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Really excellent website, however is Neil Wayne's Concertina Collection now somewhere other than at the Horniman Museum?
Inventor.
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It's going back many years now, but my late father told me that this episode was inspired by the First Squire of the East Kent Morris Men who was a Bank Manager in Folkstone Kent. My father who worked for a Bank in the City (of London) was a member of the short Lived Medway Morris Men, and used to chat to him about boring Bank things when there were Kent Morrismens' gatherings (Hartley Morrismen also included).
Inventor.
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I have obtained the following imformation from Semley Auctioneers (tel 01747 855122)
Auction Date 17 September at 10.30, viewing on the previous 3 days.
Crabb Serial Number 10021.
The picture in the Blackmoor Vale Magazine clearly shows the right hand side of a Crane System Duet with 31 buttons on it. 6 chevrons plus one extra button at the bottom. My guess is that would be the usual middle C to an F 2.5 octaves above, plus a bonus B below the middle C. This would leave 28 on the Left hand side. My guess is that this is the usual tenor C to the c an octave above middle C, plus a bonus 3 notes below the tenor C. Without a picture of the left hand side I cannot say if this might be A, Bb, B; or G, A, B. perhaps the serial number might give more imformation ?
It is obviously a very high quality instrument, together with the Salvation Army book and the wider compass of notes, suggests that it was made specially for a Salvation Army virtuoso musician. I think that the Auction Estimate of £1,500 vastly underestimates the true value of this instrument.
Inventor.
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Concertinas with chord buttons are quite rare, however you should look at Hayden System Duet concertinas.
These are set up in a regular harmonic fashion.
Major chords are like this:
. ( - ) . ( 5 ) . ( - )
..... ( R ) . ( - ) . ( 3 )
Minor chords are like this:
. (m3 ) . ( - ) . ( 5 )
.........( - ) . ( R ) . ( - )
On both of these you can see that the Root note and the 5th can be played with only one finger, so many Major or Minor chords can be played with only two fingers.
Once you have learned these two patterns You will be able to play many different Major and Minor chords on this type of concertina. In addition these patterns are in the harmonic cycle, like on an accordion stradella bass, but "concertinered" into half the width. Other chords have regular repeating patterns.
Inventor.
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I agree with all that has been said about Replacing/retuning and voicing the reeds. However with regard to replacing the buttons: why not ? I use 6mm flat top buttons on my concertina, it doesn't half make a difference to the playability of the instrument. Two finger reitterations are so much easier; as is double pegging (one finger playing two buttons at the same time) to play fourths or fifths. You could also enlarge the holes and bush them properly, and felt the join to the action levers at the same time. In an earlier thread Wim Wakker pointed out that if he had this done as standard it would considerably up the very reasonable price of these instruments, but if you do it yourself for your own instrument that wouldn't be a consideration.
Charlie Marshall (CGM Musical services) does all sorts of buttons for Accordion basses, perhaps you might modify some to suit yourself.
Inventor.
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I have heard several very good reports regarding the prototype Button Box Hybrid Hayden. However I am very well aware that Button Box had to make many hard commercial decisions after the tragic death of Rich Morse.
I was always trying to persuade Rich Morse to get an accordion reeded Hayden up and running before he attempted to go for a traditional reeded instrument; being most impressed with the quality and sheer lightness in the hand of their accordion reeded English and Anglo concertinas. Rich was however adamant that when Button Box made Hayden duets that they were to be traditionaly reeded instruments.
Remember that Button Box's main business is retailing Folk Music instruments especially Melodeons from around the World, and they are very good at that; concertina making is just a sideline which I suspect may be subsidized by the Main Shop.
Wim Wakker (Concertina Connection) on the other hand is a dedicated concertina maker, he seems to get things up and running in double quick time. I look forward to seeing his Accordion reeded Hayden Duets, especially if he also does a Do-It-Yourself kit as on the Clover Anglos.
Coming back to the original question of Elise and Stagi concertinas. A couple of years ago I played an Elise on the "Music Room" stall at the Sidmouth Festival; and was most impressed with the instrument especially at the price it was selling at. Upgrading from that I would reccomend going for a Tedrow instrument or waiting for a Wakker or Button box hybrid, hopefully in a years time.
Inventor.
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As Anglo-concertinas (along with Melodeons, Bandoneons, and Chemnitzers) are BISONoric instruments; I think we must expect a STAMPEDE !!!
Inventor.
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Nevertheless I would like to point out that on Hayden Duets because of the consistant proximity of 4ths and 5ths in adjacent rows of buttons, it is possible to play any Major or Minor chord with only two fingers. So if you play a double chord with 4 fingers on the left hand and a double chord with 4 fingers on the right hand you can play 4 octave chords on a Hayden Duet. This is also possible for some chords on both the Maccann & Crane Duets.
Personally I do not chose to do this myself as it does not suit the type of music that I like playing; however I have sometimes ended a performance with a 7 note chord playing 3 buttons with my right hand forefinger !
Inventor.
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Lintons 2 daughters also played them so there must have been at least 3 instruments, and I seem to remember seeing a picture of him and his daughters with a pile of 4 or 5. He was said to be a brilliant musician playing Wagner with loads of heavy chords in several octaves; and claimed to be able to outplay any Duett Concertina player. As you say it is not a Duet system, but rather a split octave system like the English Concertina. I believe there were other people who attempted to play the Linton System, but this might have been on instruments that had previously belonged to the Linton family.
Inventor.
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In direct answer to your question "Can you play melody and chords on an English"; the answer is yes you can. However in over 40 years of meeting hundreds of English Concertina players I have met less than a dozen who did. Many of these, who I regret are now dead were Classical Music players and came from a generation who expected to work hard at music (or anything else for that matter). However one fine example of English Concertina playing with full chordal accompaniment is Rollo Woods, who learned this style from a celebrated Anglo Concertina player William Kimber of Headington. Yes it's possible but difficult.
You should look at an "Elise" at Button Box which is made by the same maker as the "Jackie" and costs about the same price. You will find that chords which use only a few simple patterns on the left hand side are in the same order as they occur on an Accordion Stradella bass,but "concertinered" into half the width.
Inventor.
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I have heard several Elises both live and on the internet, and have been surprised at how good the sound is. Wim Wakker has gone to great lengths to produce a very good, useful product for an amazingly reasonable price.
User Improvements:-
1)The action is OK (especially at the price they sell for new); but I feel it could be much improved if the buttons were replaced with standard concertina buttons, and felt bushed into the ends.
2)Elises at 7" are quite large by concertina standards, and I feel that there is sufficient space around the edges to take a few more notes, to take it up to 44 buttons. This would not only add another couple of "easy-peasy" keys but would also make the instrument more or less chromatic. You would have to add individual tone chambers flat on the deck for each button added. I am well aware that this would not be a cost effective thing for a concertina manufacturer to do, if they wished to keep the price down.
3)The sound of accordion reeded concertinas is considerably improved if the reed plates are laid out parallel to the ends rather than at right angles to the ends. However this would involve a complete rebuild of the whole instrument, and do not recommend it for an Elise.
4)I don't think that it is a good idea to change the accordion reed plates for traditional individual concertina reeds. Concertina reeds cost the earth compared even to "hand made" Accordion reed-plates!
Wishing you the very best of luck with your project, let us know how it works out.
Inventor.
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Hi Ray - welcome aboard.
I have been playing the same system concertina as you now have, and it has given me great pleasure for the last 35 or so years. For security reasons like Peter T, I don't publish where I live; but perhaps you may not live too far away.
Inventor.
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The 1930s depression did bring out a bit of a revival of Rapper dancing in the North-east, with a number of teams including for instance Prudhoe, and Mickley who weren't around in Cecil Sharp's collecting days. It was a case of anything you could do for a few pennies to buy food to keep your family from starvation!
Fred Foster from High Spen Rapper told us of how they danced all the way down to London, and being very well received and accomodated by EFDSS groups. They made very much more than they could have made "doon the pit".
Inventor.
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I was at King's College Newcastle 1958-62, and an enthusiastic member of the Morris Dance Club. During my time there the Squire, Bill Cassie (Professor of Civil Engineering) brought along the Musician who had played for the Westerhope rapper dancers, with his English-concertina. I don't remember his name but I guess it was the musician named above. At that time we performed the North Wallbottle dance with the Tommy and Bessie joining in at the end. The Westerhope dance differed slightly from the N-W dance, in particular a spare dancer joined in at the end not the T & B. This musician no longer played, and presented his instrument to Bill Cassie.
Inventor.
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I regret I have no means of adding a comment on U tube but to seeing a clip of a Hayden Concertina being played in Jabberwokistan what can I say but "Twas Brillig"
Inventor.
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Ah, that's better
- I wonder how many other people here were just putting up with it?It didnt work
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:an
gry:
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Congratulations to Wim for producing a very affordable beginners Hayden Concertina. For an inventor this is about the highest compliment that can be made; (and P.S. country to popular belief I don't make a penny out of it), that his idea is being produced by the hundred on the other side of the world. (O.K. two batches of 50 this year). I understand that most of the first batch of 50 is already spoken for.
I too hoped that Wim could include the top Bs on both sides; however he has managed to shoehorn an extra 2 buttons more than the Jackies & Rochelles, on each side, any more would have meant that these could not have been made so cheaply on the existing machines.
Regards Harmonic Minors: It is also possible to play (using a slightly modifyed fingering) B harmonic minor - B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A# (i.e. Bb), b. Mastering this fingering of this HM key will take you along way towards mastering all the fingerings that you need to play all the Harmonic minors on the 65 button instrument. (You only need one other fingering which I have described in an earlier reply, to play all but one very obscure Harmonic Minor key).
Wim also pointed out to me that the Elise shouldn't only be regarded as just a beginners instrument, but for a large number of people (as has happened with his Jackies and Rochelles) this will be the only concertina that many will posess and play for the rest of their lives; and certainly don't wish to go through years of learning that the Maccann requires before they can even play their favourite tunes with an easy accompaniment.
For the benifit of Dirge a little history lesson about Maccans:
Very early on in concertina history 1830s (might have been 1840s) a very early Duett type concertina appeared which had a basic proto-maccann arrangement of notes. They had a small rectangular shape (almost square) and are believed to have been made in Germany. They could only be played in a couple of keys (C & G). They were sold I believe through Wheatstones who also sold a basic tutor to go with them. A few still exist and you can find the tutor on the "Maccann Website". Although Charles & William Wheatstone, and others proposed other types of Duett; it wasn't until nearly 40 years later (1885) that Maccann proposed a new Duett. It is somewhat debateable exactly what Maccann was suggesting in his provisional Patent; however when the instruments were finally made these proved to be the same arrangements as the Rectangular German instruments with Sharps and flats added in the most obvious places, and a few high notes added on the right hand side (an octave above on the next but one row above) and a few low notes added on the LHS (an octave below on the next but one row below). They still started rather high on the RHS (g') . It wasn't until after the Butterworth (Crane -Triumph) concertina came out ten years later that the Maccanns started to begin the RHS on middle C (c'). and later still that much larger sizes of Maccann were made. Almost a Hundred year span; so as you can see it all takes time to work through.
I expect as someone else has pointed out demand is going to cause supply; perhaps some enterprising person might consider rebuilding larger MaccanDuetts which nobody wants, (and makes them so inexpensive) as Hayden Duets! Crabbs did this to Maccanns to Cranes about 50 years ago when that was the demand.
Inventor.
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If you are in the UK you can get Accordion wax from Charlie Marshall (CGM Musical Services PO Box 21676 Falkirk FK1 9AS) in Scotland <elchico47@hotmail.com>, I am sure he is still in business as he frequently goes on eBay selling all sorts of interesting bits from Melodeons and Accordions.
About 3 years ago sticks or blocks of Accordion Wax cost about £4 or £5. It really isn't worth trying to make your own. Some 50 years ago I used pure beeswax to attach reed plates that I had moved around in a Melodeon which worked all right until a very hot day on a Morris tour, these started to fall off!
Inventor.
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I was absolutely deverstated to hear the terrible news about Rich Morse's sudden untimely death.
I first met him many years ago when he was on a Morris tour of England, and he saw someone playing the 2nd ever Hayden Duet (the first from the very first batch of Wheatstone 46 button Hayden Duets). He immediately ordered one from that same batch, and was a champion for the Hayden duet ever since.
Some years later (it must be about 15 to 20 years ago now) he stayed along with Doug and Danna at my home, to discuss the making of Morse Haydens. We corresponded many times since about these, and it is with deep regret that these never finally materialised during his life time.
He will be a great loss to the whole concertina world. I have lost a very good friend and, am crying as I write these words!
Brian.
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I am very glad to hear that this instrument found a good home. I would think almost certainly Helen Kennedy bought this instrument new in 1931. My late father used to run Folk dances in the Medway Towns in the 50s & 60s and had a good sized collection of Folk (American, English, Scottish, Irish, & Balkan) Music records, almost all on 78 rpms; I still have them somewhere, in my rambling house. I have no means of turning these into CDs or sending them over the internet at present, there are probably copyright implications of this anyway.
I remember that all the musicians in the Jolly Waggoners Band are listed including Helen Kennedy. None are of her playing solo. In the late 50s I used to go to the EFDSS music sessions on the week after Christmas at Chelsea College London taken by Douglas Kennedy (drum); she was always there, and very occasionly I heard her play solo, however I doubt if she ever recorded solo; but if she did they must be in the Peter Kennedy archive collection, which brings me back to my question - What happened to the Peter Kennedy archive ? Did it go to the Vaughn Williams Library at Cecil Sharp House ?
Inventor.
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Helen Kennedy (Wife of former EFDSS Director Douglas Kennedy) played an Aeola English Piccolo in the "Jolly Waggoners Band" back in the 1950s, you can pick out her playing if you listen carefully to any of the many recordings they made. This concertina went to her son the Ethnomusicologist and folk music collector Peter Kennedy; he still had it when I ran into him a few years back, but never played it (he played a D/G club melodeon). Peter died a couple or so years ago; I have no idea what happened to the piccolo-aeola. Peter also had a massive collection of recordings of traditional music (mostly English and Irish) including a number of concertina players; does anyone know what happened to this collection?
Inventor.
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What I was meaning was that as the d#" on the 46 Wheatstone has on a very short action and goes out almost directly to the RHS I thought it might be very difficult to get a Morse link from LHS eb" to this, and it might be easier to simply have a pair of reeds for each of these notes, and amalganating the 2 unused narrow spaces might enable this to be done more easily. However if you are designing from scratch, rather than modyfying an existing design, this shouldn't be any problem.
Regards a 34 Chinese: I would definitely reccomend going for middle c' to b" with f#', c#", & f#" on the right hand side; (LHS tenor c to b' with f#, c#' & f#'). Those small Maccans which start on the higher g" on the right and have a missing tenor d on the left are definitely wrong, no matter how cheap they may be; people continually turn up to my beginners duett classes with them, and I am constantly telling them that if they like the Maccan system to get a 57 button instrument (not even a 56 Maccan) as soon as possible.
I didn't like the name "Pheobe" at all, I see Duetts as Male instruments, along with English style Anglos, and "Pheobe" has backward looking associations to the 1940s. English system trebbles are femail (Jackie very sensible) and English Baritones are Male (Jack excellent); Irish anglos are of course femail (I understand that the Irish name for a concertina, which I can't remember off hand translates as "Mrs Accordion"). I am not quite sure where the name Rochelle comes from. Personally I would prefer the name RYAN, for a Chinese Hayden system duet, what do other people think?
Inventor.
Jeffries for sale - Canada
in Buy & Sell
Posted
There is a saying in the Antiques Trade that "the first profit is the best profit" !
Jeffries Anglo Concertinas in any condition are like gold dust, but a premium price is most likely to be paid by a player in the Republic of Ireland or a collector/dealer in the UK.
Either way they will have to pay Duty and V.A.T. on their purchase, (between 25% & 40%). If it is restored in Canada (and I could reccomend a highly reputable one in Canada, and several in the USA); they will effectively be paying extra tax on the cost of restoration as well as the cost of the instrument; which would affect the maximum price a bidder was willing to pay.
Put it on international eBay as it is, preferably with internal photographs to show that there are no important bits missing, and with the note that a Canadian restorer has quoted $2500 for restoration.
I would endorse everything that Theo has said above, good luck,
Inventor.