Andy Holder
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Posts posted by Andy Holder
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Perfect Henrik, where do you find these clips?
What do you imagine that white glue is that she's using on the bellows?
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Light bulb moment! Watching the video made me realise why the big air hole in the English reed pan is off centre! My goodness that man was brilliant!
Andy
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Wowee! What a fantastic response. And thank you for the video link. I've always been fascinated by specialist machines and during the 70's and 80's made a few myself. I made an 8' x 4' open frame XY CNC router, controlled by a BBC Micro, which drilled a criss cross pattern of 2,000 holes in plastic sheets. They then had nylon loops stitched into them and became a portable dry ski slope! The customer didn't sell many, partly due to the fact that the nylon would take fingers off if you fell on it!
I also made an automatic machine that fed squares of thin ply from a hopper onto a turntable and then cut them into circles and drilled lots of holes round the edge - Cane basket bases, we made 40,000 of them.
Suffice to say that I feel a semi-automatic reed pan machine coming on. Very exciting! Any orders? Cheaper if you buy 100!
Andy
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I'm just in the middle of de-tuning an English Lachenal and each time I push a reed frame back into its housing, I marvel at the precision of the dovetail slot. Does anyone know how they originally cut those slots? I'm guessing they didn't have high speed routers like we do today and yet they can't have been chiselled, much too time consuming. Perhaps they were rotary cutters, geared off a central shaft running through the factory? Are there any pictures of the factory working?
Andy.
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Theo is right about PVA. I use it for most jobs but have found that using the liquid hide glue for some bellows work is advantageous.
The liquid hide glue seems to really make the leather more pliable and thus easier to achieve a neat job for the exposed leather parts. It is somewhat like working with liquid honey though, so I keep a bowl of water and paper towels handy. When making a bellows from scratch I use PVA for the bottom joint as it is less trouble and stronger. Note that my method for making bellows owes a lot to the instructions of Bob Tedrow (Homewood), modified to suit my equipment, and modified in materials to suit English 'tinas. Bob's instructions call for PVA in the bottom joint and hide glue for gussets etc. My thanks to Bob for his willingness to share expertise.
Note: liquid hide glue can be a skin irritant (doesn't bother mine) so the use of disposable vinyl glove is recommended.
The only other adhesive I use is Elmer's School Glue, for bellows papers and Chamois gasket work, as recommended in Dave's book.
I, too, am using Bob's fantastic instructions. However, some of my measurements are in those really small bits, millimetres! I'm going to try the Titebond Liquid Hide Glue as I've always found the original titebond to be excellent.
I have just bought a lovely hide of pneumatic leather 0.6mm and I don't want to waste a bit of it. I'm trying to sort out a reasonably cheap way of skiving it without the expense of Bob's wonderful machine. Trouble is, I haven't yet got the skill for manual skiving.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
I'm still using a 20th century solid paste, purchased over 30 years ago, called Shoemakers Paste, made by F W Ball. I only use it for bellows patches, so I stil have 2/3 of the tub left. I don't know what is in it, and they don't make it anymore. But its still as good as the day I got it.
Are vegetarian stinks OK? If so, here is a recipe for a homemade version:
Shoemakers Paste is made by taking barley-meal and, with warm water, mixing into a thick paste. Hot water is added to bring it to the required consistency. It should then be placed in a warm place to ferment, which may be ascertained by the sour smell. This is a tenacious, smooth paste, free from lumps, and is a splendid adherent.
Wow Wes, that is dedicated. I might have a go at that. Is that Ball, as in Farrow and Ball?
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Why not pva? There are plenty of good woodworking adhesives that are pva. The Titebond aliphatics are good too. All the synthetics though are more or less permanent. The big advantage of hide glue is that it can be undone with moisture and warmth.
What about the other animal products you are likely to use: leather and wool?
Hi Theo. It's not an over zealous thing with me, but I do my gluing in the dining room, with the glue pot on the Rayburn and Julia doesn't like me boiling up dead animals! I do wear leather shoes and occasionally eat a delicious lamb casserole. I have an alcohol problem so can't use anything with alcohol in the title (PVA). I'm going to look at fish glue though!
Incidentally, joking aside, I've just glued some linen round the outside edges of a bellows with pearl glue and 30% of it didn't stick. Too cool? not enough glue? too much glue?
Andy.
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Helle all.
Does Cascamite, which is an extremely brittle glue, like hide glue, behave in the same way? What about modified polymers? Any ideas? I'm starting to see the faces of the terrified animals as they file into the abbatoir!
Thanks
Andy.
Lee Valley Tools (Canadian, but with international online catalogue sales) stocks "Veritas" fish glue. Not exactly vegetarian, but it is an excellent, reversible substitute for hide glue, and is ready to use from the bottle. No smell. I use it for fine furniture restoration work.
Excellent Bill, I'll check that out. I'm also a keen sailor so anything fishy is good!
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However, it has to be said, you don't play the piano with alternate hands up the scale - touché!
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If I was told to sit down with a paper and pencil and design an instrument which is the least intuitive, most awkward and difficult to understand layout, then an English Concertina is what I'd come up with!
Many of those being familiar with an "Ebony and Ivory" keybord (or some sheet music) might feel and judge much different: you get black and white keys, lines and spaces, thirds and fiths...
I know, I was going to say that! But could you possibly imagine playing the piano and harmonica at the same time? Yikes!
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Thanks Jim. an interesting thread, quite tongue in cheek, though.
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You might try "Liquid Hide Wood Glue". I am quite happy with the results I get using this product from Titebond.
It's still hide glue, but without the smell, heating pot etc. I use it primarily on bellows, and seems to be standing up very well.
Thanks for that. I was wondering about the original Titebond, which I use all the time for furniture.
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Hi Nisse.
If you instinctively feel good with the Harmonica, you should be able to play an Anglo almost straight out of the box, it's practically the same instrument
However, I found the English, which I bought to try an accompany my fiddle playing partner, is a complete nightmare from hell! If I was told to sit down with a paper and pencil and design an instrument which is the least intuitive, most awkward and difficult to understand layout, then an English Concertina is what I'd come up with!
That's only my opinion though
Andy.
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Hello all. I have recently tried to go for 2 Jeffries anglos locally. The first was in Lawrences Auctioneers in Crewkerne, Somerset. Guide price £500-£700. I know that was a silly estimate but the bidding started at £2,100 and, within 15 seconds sold for £3,400. With the commission and VAT that's £4,746.
Last week there was another in Charterhouse in Sherborne that sold for £4,200. With commission that's nearly 6 grand! As far as I could see from the picture, they both needed work.
Who's buying them at these prices? I've given up any idea of ever getting a Jeffries now, short of finding one in a charity shop for £100!
I guess we have the power of the internet to thank, which means everything finds its own level.
Any thoughts?
The 'Western Gazette' of 24 November suggests that the Laurences Auctioneers 'Jeffries' bidding reached £4,060 ....'from collectors'. Hope the purchaser was more than a mere collector !
Was that an intentional pun Rod? I live in Mere, Wiltshire, so I suppose I'm a "mere collector". Incidentally, we often finish a meal with a Mere Trifle!
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Hi there. Why use the old gussets. You can get pneumatic leather quite cheaply. Wouldn't it save you lots of work and make a better job to use the old one as a pattern and cut new ones?
Andy
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Hi Nisse. I have been restoring instruments for a little while now. I have by no means got as much experience with reeds as Chris but I have been a woodworker and cabinet maker for 25 years. I would be happy to talk about a refurb of an eBay box. The problem, as with any historic item is how much to conserve and how much to restore. Do you preserve the patina or do you make it look like new? Only the owner can decide.
Andy.
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I have found that when you're cutting thin strips of leather, especially thin and soft stuff, it's a whole lot easier to use a rotary cutter than a craft knife. Also much easier to get straight lines than scissors.
Andy
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Helle all.
I'm just embarking on making my first instrument, a 3 row anglo. I've nearly finished the bellows (I figured I'd start with one of the hard bits first). I have been using hide glue, with all its accompanying smells and difficulties. I've now started thinking, my wife's vegetarian, my daughter's vegetarian, I'm hovering on the brink of being vegetarian, my workshop's in the house and this stuff stinks! Does anyone know of any serious, sophisticated 21st century adhesives that would do the job (I don't mean PVA!)
Are Aliphatics too rigid? Does Cascamite, which is an extremely brittle glue, like hide glue, behave in the same way? What about modified polymers? Any ideas? I'm starting to see the faces of the terrified animals as they file into the abbatoir!
Thanks
Andy.
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Andy
You may need to check your calculations. Buyer's premium at Charterhouse is 19.5% and VAT of 20% is only charged on the buyer's premium so the total bill to the auction house was only £5183 (assuming you could have collected yourself and didn't need their packing service - there seem to be 2 levels of buyer's premium quoted in their terms but 19.5% seems to be the highest) - so that's a litle shy of £6,000, even though this instrument does appear to have sold at a relatively high level.
Charterhouse only had one photograph and didn't know the pitch of the instrument or have any other good description of the quality. Nevertheless the picture seemed to indicate that the instrument was in good external order. Let's assume that the winner had seen the instrument, had a chance to play it had been able to look at the reeds and reckoned this was an instrument at the upper end of quality needing no repair work and no tuning and was in the preferred keys of C/G. Such an instrument would be on sale through a recognised dealer at £6,000 and maybe even well above (and I think we can assume that the recognised dealers would have heard of the auction and were bidding), so the auction price still represents a profit of £800 - or at least 13% to the dealer and if a private person bought it, then he saved 13% on the "retail" price. Even in today's econmomic situation, £6,000 to £7,000 for a top quality Jeffries is not unreasonable. Even recognising the availability of quality instruments made by others, a Jeffries sound and history still carries a cachet that many will prize and pay for.
Of course, if the instrument required repair and tuning and was in a less preferred key, then the dealer might be taking a bath or be hopeful of selling it for more than £6,000.
The instrument at Lawrences didn't look to be the same quality, but again, if you can physically see it and determine what work needed doing to bring it to top quality level, then you might make a judgement that it was worth every penny.
If you still want that £100 Jeffries in the attic or charity shop, it may be there, but you may have a long time to wait and be exceptionally lucky. Don't expect such a bargain at a public auction though!
Alex West
You're right Alex, I did my sums wrong. I'm sure there were many bidders from far afield interested in it. You're also right about the attic, I'm not holding my breath!
Cheers
Andy
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Hello all. I have recently tried to go for 2 Jeffries anglos locally. The first was in Lawrences Auctioneers in Crewkerne, Somerset. Guide price £500-£700. I know that was a silly estimate but the bidding started at £2,100 and, within 15 seconds sold for £3,400. With the commission and VAT that's £4,746.
Last week there was another in Charterhouse in Sherborne that sold for £4,200. With commission that's nearly 6 grand! As far as I could see from the picture, they both needed work.
Who's buying them at these prices? I've given up any idea of ever getting a Jeffries now, short of finding one in a charity shop for £100!
I guess we have the power of the internet to thank, which means everything finds its own level.
Any thoughts?
Vegetarian Glue?
in Instrument Construction & Repair
Posted
Of course it is. I was being stupid. It was confirmed when I read on the label of a new bottle of Feibing's Leathercraft Cement that it "contains vinyl acetate". So basically it's just thin PVA!