gavdav

agreed Chris - I just changed the "extra button" ont he low end of the D row of my 46 key to gie the A/B in the same direction - this just meant I had a sequence of a/b/Csharp/d in a sensible sequence!

Thanks chaps - it answers the question I was looking at -I have a G/D; I have basically duplicated the A/B of my G row onto the bottom end of the left hand D row (same directions as one on G row,). I wondered if this was something with any precedent. whilst it is notes duplicated in the same direction it has suddenly opened up easy fingerings of two keys for me that were awkward before - those being A major and B minor. I guess the same modification on a C/G would allow english style players (up and down the rowers) to play easily in D on a C/G with little or no cross rowing.

Hello - I am selling My Wheastone style Wakker A1 Anglo. I am finding a C/G 30 key is not proving as useful for me as I once thought it might and this sublime box is languishing unplayed. It is a superb concertina - light, strident but sweet toned, modelled on a top period Wheatstone Linota. It has raised ebonised ends, and classic concertina tone. It is in excellent, nearly new condition, perfect tune with a tiny amount of fingernail wear to the french polish between some buttons. More details can be found at http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/A-1.htm The W-A1 is based on the vintage Wheatstone linota anglo. Both instruments share the same reed pan layout and construction, and because of that have a comparable sound. The difference is in the reed size and scaling. The W-A1 has long scale reeds and a finer reed scaling (more reed frame sizes for the same compass) which results in a more powerful tone and better balance. New price is now in excess of £3000 before import and shipping and the wait time is close to two years. I am open to offers near to £3000 I would FAR prefer to sell within the UK. Please mail if you have any questions. I will send photos on request (with email addresses) here is a reference pic from Wim's site.

Hi all - in view of discussion on the concertina history thread, I am curious as to what broadly constitues a normal layout for the additional buttons once you get above 30 keys on an anglo. I am particularly interested in what is the norm on say, a 40 key G/D. This is a result of some discussion on the history thread about larger Wheastone concertinas.

from the letter, and corresponding receipt it looks like he got an off the shelf C/G instead. A shame as a 40 key Bb/F would be nice round here about now!

Hi Steve - a difficult question to answer. I had a go at playing them this morning in A and there was a lot of bellows reversal or uncomfortable fingering patterns. Following on from what we've talked about previously I just swapped the A and B reeds over onthat extra button on the D row - it does mean it duplicates the directions on the G row but means A is now just one button over on the D row and you have the key triplet in one direction ( the pull). You can chord it then quite easily on the G row, lefthand on the pull, plus I have an A drone to go at - I've made a quick video but it is fourteen megs and I don't now how to link to it... if you can bear a file that size I'll send it to you (and anyone else who cares!) Actually - hang on - I can post it on youtube now I think of it. One day I'll take down my bad movies and replace them with competent versions here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBo9b5t10f4

The patent is around 1884 I believe - Angela Lee of Carlisle also had one of these. Aha - here you go check this link out http://www.concertina.com/jones/index.htm there are very few of these about, many have been retuned and I guess all are pretty close to the patent date.

Great stuff Steve - forgotten how big that thing is - the two left hand thumb keys seems like an eminently sensible idea which you would think might have cropped up on more smaller instruments. Looking at those pics makes my 46 key seem positively dainty!

I have two normal rows plus accidentals as per a normal Wheatstone G/D, then the lowest note of the right hand D row gives pushed A/Pulled B which gives you a/B/Csharp/D/E/Fsharp on the D row then I have Gsharp/Gsharp, a/a on the inside fourth/drone/duet row. This makes playing in A just (well, almost) like playing G across the rows in the right hand but across a row. It is weird but it works. Haven't figured the rest of the layout out yet, but have written it out as per Mr. Kirkpatrick's sagely instruction. All good fun. Steve - I just edited this and there should be an attached layout. If anyone else can spot any additional logic to this layout I'd love to hear from people! - layout amended and moved to a new thread. thnx.

mine is a humble wooden ended 20 key, 1870s also C.Jeffries Senior and also Bb

Morning Steve - glad you made it here. I was wondering about starting a thread about these oversize beasts. Mine is a mere 46 keys and plays in G/D/A. 30995, April 1926

Yes - Newmoon is definitely still alive. I've needed to contact them recently to update my insurance policy and found them to be efficient and courteous as usual. I have found them very easy to deal with over the phone; they seem to expect it rather than web/e-mail contact. I agree that their website is not one of the best, but I don't hold that against them. They are insurance brokers after all, not web designers. The chap I have dealt with is Joe Carne, e-mail: joe.carne@newmooninsurance.com I just spoke to Joe who was very helpful in organising insurance for my boxes too - happy with the detail he could provide and all seems good so far.

I noticed that, and there has been a 30 key lachenal listed on here with an asking price of £2700 - I can't understand why prices are suddenly so high unless people are actually achieving those. Sadly if that happens it will encourage people to vacuum up the cheap 30 keys and punt them on at profit making it even harder for beginners to get decent instruments. To be fair - the lachenal on here was a metal ended box with more buttons, but with Jeffries holding steady now it seems that there is an upper limit for a lach surely? Don't get me wrong I've played some amazing lachenals but the hook action is always going to limit the value for me...

Private message sent

I have a very lovely, very fast Wim Wakker A1 Linota copy in excellent condition - raised ebonized ends - really it is too good for me and it has rapidly become apparent during the last twelve months that I don't much use a C/G. Is there anyone out there who has a similar quality Bb/F they'd like to swap (or an F/C). I'm an up and down the rows player and mainly sing with the concertina. I would consider selling, but wondered if there was a straightforward swap somewhere...

I have an early c.jeffries concertina - inside on the soundboards are written the number 11 in pencil - does this indicate an instrument number or is that wishful thinking?

oops - this one missed - view of one of the connor's ends showing fretwork.

pics deleted due to space. thnx.

I have a 20 key Bb/f Rosewood(brazillian) Jeffries circa 1870. Despite the limited number of buttons, this is an outstanding box and I have enjoyed singing with it for the last year or so. Dave Prebble did an amazing job of the restoration on this one - it sounds sublime, very fast and with that characteristic rasp. It also has a brand new set of Dave Leese seven fold bellows to make the most of it as a singing instrument. It has half size reed pans and space on the fretwork which COULD accomodate extra buttons. I love this box and it is a very reluctant sale, but needs must. A chance to buy a rare and lovely instrument. Due to an immediate cash flow crisis I am open to any offers above £1000 - again, prefer to ship inside the UK and meeting in person for items of this value is preferred. Any questions please ask and I will endeavour to pass photographs on to any interested parties. This is a superb box, but I am not playing it enough at the moment. c.net donations if sold here.

I have a 20 key rosewood jeffries in Bb/F that I play most days - I got it for accompanying singing and I've found that having less buttons has mad me work harder when playing it - it certainly improved my playing when I went back to the 30 key boxes. I have toyed with the idea of putting an extra button or two on to give it a bit more key flexibility. The fretwork pattern would easily accommodate this and there is, as one would imagine, plenty of space inside.

I play both G/D and C/G (and Bb/F) and thought up until this summer I was going to switch entirely to the G/D - then I heard John Kirkpatrick demoing playing in F on the C/G and it was an incredibly melodic, full sound (better than playing in C???) - it has certainly opened my ears up to a few more possibilities and I'm not in any hurry to get rid of my C/G (probably a good job as I still have to pay for it!)

I have a concertina connection A1 - I love the tone and speed of the action but have found the short air button hard to "ride" because of the ergnomics of the handles (adjuster at the bottom, screwed plate under the thumb). Wim kindly sent me a longer air button but the combination of the extra length and the crimped top on the delrin core mean there is a ridge half way up this has ripped the bushing away almost immediately and the button now wobbles. I could rebush the hole but the same would happen. I think what I need is a solid steel air button of approximately 20mm in length and around 4mm in diameter. Anyone have anything kicking around? other thoughts welcomed Gav

I have a 20 key brazillian rosewood Jeffries. Does anyone know what sort of era we'd be talking for these type of boxes?

I did try moving a few reeds around on my tedrow - it is all much easier on an accordion reeded box as the plates are all the same size and I wanted to try out having some extra reversals of notes. Part of the problem is that on an anglo you're moving a pair of notes, one of which probably doesn't make sense in a new position. Otherwise on a better box the size of shoe/reed/slot/chamber is not the same throughout the instrument. Conceptually I guess you'd be moving towards a new style of instrument. The short answer to your question is certainly for anglo players, that yes, diffferent styles do like subtly different layouts - Irish platers seem to favour the jeffries layout, whereas a former melodeon player I find I prefer the wheatstone accidental layout. Left hand layout can also puzzle me when picking up someone elses concertina sometimes and there are other people experimenting with new layouts all the time. I guess something like a midi or virtual concertina gives a good way of experimenting with layout before committing to the mechanical facts of building it!

you could, but I'm unsure as to why you'd want to. As a guitarist (in open tunings) and anglo player I find the anglo is just some patterns to learn and becuase of its size everything falls under the fingers - on the guitar the use of an altered tuning opens up new voicings ie. a string against another that woudln't be available in standard, or to put similar patterns into one fret position. On the concertina, assuming it has enough buttons, then all the voicings are already there and the stretches are never mind boggling, unless I'm missing something? On a technical note - not all reeds or shoes are the same size on a traditional concertina and you could be doing harm to a valuable instrument. On an accordion reeded box the reeds are often two on a plate.