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As announced at the Kilve Concertina Festival last weekend, I am pleassed to announce that Wim Wakker has now started making Hayden Duet Concertinas. Initially he will be making a batch of 10, 46 Button instruments in the popular 6.25 inch size using REAL CONCERTINA REEDS (not accordion reeds). The first two to be completed by the end of this year and the other eight in 2008. He has opened a "Hayden Concertina Book" for orders. Also in 2008 he expects to be makeing Hayden Duets in a larger size, again with Real Concertina Reeds; and anybody interested should put their name on the Hayden Duet book also.
Inventor.
P.S. Incase you think that I shouldn't be advertising on this Forum; I don't myself receive any personal gain out of these instruments.
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You need the William Kimber book by Dan Worral. This gives the exact buttons and press or draw on an Anglo-concertina to play all the Headington Quarry Morris tunes in the original authentic manner; and loads of other information on other ways of accompanyment. This is the very best concertina book that I have ever come across; I wish this had been available when I first took up the concertina to accompany morrisdancers. over 50 years ago I heared William Kimber playing at an EFDSS Albert Hall Festival. This was several years before I took up the Melodeon and quite a number before I started Anglo. The book is available from EFDSS, Cecil Sharp House, 2 Regents Park Road, LONDON (I don't know the post code). For some reason most of the usual Folk Music Supplyers don't seem to stock it.
Inventor.
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I have had a person with restricted use of the left hand (only two left fingers one very stiff) called "SID" come to my beginner duet concertina classes at Kilve on several occasions, he is the person your friend really needs to talk to, perhaps he is on the internet somewhere or someone might know him. He tried the english concertina first (total failure) and later Maccan, Crane, and Hayden duets with varying sucess.
Don't even consider a 46 Maccan as this instrument starts far too high up on a g' (ie the note below your A string on the fiddle). Even the tunes in the "Easy Peasy Tunebook" which restricts the tunes to only a total of 14 different notes can only be played with two hands on a 46 Maccan. This problem does not arise on the smaller Cranes and Haydens; you need at least 57 (not even 56) on a Maccan.
I did read that somewhere there existed a Maccan System concertina with notes only on the right hand side made specially for a person who lost an arm in WW 1.
However consider that if you do master a duet concertina then as a bonus you will be able to turn it over and play the other side as a Baritone concertina.
Inventor
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Simple answer to first question: yes they do help.
Robin Scard (Colin Dippers associate) made a pair for me for my larger concertina, carved curved solid rosewood under the hand and veneered to match the concertina underneath. Under the thumb end is much higher than the little finger end, not like the picture shown above. There is a picture of a similar one of these on a Scard instrument on a 65 key Duet (not my instrument), elsewhere on the net. The slope on mine is most comfortable, but I could do with the handrest being another half inch higher, and in my opinion raising the thumb achieves nothing except pains at the bottom joint of the thumb after a long time playing.
Inventor.
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Further ancient memories of Rapper.
in 1957 (around Easter I think) the Morris Ring ran a training session at Cecil Sharp House specifically on Rapper. It was taken by Bill Cassie who was the Squire of the Morris Ring at that time; he brought with him one of the dancers from the King's College (Newcastle) Morrismen. and Jimmy Mackie, the fiddle player for the Royal Earsdon Sword Dancers. Jimmy had brought a copy of the six tunes that he played hand written on a sheet of manuscript. there was quite a lot of interest in these tunes and Bill told us that he would make photocopys of this and send it to whoever wanted one. Mine duly arrived and I practiced them very hard as I was going to King's College the following Autumn. I later discovered that these tunes were all in "Kerr's Merry Melodies" tune books which were on sale at the Music Stand at the far end of the Bigg Market off Granger Street.
these tunes were as follows.
From Book 1 under "Irish Jigs":
no1 The Tenpenny Bit, No13 The Blackthorn Stick, No16 Humours of Donnybrook, No24 Rolliking Irishman (also in Book 4 as Father O'Flynn), and No 30 Irish Wiskey.
From Book 2:
No 306 Laird of Cockpen (described as a "Scotch Jig").
That was what was traditionally played for Rapper Dancing and should present no problem for English Concertina players.
When I got to K.C. I found that I could not play them quickly enough on the Melodeon and had to play simpler Jigs like Cock of the North for performance which I was immediately called on to play when we fielded three or four different teams round the pubs and clubs in the area during Rag Week on the third week of term.
Later when we came into contact with Fred Foster of High Spen Sword Dancers I heared his Musician, Tommy Wilkes playing in an entirely different style on the Melodeon. He played the tune described earlier and also a version of Hummors of Donnybrook using the same press one button and waggle it in-out-in as previously described.
Inventor.
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Inventors ancient memories of Rapper & concertina continued.
A dancer and musician came up from Westerhope (this was the continuation of North Wallbottle) one day to check that we were doing this dance correctly. He had an english-concertina with him, which he played a little on but not to speed as he hadn't played it for several years; and ended up presenting this concertina to Bill Cassie (Professor W. F. Cassie) the King' College Morrismen's Squire at that time. The Westerhope Sword dancers had had an extra dancer who used to join in at the end making six dancers. The Tommy and Bessie of the North Wallbottle sword dancers used to join in the dance at the end making seven.
The Bedlington sword dancers has a melodeon player, I met him whilst we were learning their dance from Peter and Luke Muldoon, he was lent a melodeon (Hohner Club III) which he said was exactly like the one he used to play, however after a few attempts at the Irish Washerwoman and Cock of the North, he realised he couldn't play for dancing any longer. The Muldoons were 2nd generation Irish, and Luke remembers his mother dancing an Irish Jig at times.
The Amble Rapper dancers had a fiddle player (Fiddler Jones) who sometimes used to become so engrossed in his playing that he forgot to move on when the dancers ran on down the street for their next stop.
more next week.
Inventor.
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Rapper & Concertina.
Many years ago (49 to be precise) I was at King's College Newcastle and played (melodeon) for the rapper team there, and came into contact with people from several of the ancient traditional teams; both working and defunct.
There were no Anglo concertina players in connection with Rapper (in fact I never saw an anglo either played or even for sale new or secondhand whilst in Newcastle).
The existing teams were Royal Earsdon (at Backworth) who had a fiddle player - Jimmy Mackie, who played a selection of jigs including Blackthorn Stick (A music to step to inbetween the verses of the calling on song) and the rest of the tune when the dancing started, and another 5 tunes including Rolliking Irishman, the Laird of Cockpen. (I will look up the others and list them next week).
The High Spen Sword-dancers had a Melodeon player Tommy Wilkes, he played a number of tunes, one of which I have only heared him play, which consisted almost entirely of press-draw-press, or draw-press-draw, on individual buttons, which could be played very quickly, and could be equally well done on an Anglo.
Inventor
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I've just spotted there is what is described as "Rare Antique C Jeffries" concertina on eBay (sorry I don't know how you go straight there from this site). The pictures show a 45 button instrument and answer to a question suggests that it is a very rare Jeffries Duett not an Anglo. If you want it you'll have to hurry as there are only seven and a half hours left. Most of the Jeffries duetts of this size (a tad over the usual 6") have been converted (very profitably) to Anglos. I hope this one stays in it's original form; the only other Jeffries duett of this size that I have ever seen in it's original form is the one magnificently played by Gavin Atkin.
Inventor.
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If you mean a Hexagonal single reeded instrument; then yes I have a lot of interest. If an inexpensive instrument can be made using the standard Hayden spacing and angles ie 16mm between the centres of buttons along the rows 9mm between one row and the next above - to give an equal spacing of 12mm between the nearest buttons along the diagonal. The rows to slope down at an angle of 10.5 degrees towards the thumbs. Large flat top buttons are preferable (i.e. a minimum of 6mm diameter, 7mm standard accordion bass buttons would be very good). At that sort of price they would compete with the Italian inexpensive instruments, which have the buttons somewhat casually and widely spaced. They should also include Bbs and Ebs at the lower end of all the rows to make it easier to play in Bb, and some Abs to add the key of Eb to the easy to play keys.
Inventor.
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Regards to playing a Hayden concertina. I use several different styles of playing, depending on the type of music that I am playing.
1) The UmPah style as you first mention. The Hayden concertina is particularly easy to play in this manner. I use this style particularly when playing traditional dance music. I find that reversing the bellows on occasions, usually twice in a bar but not on the bar-lines or in the dead centre adds to the danciness
2) Melody on the right hand side with a counter melody on the left hand side. I use this style when playing solo or accompanying a song, (except sea shantys, when I usually use (1) ).
3) A pair of parts in close harmony on RHS with a counter melody with chords sometimes thrown in on the LHS. This seems to have often been used on The Bandoneon proper, but I have never really developed this style beyond the demonstration stage.
4) For classical music I work from the whole score and play as near as possible to the way the original composer played it. Playing the instrument holisticly (as an english-concertina has to play anyway) with the notes distributed to give the best possible fingering.
5) Recently I have been working from Dan Worrals book with all reversals to play Kimber style.
inventor.
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P.S.
The I.C.A. have now published the article referred to I recieved my copy this morning.
Inventor.
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to Mike D, Crane Duet No 14015
Had a closer look at the concertina and see it is in fact a 45 (plus air button) button instrument, very similar to the one on eBay, but six and a quarter across. Have got your note but have no idea how to reply to it directly.
Left hand side (20 buttons) lowest note c (tenor c) to g' . Right hand side (25 buttons) lowest note c' (middle c) to c"' two octaves above.
Bellows scuffed but airtight, closely in tune but a few notes need to be touched up a bit.
I don't need to sell it, and would be unwilling to sell it to a dealer for as little as £750. If any total beginner who came to one of my all systems classes wanted it badly I might part with it. What was this special purpose that you needed a basic instrument for ?
Inventor.
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I didn't mention last week that the amount of time I must have saved when I started playing the left hand, with the chords in the same order as on the Stradella system accordion bass, more than made up for any extra time I might have spent getting complementary fingers to play together in octaves. I had already partly changed a button accordion to Hayden system on the right hand side, but retained the stradella on the left, whilst waiting (around 6 or 7 years) for my first Hayden system to arrive. I see that Rich Morse recently mentioned an interest in Hayden bass on Free Bass accordions.
However it did occur to me (things like this do occur to inventors) that a simple solution to the manufacture of both possibilities in one batch of instruments would be to add another 2 buttons to the bottom row (AAb) and (BBb) below the © and leave out the top db1 but add a c#2 at the other end of the top row. With an equal space at both ends of the reed blocks; then it would be possible to turn over the reed blocks and have both possibilities in the same instrument. If you colour the sharps and flats black (with the naturals white) this will still correspond. Those extra very low Flat notes would be incredably usefull when accompanying Flat keys.
There are another 2 or 3 alterations that might also be needed but I have thought of solutions to these too.
Any idea how much these instruments might cost ?
Inventor.
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I have a 40 button Aluminium ended Crabb Crane duet, which I only use when giving lectures on all types of duett concertinas; and to lend to people who wish to try out the system at all-systems beginners Kilve Weekends.
I might be persuaded to sell it; how much did the concertina that sold recently on eBay make ?
What part of the world do you live in ?
inventor.
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There are very good reasons for running the left hand side with the notes on each row running from left to right on the ascending whole tone scale.
1) When playing an accompaniment in the form of bass notes and chords, for major chords the little finger falls naturally on the root note of the chord an octave lower than the major chord which you are playing with the other 3 fingers. It is also possible (not quite so easy but comes with a little practice) to use the little finger under the root note of the minor chords. This facility makes it possible to play a walking bass entirely on the little finger leaving the other 3 stronger fingers to play all sorts of interesting things not only chords.
If you reverse the fingering you end up having to use the little finger unconveniently high on the higher notes, and using different strong fingers to play a bass part, which can break up the flow of the middle part.
Note: with the very good selection of bass notes proposed this becomes even more important than on a 46 button concertina.
2) The order of chords comes out in the same order as the Stradella Bass (the standard system used on the Piano-accordion, and Continental & British chromatic accordions). Though conveniently concertinered into zigzag form, with the relative minors on top of the major rather consecutive to it. This will give a bass system equivalent to far more than a 72 bass piano accordion in a much more compact space.
3) If the Hayden system is applied to an electronic piano or organ keyboard, the left hand keyboard runs straight into the right; and if an extra keyboard is provided for the thumbs to play (more easily) the equivalent of an organ pedal-board as you move to sharper or flatter keys the thumbs will move with the hands.
The only advantage that might arise from putting a mirror image on the left seems to be if you were playing both hands together an octave apart when the same fingers are used for the same notes. However it takes about a week to train yourself to do this using corresponding leftmost and rightmost fingers etc., and this is the way that all of the common duet concertina systems work, and of course the Piano and organ keyboards.
I have written an article for the ICA magazine where I have mentioned my discussions with Pat Robson the late celebrated Bandoneon player discussing just such an idea, and why I rejected it. If they decide not to publish it the article will appear on the WCCP website.
Inventor.
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I wrote to Geuns about Hayden system concertinas a couple of months ago but had no reply. It is medium quality (i.e. well made action and bellows but using best quality accordion reeds) hexagonal single reeded concertinas that there seems to be a demand for; not the Bandoneon type of instrument.
Some 20 years ago Bastari offered to make Hayden System, Square, Double reeded instruments at a reasonable price; however these were not a commercial sucess.
The Standard Bandoneon (I think it's called Rio Systen) and Chemnitzer, are so well established in both Americas as no doubt Wicci found out a hundred years ago, that there is no demand for any other type.
The ones that I had made were about 8" square and went chromatically down to an F at bottom of Bass Clef (F# & Ab included) on the left hand side, and chromatically up to the e" on 3rd ledger above treble clef on the right hand side; the c#' was included at the lower end of the right hand but not the very usefull g,a,& b.
Bandoneons based on the Continental Chromatic system have been tryed before but you run into problems of width of keyboard, when going more than a couple of octaves on each side. "Accordions of London" have had a very good quality one for over 20 years which has never sold.
Inventor.
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I shall be at Sidmouth again this year. I first went to the Sidmouth in 1956 (yes nineteen fifty-six, - fifty years ago), with an almost unknown musical instrument at that time (there couldn't have been more than a couple of dozen world-wide) - a D/G Melodeon!
The West Country Concertina Players will be holding their usual Morning long sessions from 9.30a.m. at All Saints Church Hall, All Saints Road, (not far from Radway) - Monday to Thursday. All concertina players welcome; any system, including special sessions for beginners.
I will be there at 11a.m. coffee break.
Inventor.
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I was very sorry to hear of Peter Kennedy's death. I first met him together with his mother Helen and father Douglas at EFDSS courses (particularly the Christmas music courses at Chelsea) in the late fifties. He played a Melodeon (25 key Hohner club 11/10/4) in D/G plus a few accidentals. I had just taken up the melodeon at that time and he encouraged my playing. He made a particular point of building up the air pressure before hitting the buttons. His mother Helen Kennedy played an English system 48 button Piccolo Wheatstone Aeola; this instrument passed on to Peter but I don't believe he ever played it. The last time I met him (it must be some 15 to 20 years ago at a Lecture he gave at the Albemarl Centre at Taunton) I mentioned this instrument to him, as I knew somebody who was particularly looking for one; but he was unwilling to part with it for sentimental reasons. He had made many recordings of traditional folk music players in the fifties.
Inventor
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I met Tom Prince whilst I was at King's College Newcastle, in the 50s, he played at that time for the Derwent Valley Morris Men. He held up his English Concertina in his hands, standing up playing very loudly; I was most impressed. I had previously not been impressed with the english concertina, as I had only seen it in the hands of shy women sitting playing softly and not adding much to a band. He also used to teach the Piano-accordion, which I don't think he played; and used to be the Accordion judge at the Northumbrian Pipers Alnwick Gathering every autumn.
I met Harry Dunn on several occasions at WCCP meetings and Halsway Manor weekends. He played a 56 key amboyna ended, gold buttoned, Wheatstone Aeola. It was a treble extended upwards, not a tenor-treble. He was the finest classical English concertina player that I have ever heard. He held the instrument in an unusual way resting the next flat side to the usual on his knee, so that the collums of buttons ran at a 45 degree angle, enabling him to freely use the little fingers on the lower notes, which he did with great virtuosity.
Tom Dukes had at one time played in the South Shields concertina band, where he had been the youngest player. I first met him when he became the Musical Director of WCCP when it first started over 20 years ago. He played the ENGLISH CONCERTINA (capitals deliberate) he hated Anglo and Duet concertinas.
Inventor.
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This might be all right if it is the only concertina that you ever intend to play. However problems will arise when you decide to have a larger instrument later after you have already learned to play those notes in that position. What do you do: continue in an ad hoc manner and end up in a complete random mess like the bandoneon? or have to completely relearn all the tunes that you already play?
I made the mistake of putting a low F# on my square concertina in the bottom left hand corner where the very low Eb should have been in order to make up a complete chromatic compass, because english concertina minded players were always winging about notes missing from the complete chromatic compass at the periferies of the keyboards. I was continually hitting this button when playing in flat keys expecting an Eb but getting a discord, so eventually retuned this. Since that I have never ever found that I needed a very low F# in sharp keys on anything that I wished to accompany, but the Eb often comes in very handy.
The low notes F, G, and Bb fall very conveniently on the left little finger if placed in their correct positions, and can be easily played together with the corresponding note an octave above on the ring finger.
Inventor
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There is a musical instrument patent in Dawkins name. I saw this over twenty years ago but can't remember the details - more imformation next week hopefully.
Inventor.
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There is a musical instrument patent in Dawkins name. I saw this over twenty years ago but can't remember the details - more imformation next week hopefully.
Inventor.
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Someone once told me that it is possible to set up a computer keyboard with specific keys playing specific notes. I didn't have a computer at that time so I never made a note of the program (a shareware program if I remember rightly). Does anyone know of this or how it can be done. It could be ideal for a person who wanted to try out a Hayden or Jeffries Duett system.
Inventor.
P.S. If it can also be used to write music notation directly from the computer keyboard I would personally find that very usefull indeed.
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You just missed an excellent repair workshop in the UK. It was part of the WCCP Kilve concertina weekend at Kilve Somerset, taken by Colin and Rosalie Dipper. Most people attended only one session (of 8 one and a half hour sessions) when Colin and Rosalie took various concertinas that people had brought along for repair. But one young lady by prearrangement with Colin attended all the sessions observing all that he did to other peoples concertinas whilst doing major repairs on a concertina that she had brought along specially to practice on. She continued also whilst he was not at the room set aside for repairs.
There are similar weekends booked for October and next March, imformation from www.wccp.info ,I expect The Dippers will be taking similar workshops.
Inventor.
Hayden Duet With Real Concertina Reeds
in Instrument Construction & Repair
Posted
I did recomend starting with a 65 button model (including the repeated D#/Eb and G#/Ab keys) but 46 is what Wim has decided to make at first. So I would suggest anyone wanting a larger Hayden put their names onto his Hayden list immediately. If sufficient did so perhaps he might start making these first.
Inventor.