posting). As a matter of curiosity do these accidentals make sense for a Bb/F instrument? I don't play much so am not able to judge the finer points. I can get some lovely chords out of the left hand but don't really know what they are. The yellow ones are the extras that have been added to a 38 button to make it a 43. Why? Would those extras have been used for a particular style of music? I can get some quite jazzy sounding chords. Also, the drone doesn't seem logical to me. Thanks Andrew.
  2. Hi Mark, I agree, it is an odd number for a serial number. It would appear to be an early one, before Praed Street. It has other pencil markings, on the RH reedpan, near the 23124 it has a 6 and a 46. In the LH reedpan it has what looks like 6 and 46 but partially obscured by a chamber wall, glued in afterwards. In the RH bellows frame it has what appears to be Q7 and the name Brown, In the LH bellows frame it has an L (like a curly £ without the crossbars) and 7 and again Brown. Perhaps the serial number is either 6 or 46? Any other ideas anyone? Andy and all, Just a few further thoughts. Bellows frames. As it is quite common to see a stylised L for the Left side, could the Q in the bellows frame be a stylised R for the Right side. 6? this number in Jeffries usually indicates a 'Batch' number and may be found on the bellows frames and endboxes. A batch number identifies these basic major shapes that are assembled using the same clamps and ensures that these match up in size and shape. Batch numbers refer to parts of the same size and shape made at the same time and do not necessarily indicate a number of instruments of the same type /number of buttons made at the same time e.g. Jeffries/Crabb 6 inch AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's. Crabb & others 6.25 AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's or 40 – 48 button English etc. Reed pans. 7? Although it would be expected to see this as the same (batch) number as marked on the bellows frame i.e. 6 in this case, it is possible that a mistake in numbering was made during manufacture or the pan had been swapped from another instrument at some time. 46? As discussed in Marks post , we are aware that some Jeffries (and Crabb) Anglo reed pans of the period were routinely marked out for more reeds than were actually needed or fitted in a finished instrument. It is therefore possible the reed pans may have been marked out for a 46 (45 + W) and annotated accordingly. 23124? Certainly not a serial/ID number. Could be a repair number or pawn brokers number but the latter is usually found scratched on the exterior As we know that the instrument has been converted from a 38 Button, this could be the date of conversion, 23 Jan 1924. (The 4 in 23124 does appear to be slightly different to that in 46.) C Jeffries Anglos that do contain a four digit ID number starting with 8 (8xxx), were made in the Crabb workshop. Brown? Could be an owner at sometime or the person instigating/carrying out the changes. Good luck with the sale Andy Geoffrey Geoffrey, thank you for that marvellous reply. It hadn't occurred to me that the 46 might be a reed pan designation. It certainly has the right number of potential chambers. That would explain why the chamber wall has been glued over one of the numbers, once it has been selected the number is no longer important. The alternative date is also very canny, as you say, the two 4s are certainly in a different hand. I believe that the woodwork is not up to Crabb standards so it's almost certainly a true Jeffries. The reeds are interesting. It is the first Jeffries I've tuned and the steel is noticeably much harder than the Wheatstones or Lachenals I've done to date. It takes much more filing to change the pitch by an equivalent amount. Is this the key to the "Jeffries sound"? As a footnote Geoffrey, I hope you are writing, or at least planning to write, a book. Your knowledge is encyclopaedic! As and when, in the distant future, you shuffle off this mortal coil, I hope the knowledge remains for posterity! The snippets that are available about the past makers are absolutely fascinating. Thanks again. Andrew
  3. I would agree if it were a Wheatstone or Lachenal but it sounds a little out of character to be so organised in the manufacturing. Perhaps Mr Brown was a particularly fastidious employee.
  4. That's a nice idea Geoff. What a great Christmas present for someone! Although I don't believe CJ was in the habit of selling to the "nobs"!
  5. Hi Mark, I agree, it is an odd number for a serial number. It would appear to be an early one, before Praed Street. It has other pencil markings, on the RH reedpan, near the 23124 it has a 6 and a 46. In the LH reedpan it has what looks like 6 and 46 but partially obscured by a chamber wall, glued in afterwards. In the RH bellows frame it has what appears to be Q7 and the name Brown, In the LH bellows frame it has an L (like a curly £ without the crossbars) and 7 and again Brown. Perhaps the serial number is either 6 or 46? Any other ideas anyone?
  6. Finally, I've managed to get my Jeffries into selling condition. I put it up on ebay last night, here. I would be very happy to negotiate a sale on Cnet as I'd much rather see the donation go to Cnet than eBay. As I've said, very happy for anyone to come and play it. Couldn't imagine buying a car without driving it! Thanks to lots of Cnetters for helping with the finer points of the restoration. In the end, rather than selling an instrument that sounded awful, I've tuned to the nearest keys, which meant droppping everything by 30-50 cents. I still have some of the odd notes to finish. Hoping it will be a nice addition to someone who maybe already has a C/G. I can play this a little better than the English but still not good enough for a Youtube performance! Andrew.
  7. Thanks Geoff, for a most fascinating discussion. I think I understood most of it What started off as a simple question has very complicated considerations! Andrew
  8. This dates back to the days before Equal Temperament became the norm in the concertina world, when G#/Ab and D#/Eb were different notes by about 20 cents (there are 100 cents in an interval). Meantone Temperament was used for English concertinas at least through the 1860's, maybe longer? I was surprised to find out my Bastari Anglo from the 1970's is in Pythagorean Temperament. Cajun accordions use a completely different temnperament system as well. So, to answer your question, if it's an English concertina in Equal Temperament then the G#/Ab and D#/Eb will be exactly the same and you can call them whatever you like depending on the proximity to the non-sharped or flatted note, or depending on the key signature of the music you are playing. Since they are now the same, you will sometimes see the extra one omitted on cheaper EC's with fewer buttons. Gary Thank you Gary. That was a very clear and logical explanation. I generally tune to equal temperament so it doesn't really matter but it was more a curiosity as to why some reeds were stamped G# and some stamped Ab. All is now clear, thanks. Andrew
  9. Speaking as a non musician, (I don't play, only mend!) When do you call a note G# and when do you call it Ab? I always imagined that you use either one or the other but stick to it. However, both are used in the same instrument, why? Thanks Andrew
  10. Paul I just wrote a reply tending towards Chris's suggestion but then completely did a U turn (sorry Chris). The crack has been caused by shrinkage (wood only shrinks across the grain, not along it). I've measured your photo on my screen and it appears that across the flats it is exactly the same each direction. That's very important as the action hasn't shrunk so if you were to close up the crack it wouldn't be right. In my humble opinion you should have as much wood as possible and minimum glue or filler. Find a bit of Sycamore or Maple and sand it to a very slight taper until it will wedge in the crack. Glue all faces and push it in firmly. After it's set, take off the excess with a very sharp chisel, then sand flat. Make some oversize pads and you're sorted. Andrew
  11. I've just put a really nice Lachenal up on eBay. Here it is. It came to me in superb condition. The varnish is a bit iffy, but the bits that matter, the reeds, the action, the bellows, are really excellent. I would be very happy to sell to someone on Cnet, that would have to be before any bids come in, and would obviously donate a good amount to the Cnet funds. Please feel free to come and have a play if you're in the South West of England. Unfortunately I don't play the English Concertina, (I can't imagine why anyone would, it has no logic whatsoever!) so I can't do a nice YouTube vid, but I'm happy to shoot me doing a very wobbly three octaves! Andrew
  12. My cutting out was good, but not that good!
  13. They say "what goes around, comes around". I'm now 60 and have spent the afternoon "cutting out". Bellows papers, to be precise, but the last time I had such a concentrated effort was when I was 6 and in primary school! I was particularly good at it then, but I've got my own scissors now! I might spend tomorrow "gluing and colouring in" (being careful not to go over the edges). Andrew
  14. Hi all. Maybe this is a cheeky ask but I'm nearly finished restoring my Bb/F Jeffries and I wondered if there is anyone in the South West of England who would be good enough to give it a good thrashing before I sell it! You see, I can only pick out a tune slowly but I can't give it a really good testing and I don't want to sell it unless I know it is a good player. I've done a complete bellows re-bind so it is stiff, I've replaced all the pads, valves, bushes etc. I just don't know enough about the feel to be able to tell whether it is OK for a serious player. I will bring it to wherever and supply encouragement and plenty of beer. I'm near Shaftesbury, so somewhere in Wiltshire, Somerset, Dorset, Hampshire, might suit. It'll probably be ready in a couple of weeks. Thanks, Andrew.
  15. Thanks Theo. I still don't know the temperament as many of the reeds are not sounding yet. I'm having a fairly big cleaning job, there's a bit of rust about! One of the reeds I've just cleaned is sounding a beautiful clear Bb but is marked D# so I don't know what's going on until they are all clean.
  16. That's an interesting one. I hadn't thought of that option. Although that does mean that someone will have to spend another 200-300 on top of the sale price.
  17. Hello all. Following on from a previous posting, I need to sell my Jeffries, which is well on the way to being a lovely instrument. I can't afford to keep it to play, I'm not that good anyway! Most of the refurb is done but the tuning is a dilemma. The reed frames are stamped as if it is a C/G but it is much closer in tune to being a Bb/F. The question is, would C/G be a much more saleable instrument than Bb/F? Perhaps Bb/F is useful to someone expanding their collection? I have to be hard nosed about this because it's been burning a hole in my credit card for some time and I need to recoup as much as I can! Thanks Andrew
  18. Yep me too. I've played it lots of times.
  19. Where is it? is it in the U.S. or Ireland? Why 228 dollars to ship? Too many unknowns to be comfortable!
  20. Since the last message I've just managed to get enough notes out of the right hand side to ascertain that it is a Bb/F and it's about 40 cents sharp. All of the stamped letters on the frames are wrong! Andrew
  21. Andy, I can't remember the keys your concertina is in, but perhaps it is not a C/G, maybe it is a Bf/F in old pitch and as such is close to being in tune..? Jeffries frame stampings are often misleading, and I wouldn't assume it is a C/G just because the frame stampings say so. That's interesting Chris. I don't know yet what keys it is because I've only just started to get some notes out of it. I assumed that they would tune to the stamped note but if you reckon that they might be wrong then it's quite possible that its a Bb/F. Does that make it more valuable or less? Thanks.
  22. I'm just starting to tune my Jeffries Anglo and the first few reeds I've measured are very flat, about one and a half semitones flat, in fact A=405. I was under the impression that most "old" tunings were slightly sharp, i.e. Philharmonic =452, Salvation Army = 456. All the ECs I've done have been. The instrument appears to be in tune with itself and these measurements are for the note stamped on the reed frame. Can anyone shed light on this please, I'm reluctant to take that much metal off. Thanks. Andrew
  23. If you're about to cut the thickness of felt under the keys be warned. I had the std 2 washers under each key and lowered the buttons by losing one of them and resetting the action. I was warned that it would make my fingers ache and it did. I put the second washers back and reset the action again; my fingers stopped aching! That is interesting, you wouldn't think it would make that much difference but it obviously does. Thanks for that pointer.
  24. That's excellent. I've just noticed it and reported it, only to find that you lot are already all over it like a rash! Well done. Nothing quite like the bush telegraph! Andrew
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