[Keeping Time]

I've known so many people who try to learn to not tap their foot/feet.  It's a habit that can be annoying and distracting for others.

True, but sometimes tapping your feet (or even stomping) can be a good thing, in traditional music. Especially for dance-type tunes, it can help you get your body into playing more, getting a strong sense of drive and rhythm. The sound is also a part of much folk music, certainly in American old-time, barn-dance type music, for example. Of course, there are many times when you don't want to add extra noise, so I think it's best to be able to tap your foot or not, as the situation dictates. Unless you're only playing classical or "formal" styles of music, in which case, you'd never want to audibly tap your foot.

 

Often when playing a dance tune, I feel the energy of the players and dancers ramp up (usually nearer the end of a tune), and it really helps to "kick it up a notch" by adding some stomping. Don't you think? But, some people will unconsciously speed up when they start "stomping." And it works better if your group is more rustic.

 

I've heard an old recording of a lady who grew up in the Appalachians (eastern US Mountains) in the early 20th century, whose father was a minister. He encouraged his kids to play music and sing, including devotional and folk tunes. But they were NOT to "pat their feet," since that would be too much like dancing, and they were not allowed to dance!

 

My answer to the original question: all of the above! But Jim's right -- tapping your foot shouldn't become too much of a habit or a crutch. Playing along with recordings is a great exercise in learning to keep better time. If you can tap your foot or not at will while playing, great!

 

Lisa, did this person say why you should tap your foot? Was it for every tune?

[Concertinas In Literature]

I ran across a few gems recently. This from something pithily entitled Old London Street Cries and the cries of to-day with Heaps of Quaint Cuts including Hand-coloured Frontispiece : by ANDREW W. TUER, Author of "Bartolozzi and his Works," &c. 1885. The following text is on page 51:

Our streets are now paraded by companies of boys or half-grown men who delight in punishing us by means of that blatant and horribly noisy instrument of dissonant, unchangeable chords, the German concertina.

And here's another flattering remark, from a website called The Victorian Dictionary. An excerpt from The Wild Tribes of London, by Watts Phillips, 1855, Chapter VIII:

We make an effort to proceed, when our path is blocked up by a Hebrew youth, who, bowing gracefully, produces a dilapidated concertina, and fills the air with such horrid and discordant sounds that we hurriedly become its purchaser, as the speediest and safest means of escaping the annoyance.

To end on a happy note, from the same site: Unsentimental Journeys; or Byways of the Modern Babylon, by James Greenwood, 1867, Chapter XIX:

...about twelve o'clock there struck up some music close at hand. I don't know what else there was, but I could make out a cornopean, and a flute, and a concertina. It was the "waits." Now, everybody knows how beautifully the Christmas-story writers write about the waits, and their enchanting music. The musicians were just far enough away to make their performance pleasant and soothing to any one pleasantly half-asleep. I could make it out to be " The Last Rose of Summer " they were playing, and they played it so nicely that I was quite sorry when they had finished.

[What Other Hobbies Do You Have]

How may other concertina players are also "closet" French horn players?

Heh. I played French Horn in school bands, years ago. I love the sound, and I still have one, but it hasn't been touched in ages.

[Stagi Anglo W-15-ln]

Hi, I started playing concertina last summer, so I'm still a real beginner, although there are a few slow simple tunes I can play with some pals of mine that don't sound bad. I started out on a used 30-button anglo I got for $100, it had no name, but the tuning was good and it sounded decent (better than several other cheap concertinas I've tried). But there were a few slow and sticky reeds, and the response wasn't great. I opened it up, and it was glued together so I couldn't get at most of the reeds without risking destroying the instrument. So I decided to get a better box, but I'm not ready to appreciate or judge the merits of a high-end or vintage concertina. So I ended up getting the Stagi 30-button anglo with "improved action," the W-15-LN. I'd tried the W-15-MS, and thought it sounded and played better than my cheap box. The W-15-LN does seem to have a somewhat faster and tighter action, although I do like the looks of the wooden ends of the MS better than the black lacquered LN.

 

So, the Stagi responds quicker, all the reeds work fine, the bellows seem a bit more efficient, the air button vents quicker, and the leather bellows smell nice. But, there are a few issues I wanted to discuss.

 

First of all, the C#/D# button (#1 on the upper row on the right side) started sticking. I took it apart, and while the insides look a bit nicer than my old one, it's still clearly not a high-end instrument. I couldn't see what was making the key stick, so I tried rubbing the walls of the hole the button comes through with pencil lead, to "lubricate" it a bit with graphite. This did seem to make the button move a bit smoother (I may do it to the other buttons), but it still stuck.

 

So I made a guess that the metal arm the key presses on was rubbing the inside wall of the wood making up the case of the concertina -- it did seem awfully close. I filed away a little groove in the fairly soft wood, and now it seems to work fine. I thought I'd just mention this as a comment on the quality of the Stagi concertinas, and as a possible fix if anyone else has a similar problem.

 

Another issue is one of sound. While in general the Stagi sounds a bit nicer than my old box, some of the notes on the middle of the left side sound a bit "hollow" or "honky." It sounds to me to have something to do with the acoustics of the sound chamber, not the reeds. Is there anything that can be done about this? The grille material seems to be some sort of plasticky mesh with a foil-like exterior. Could changing that help the sound? I don't like the looks of it anyway, I was thinking maybe some sort of coarse-weave fabric would work -- any ideas?

 

One last thing! When I release the lower notes on the left-hand side, there's a quiet springy "bwoiiiing..." sound. I think it's the reed, because it only happens when I move the bellows, not when I press and release the button "silently" (without working the bellows). Is there any way to get rid of this sound? Does it signify some other kind of problem?

 

Thanks for any help guys, I've been lurking here a while before my recent posts, it seems like a really nice group.

[Midi Concertinas]

Well, the discussion did branch off of some people saying they'd be dubious about the appropriateness of a MIDI concertina at their "local session." And others posted that it might not be so bad, and implied that one would be closed-minded for wanting to exclude one. I don't think that's necessarily the case, and wanted to make that clear.

 

Have we been "up in arms" here? Seems like a healthy discussion to me, I've found this thread pretty civil and may have even learned a thing or two. And I agree with Jim's last post completely, so I think we're OK here. People will play with the people they want to play with, and won't play with those they don't want to play with, so it's pretty self-policing anyway...which is exactly how music "evolves" in a grass-roots tradition.

[Midi Concertinas]

Yeah, MIDI is actually just a computer serial port protocol and a set of codes for note on/off, volume, etc., and it came out in about 1980. I just used MIDI as a shorthand for electronic (computer generated) instruments.

 

I never thought you were arguing that acoustic instruments could or should be replaced, just as I've not been arguing that electronic instruments should be banned. It's just that I got a feeling that you were saying there was absolutely no reason anyone should be skeptical of MIDI instruments. But I think there are good reasons to be skeptical, based on the history of acoustic instruments in traditional music, how MIDI instruments have been used in the past, and the real differences between acoustic and electronic instruments. One can be skeptical and open-minded at the same time. But different people should be allowed to explore the path they want to explore, without someone telling them they're unreasonable for excluding what they're not interested in.

[Midi Concertinas]

I've worked for years simulating things on computers. I've programmed digital audio quite extensively. I have a pretty good idea of the limitations and strengths of it. My interest in acoustic instruments stems from the interaction between a musician and an instrument that vibrates air directly...the complex physical and acoustical interactions that take place are FAR too complex to be modeled perfectly, they're not even understood. I don't think the strength of electronic instruments is in trying to replace this interaction. Of course, this is even more true for an instrument like a violin, or even a whistle, than for a concertina.

 

I'm still not sure I've made myself clear. I'm not opposed to how MIDI instruments "sound." I'm interested in the process of creating sounds from finely crafted instruments, feeling the vibrations, turbulence, and the direct physical connection with the sounds being made. I'm interested in what this brings out in people. An acoustic instrument has no choice but to obey the laws of physics -- your subtle inflections aren't there because someone tried to figure out how to make them happen, but because that's the way the world works. I'm sure others are just as interested in exploring what computers are capable of. But with MIDI instruments, it's very easy to get "disconnected" from vibrations and acoustics. And no matter what you do, there will always be an electronic "disconnect" as things go through an electronic circuit and a speaker, instead of wood and metal vibrating the air directly. I'm in no way implying that this dooms them to uselessness -- just that there's a fundamental difference that shouldn't be ignored.

 

I don't mind if others want to integrate artificial instruments with acoustic ones. I very well might want to listen to the result. But I hope they don't mind if I seek out pure acoustic situations to play in for myself, and they at least try to understand where I'm coming from.

[Midi Concertinas]

I'm not saying it'll be the "end of the tradition" or anything like that. I'm saying a healthy skepticism is natural and good for ANY tradition, otherwise there wouldn't BE any tradition. Skepticism is not the same as dismissing something out of hand -- I agree with you that one should keep an open mind, which I think is your main point. There's certainly a place for MIDI instruments in any genre, if one wants to explore that. But it's extremely valuable for me, and many others, to have a place free from amplification and computer-generated sounds. Can you agree with that point?

[Midi Concertinas]

Tradition, especially in Irish music, is a living and growing thing, not a fear of innovation or change.

True, but I think in any tradition, there's an "intelligence" that's been built up over decades (and possibly centuries), which is where the wealth of the musical form lies. Part of the worth of any traditional music form to me is the organic nature of it, being played on true acoustic instruments. One could intellectualize many reasons for this appeal -- the sound coming directly from the instrument, not some amp to the side, the physical control over volume and sound instead of turning knobs to "arbitrarily" change them, or the complex, individual, and often "unpolished" sound of acoustic instruments. But in any case, I think the intelligence or "common sense" built into traditional music is justifiably wary of MIDI instruments. I see how they're used in other musical situations, and for the most part, that's what I look at traditional music forms to get away from. I'm willing to hear an exception, as I'm sure there will be. But for the most part, I'm not interested. A "living tradition" is not the same as no tradition at all.

[What Do You Love...]

About music...well, I love the flexibility of it...the elusiveness...the way it can swoop and fly and stutter and jump and flow...and when you're "with it" and the people you're playing with are too, there's a directness to it, you aren't thinking or trying, you're doing...and when you hear that it goes straight to your spine and makes all your little hairs stand on end, because it's amazing that mere humans can achieve such a simple, direct, beautiful thing.

 

About concertina -- I'm just a beginner, but I like two aspects of its personality in particular. First of all, I like a bouncy, rough & tumble, sea-shanty type accompaniment with all sorts of pokes and bursts and skittery jumps and grunts. Secondly, I like a smooth, swelling, simple & elegant singing style with subtle ornamentation and simple lines, sometimes overlapping, sometimes singular, but slippery and smooth throughout.

[Pronunciation Problems Again]

I was at Boaz Accordions a week or two ago, and the (very knowledgeable) empolyee pronounced it "stah-jee." Similar to "stodgy," as mentioned above.