RP3

Peter is of course correct. My choice of the word "integral" implied too much and I should have said it was an "as written" part of the tune rather that an alternative way of playing that part of the passage. However, after looking at various other transcriptions of this tune, the triplet only showed up in the one source I had originally consulted, so it is apparently just a variation as Peter pointed out. Mea culpa! But it still gives you a context for one of the triplet combinations we were discussing. Now search out the alternate transcriptions, and you will also see the ways you can avoid that triplet if you -- like me -- have a rough time with the fingering!! Ross Schlabach

Hi once more Greg, Just reviewed another tune, the Templehouse Reel, and it has the F#, E, D triplet we discussed last -- in the A part. In this tune, it is integral and not an ornament added by Noel. As I mentioned yesterday, it is not fun as a pinkie, 2nd finger, 3rd finger triplet, but it is a basic part of the tune. You might want to check it out - again even if it is not the one you were seeking. Ross Schlabach

Hi Greg, First off, there is no way to do an F#, E, D on the C row because there is no F# on the C row -- the F# is on the G row. Using both rows, it can be done but the fingering (draw, press, draw on the pinkie, second finger, third finger) is not the easiest. But let's look at Trip to Durrow to see if we can't find what you are really looking for. Looking at my notes and listening to the tune, I wonder if instead the ornament you are searching for is D, E, C#, D. That shows up in "Trip.." in the A part, and is played: D LH G row, E RH C row, C# RH accidental row, D LH G row (all on the press) Even if this is not the ornament you are seeking, it is a fun one to learn and use. Ross Schlabach

Hi Greg, If in fact the triplet is D,E, F# then the next question is "in which octave." It might help greatly if you happen to know what song this "ornament" was featured in? Without those answers, we can try to at least work out the different combinations for that three note triplet. In the higher octave, it would start with a press D on the top button in the G row, followed by the E (same button on the draw), and finished with the draw F# which is the first button on the G row right hand. This triplet frequently is followed by the press G, so you could have thought you heard or saw D,E, G -- and just didn't hear the draw F# clearly in that combination. This is frequently used by Noel and others. Another possibility that I doubt is what you are seeking could start from the draw D on the C row, right side, second button, move to draw E on the G row left side and finish on the draw F# on the G row right side, 1st button. A 3 draw note triplet strikes me as unlikely but stranger things I'm sure have happened. The lower octave triplet would have two possible normal combinations with the more likely one starting with the press D on the 4th button down on the G row, followed by the E press on the C row second button, and finished with the draw F# on the left side 4th button G row. IMHO the other alternative is less likely to be used and the only change from the first one is to start with the draw D on the C row. Where a finger may be needed next often controls the starting point to avoid things like having to use a single finger to jump two quick notes in a row. My above examples all focused on the D, E, F# triplet but Noel uses so many other triplets and ornaments that it is nearly impossible to give you good advice without knowing the context. Also, I have to acknowledge that Noel does have some rather wild ornaments used in his tunes like the one that appears at the beginning of the A part in the March of the Kings Laois (sp?). I've been struggling with many of them since my first class with him in 1996, the 17 years hence at the NHICS and again this August. But if you have an idea of the tune where it was used, I have a full collection of the assigned tunes for all those years and could probably locate the fingering in my notes. Regards, Ross Schlabach

Attiel, I expect that you have not gotten any response because the budget you are working with will not permit buying a concertina that anyone could in good conscience recommend to you. There are cheap Chinese CSO's (concertina shaped objects) out there, but they and the other stuff that can be purchased for less than £200 can not be relied on to function properly and provide a decent playing experience. Please don't get me wrong; I am not trying to insult you for your budget. I am just trying to let you know that concertinas -- even entry level ones -- are expensive. As a for instance, my first concertina cost $1,200 and that was almost 20 years ago. I might have found something cheaper then, but I never regretted the investment and that was for a decent model and not a starter instrument. The closest Anglo model I can find to your budget is around £215-£250 (Concertina Connection "Rochelle") using the current US-UK exchange rates with no allowance for VAT. The English model equivalent is called the "Jackie" and would convert to about £220 plus VAT. These would be the least expensive models I have heard anyone on this forum recommend and these are probably not without some issues based on comments posted in the past. There are a number of older and seemingly inexpensive concertinas that occasionally pop up on eBay, but these usually require work from qualified repairmen and these repair costs can easily top £200 by themselves. I'm not sure how to advise you going forward. Buying an instrument for a friend is always a risky business since they may not love what you have bought for them or don't have the motivation to stick with it. You haven't said why you picked the concertina or even if you were looking for an Anglo, an English, or a Duet model but of course the limitations I mentioned above apply to all types fairly uniformly. Is it possible that you could get your friend interested in music through a different, less expensive instrument? If he/she has expressed a serious interest in learning the concertina, maybe you could contribute to a purchase with the recipient putting in funds too. In any case good luck, Ross Schlabach

Hi Steve, I imagine that an argument can be made that it doesn't matter. But I have played concertinas (Anglos) with flat buttons, fully round tipped buttons and slightly domed buttons, and there is no doubt in my mind that slightly domed buttons are by far the most comfortable. And for me, what is most comfortable helps me play at my best. However, this is just one man's opinion. Good luck with your new concertina -- whenever it arrives. Ross Schlabach

As someone who has been going to Noel Hill's summer classes for eighteen years (yes I know that's a bit over the top), I get my concertina batteries recharged each time. The value of this motivation should not be underestimated. But each year I also find that I am technically challenged by Noel's selection of tunes that require me to expand my fingering abilities or expose me to music I might not otherwise discover. Then there's the comraderie with other folks who share your love of the music and the instrument. However, do keep in mind that you only get a benefit from attending a class if you put in the effort, so it is a cooperative effort! Ross Schlabach

Larre, we are counting on you for maximum video and or photo documentation of this neat gathering for those of us who can't paddle over to join in on the festivities. And have a great time. Ross Schlabach

Daniel, Theo is right. I was referring to the fact that the reeds were riveted rather than clamped as been the more common method for traditional construction -- notwithstanding Wheatstone's use of riveted reeds in some of its earlier instruments. Steve noted the absence of valves. I would imagine that the photo was taken before the valves were installed since it is difficult to believe the concertina would work properly without them. Ross Schlabach

While his designs are fresh and construction is unique, I noted that the reeds which he calls "concertina reeds" sure look like accordion reeds in brass frames. So the important question will be, how does it sound? Many of the hybrid makers have come close to a true concertina reed sound with accordion reeds with regular aluminum shoes -- either waxed in or held by screws. It will be interesting to know if the use of accordion reeds in somewhat traditionally shaped brass shoes has brought the sound any closer to that of traditionally made concertinas. Unfortunately, as past recordings have taught us, the difference may not be obvious on Internet recording media. It will be interesting to hear reports from folks who have an opportunity to try these out in person. Ross Schlabach

My mistake. I relied on the "New Member" moniker below his name. Nevertheless, the rest of my comments stand and since he has been a member since 2004 (thanks Daniel), the IP has been on this forum long enough to know what is needed with a For Sale posting. Curiouser and curiouser! Ross Schlabach

Unfortunately, given that you are brand new to this forum and given that your posting is devoid of any useful information, you should be aware that most of the readers here will likely conclude that your offer is a scam and reject it and you out of hand. If you are a serious and legitimate seller, posting some basic information on the concertina you want to sell (maker, model, asking price and a picture or two, plus a willingness to answer reasonable questions about the concertina in question) are the best way for you to establish some credibility. Ross Schlabach

The Noel Hill classes in the USA are intended for the Anglo concertina even though he will work with EC players too. Ross Schlabach

I have taken my Dipper to high humidity environments (Pete Gibbons' yard in August for NHICS) with no major issues caused by the humidity change other than a reed starting to buzz by being squashed in its holder by the rising humidity. That being said, the increased humidity would have been nothing like the changes your instrument would have faced in Vietnam and Latin American. And I'll say again that IMHO both of these trips were inadvisable for an instrument of that quality and expense -- it is just not made to withstand those extremes. Nevertheless, there is NO way that humidity can bend a metal lever in the manner you described. But leaving a Dipper out or only in a soft case is just asking for trouble. If it was on the floor, it could have been kicked accidentally, knocked by a vacuum or mishandled with painful results. A hard case isn't an option; it is a must in all situations. It isn't large or heavy but it is the only way to protect your investment. Hopefully the damage can be properly repaired. I imagine that you have learned a valuable lesson about what not to do with an expensive concertina. If you need to have concertina with you in these exotic environments, why not pick up a second, less valuable instrument to take with you. Ross Schlabach

Judging by the manufacturing date you posted on eBay (2016), this must be some special Back to the Future concertina. Joking aside, it looks like a lovely instrument. Good luck with the auction. Ross Schlabach

And of course, the Noel Hill Irish Concertina School in July & August here in the US. PM me if you would like additional info. Ross Schlabach

Larre, You are not the only Irish Anglo player who can't get his fingers around the concept of the EC. I tried a while back and was completely befuddled. Bet many of the EC players feel the same way about the Anglo. Happy holidays, Ross Schlabach

We have two Australian Shepherds and the younger one will curl up at my feet while I'm playing my Jeffries. The older one will stay in the room too but she doesn't want to be too close. As for the cat, she's OOH when the concertina comes out -- dogs or no dogs! Ross Schlabach

Mike, whether it is Wheatstone ECs, Jeffries Anglos, Martin guitars, or Paolo Soprani, the audience always seems to have a high level of expectation! But we do what we can do, and just hope it is good enough. Of course I have discovered that I am my own most serious critic. Just keep playing and smile! Ross Schlabach

Mike, since I am an Anglo player and therefore relatively ignorant of EC models, which picture is your new Model 21? I know that 1915 comes during a prime period for Wheatstones, but I couldn't pick it out of a line-up!! Oh, BTW, you got it from a great concertina repair artiste. Greg has done awesome work for me for a number of years including a full restoration on a 1890s (+/-) bone button Jeffries which included replacing both pin boards. Happy Holidays, Ross Schlabach

After seeing Alex's post, I checked my bone button Jeffries. I have 28 and 30 button models from the 1880s -1890s period and none of them have any mahogany components. They all appear to have sycamore action boards too but it could be some other light appearing wood. It doesn't surprise me that the instruments appear to made of a single wood type since this would greatly simplify the manufacturing process for any home or shop workers doing the casework. IMHO, the selective use of woods, while common in other instrument making for generations, was less common in the earlier part of our concertina history (other than the dominant use of sycamore in reed pans) but has become more prevalent as more recent and current makers have endeavored to avoid the flaws they discovered in older instruments. Ross Shlabach

Sean, on my former small Dipper Cotswold, the soundboards were Cuban mahogany. Mine were also reinforced with two opposing double dovetailed splines. I can't remember what the reed pans were made of. As for the Jeffries reed pans, it's my understanding that the reed pans are sycamore. More importantly, IMHO, is the fact that they are thicker than the reed pans of other makers. It will be interesting to see what others have to say about the topic. Ross Schlabach

I could be wrong, but it looks like these have been overcleaned and have lost not only their patina but possibly their structure too. I have several concertinas with bone buttons that looked like they could benefit from a good cleaning, but I never have wanted to risk any damage. So I left them alone and they play fine. Just saying... Ross Schlabach

Hi Confused, You haven't expressed a specific interest and so that somewhat ties our hands in making suggestions to you. But I'll take a stab just the same as I am an Anglo player and have both pitched instruments. Should you want to involve yourself in the Irish music scene, then the C/G would be the logical recommendation. Most Irish players play C/G in sessions just because it's always been that way if for no other. Playing a G/D in an Irish session could be done but you'd always be an octave down and the character of ITM is all instruments play the same notes and the sound is dictated by the instrument participating. Harmony does not have a great role in ITM. If ITM is not one of your goals, then the issue gets a bit muddier and I can offer little more direction. I have read but don't have firsthand knowledge that a G/D would go well with English tunes -- if not too fast. While I primarily play C/G, I really prefer the sound and character of lower pitched instruments and really like my G/D. But as was mentioned by Don, the G/D as a lower pitched instrument plays a good bit slower and you would be hard pressed to keep up in a sprightly session. The reeds just don't respond as quickly. Of course, if you are going to be playing alone, then either will be fine. Good luck, Ross Schlabach

Haven't heard from him in a long time, but Mo Turcotte lives a short ways from Atlanta but I don't know if he frequents this forum. He sold me my first concertina, a Suttner anglo. Ross Schlabach