Gan Ainm

I have a 67-key Wheatstone Maccann Duet, which I intend to put on the market, but haven't found the time to do so. It's in full working order and does not need any repairs or maintenance, so it's not an exact match to your requirements, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. I'm not in a hurry to sell and I would be aiming to get the market price for a Wheatstone 67-key Maccann Duet - I bought it in the UK last year, so I will need to go back over bank records to see what it cost me in local currency before setting a sales price. I don't have photos at this time, but I will find the time to take some, if the budgets match and you are potentially interested in buying it. It goes down to F2 on the left-hand side and to G3 on the right-hand side and comes with it's original, and functional, case. I'm in Dublin, Ireland. Where possible, I prefer face-to-face transactions, but, since the duet is not a typical Irish music instrument, there is a limited market here in Ireland for Mc Cann Duets, so I expect to have to sell this one at a distance.

Yes, I agree. In any case, to satisfy curiosity, I paid significantly more than the price mentioned above.

The sound is surprisingly good, given that it appears not to have been played in a while. Many of our Irish traditional tunes were composed before copyright and royalties became important and the names of the composers of many tunes have been lost down the years. In tune books, where the author's name is unknown, the convention is to put "Gan Ainm" in the place where the composer's name should be, meaning "author unknown" or liteally "without name". "Gan Ainm" is therefore a well-known phrase in Irish music and it's what came to mind when I was prompted for a username when signing up for this concertina forum.

I am guessing that by "poeple like" you mean people living within easy reach of the seller of an instrument. A face-to-face sale certainly has advantages. The buyer can see what he's buying and who he's buying from and the seller doesn't have to worry about payment clearing or arranging shipping/insurance. This instrument was on sale in my locality. If it had been on sale in your home town, then I would probably not have been aware of it and, in any case, would not have been in the running for it. When I saw this new topic, I realised that it related to the concertina I had just bought the day before, so I though it best to let people know that this particular concertina is no longer available, since I am now it's proud new owner!

I bought this concertina, independently, last night, so it is no longer available.

I have now added a selection of photos of the Lachenal Baritone B-flat/F anglo concertina for sale..

I've added a short sound sample of the Baritone to the original post above. I will add some photos as soon as time allows.

The concertina is now sold and donation made. Many thanks to everyone who expressed interest.

The donation has now been made, as per the instructions at the top of this forum. Many thanks Paul, it's a really great service.

The concertina has now been sold, many thanks to everyone who expressed interest. The appropriate donation will be made to concertina.net when funds clear.

Perhaps you could ask Chris to rent this one to you while your own is being overhauled.

From the point of view of Irish music, if you plan to attend classes or workshops, I would suggest you go with a C/G, since this is by far the most popular type for Irish music and is assumed for most tuition. If you plan to teach yourself and you like a deeper sound, a G/D may be worth considering. G/D seems to be popular for playing English folk music, but C/G is definitely the most popular for Irish music. As I said previously, at least one well-known Irish musician played a G/D as her main instrument for many years (but then switched to a C/G). By the way, just in case you decide not to go with either the two instruments you mention, with a G/D 20 buttons(keys) is ok, but with a C/G you need more. As a minimum, assuming you want to play in D, you will need C# in addition to the two main rows. The "standard C/G" is 30-key, but, for example, a 26-key has all the buttons you will need and can generally be bought at a lower price than a 30-key. The above relates only to Irish music, the situation might be different for other forms of Celtic music. As someone else already mentioned in your last thread, concertina maker and member of this forum, Frank Edgley, also lives in Canada and if/when you decide to upgrade, it would be worthwhile to contact him.

For anyone interested, my Edgley C/G Professional is still available, across the water in Ireland - click here for details

Kitty Hayes played a Stagi G/D right up until just before she recorded the 'A Touch of Clare' CD and she got really great music from it. She played it regularly on Sunday nights in Gleesons of Coore and I think she was still playing the Stagi the first few times she played on stage at the Willie Clancy Concertina night in Miltown Malbay. A G/D can seem like a logical choice to someone starting out to play Irish music, since G and D are popular keys at many Irish music sessions. Starting out on a G/D means that your tunes in G will be an octave lower than most other people at the session and that if/when you decide to switch to a C/G, the tunes you learned in D will now be in G, the tunes you learned in G will now be in C and you will need to learn new fingering to play in D. Of course, you don't have to switch to a C/G and, if you do, you will have a collection of tunes in C as a nice bonus, as indeed was the case with Kitty.

Except for the treble, of course.

QUOTE (Azalin @ Dec 17 2008, 05:41 PM) * I love Edgley concertinas. I own one, and still have one and will never sell it. Now that sentiment is exactly what makes these instruments so valuable. Regardless of how hard Frank works, there can only ever be a relatively small number of concertinas in the world, which have been hand-made by Frank Edgley and an even smaller number available for sale in any given period. The laws of supply and demand will push up the price of these instruments over time - I have absolutely no doubt about this. It is of course very clear that your earlier comments were indeed well-intentioned and that you did not in any way mean to devalue Frank's excellent reputation.

Of course, this concertina is worth the price - it is excellent value for such a high quality brand new instrument, compared to prices paid in Ireland and elsewhere for other instruments. Your market in Canada may be different, but here in Ireland there is a constant demand for high quality instruments and Frank's concertina certainly fits that description. I specifically said that this concertina would be of interest to EU residents. It has been legally imported into Ireland (and hence the EU), with all taxes and duties paid. The purchaser can walk confidently through customs on return from a future foreign trip, without having to worry about whether he/she will be stopped at customs, or receive a demand in the post from Customs/Revenue in years to come for backdated taxes on on a concertina they might have successfully managed to bring in "under the radar". I am not in a hurry to sell and I will not sell such a wonderful instrument at a loss.

I have added a link to the Edgley section of the Concertina.net Buyer's Guide.

I am happy to share the basis on which I calculated the sales price for the concertina, which was as follows: Purchase Costs: CAD 2425 - Professional Model Concertina CAD 170 - Fallon Case CAD 220 - Shipping & Insurance CAD 2815 - Total Purchase Cost in Canadian Dollars, excluding tax EUR 1851 - Total Purchase Cost in Euro, excluding tax EUR 381 - Irish Value Added Tax (VAT), paid on delivery EUR 55 - Irish Import Duty, paid on delivery EUR 16 - Import Handling Fee, paid on delivery EUR 452 - Total charges on delivery EUR 2303 - Total Purchase Cost in Euro, including tax Sales Costs: EUR 50 - concertina.net advertising fee @ 2% EUR 85 - PayPal fee at 3.4% EUR 135 - Total Sales Costs EUR 2438 - TOTAL COSTS EUR 62 - margin @ 2.5% EUR 2500 - Sales Price The shipping companies calculate and collect VAT & Duty on behalf Revenue/Customs for deliveries originating outside of the EU and will not hand over the package until the bill is settled, so these same charges would apply to any similar instrument arriving in Ireland from outside the EU. If the buyer pays me in cash, then the paypal fee does not apply and, in this case, I have offered a refund of 100 Euro, made up of the 85 Euro paypal fee, plus a token "luck penny".

Status as of 11th May 2009: The concertina is now sold. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. I am selling a brand new Edgley C/G Professional Model concertina with wooden ends, 7-fold bellows and angled reed pans, which arrived yesterday by courier from Frank Edgley. The reason I am selling it is that, while on Frank's waiting list, I was lucky enough to find and buy another concertina (Jeffries), which I have grown accustomed to, so I no longer need this one. I am based in Dublin, Ireland. All import duties and taxes have been paid. As per the rules of this forum, a donation will be made to concertina.net if it is sold as a result of this posting. I will sell it for 2,500 Euro, plus postage/insurance - this is equivalent to my costs, plus a 2.5% margin. This opportunity to get a brand new Edgley concertina right now, without having to join the waiting list, will be of particular interest to people living in Ireland, but will also be of interest to people in the UK and other EU countries, since import duties and taxes have already been paid - copies of receipts can be provided to the purchaser, if required. This is a really beautiful instrument with 7-fold bellows, angled reed pans and a lovely sound. There is a section on Edgley Concertinas in the Buyer's Guide here on concertina.net. I hope that, between the Concertina.net Buyer's Guide and Frank's own website there should be enough initial information for prospective buyers. The specific model details are: Brand new Professional Model Edgley concertina Traditional wooden ends Key of C/G Standard Jeffries 30 button layout 7-fold bellows Fallon case Available immediately Located in Dublin, Ireland Terms: Payment in full prior to shipping. The buyer, whether from Ireland or abroad, may of course collect the concertina in person, in which case postage/insurance would not apply. If you collect the concertina in person and pay the above price in cash, I will refund 100 Euro to you as a "luck penny". For avoidance of doubt, this is not an auction and I reserve the sole right to determine whether to sell the instrument, who to sell it to and at what price.

It wasn't my intention to put anyone off buying. I assume that the concertina is this one, closing shortly on eBay, so it's still not too late! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170285653161

Thanks, I had misunderstood "consideration". I have updated my post above.

Yes, most people will take them at their word and, in the vast majority of cases, the word will be kept and everything works out fine. Rules and regulations are generally written to cater for the small percentage of cases where everything does not run smoothly. For example, there may be situations where either the seller or the buyer genuinely needs to pull out of a transaction due to unforseen circumstances, or an item may get lost/damaged in the post, etc. In these small number of cases, an agreed set of rules might help to avoid embarassing character assassination type flare-ups. As a last resort, where agreement cannot be reached, either side may revent to looking at their legal entitlement and it was in this context that my earlier posting was written, in response to the comment: "...At some point, the law of contract will apply..."

Go to: www.concertina-spares.com then click on "CATALOGUE PAGE" and scroll down to the bellows section

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in general, a contract exists if there is: an offer, an acceptance of the offer and a consideration (e.g. money). Of course, laws vary from country to country and may depend on whether the buyer/seller is a business/private individual, but I would guess that most contract law is built around a similar basic rule. So, on this basis, it would seem that either party is free to withdraw from a transaction agreed as a result of a "concertina for sale" ad on this website, up to the point where money actually changes hands, assuming that the sale is not by auction. [Edited 7th December '08 to add: Based on the post by hcjones below and Wikipedia, it seems that my understanding of "consideration" was incorrect and that it is not necessary for money to actually change hands in order for a contract to be established, only that the price is agreed. This seems like common sense, so perhaps the law is not always an ass! I am leaving the original post unaltered, so as to give context to follow-up comments.] As regards auctions, "official" auctions will presumably have rules which say that, by bidding, you accept the terms of the auction, which will generally have been written by a lawyer and will presumably legally bind you to complete the transaction. I would see the greatest potential for conflict in "concertina for sale" postings, which follow the auction format, but without "proper" auction rules. It might even be possible that the operators of this website could be drawn into a conflict arising our of such a transaction, e.g. by either party claiming that the site is operating as an auction house. I don't know whether the obligation to complete an auction transaction is created purely by the rules of an individual auction, or whether there is general "auction law", similar to contract law - perhaps the concertina-playing lawyers out there can comment. If there is a real risk that the operators of this website could be drawn into such a conflict, then I guess the options would be to either leave things stand and hope it never happens, or outlaw auction-style postings, or employ a lawyer to write up auction rules and become an "eBay for Concertinas".