Robin Harrison

Do you want to try that pic. again,Richard.

Missed !

Just a picture of my 45 key Jeffries to show others what we're talking about. Robin

Interesting....................a chemnitzer ?

Nobody else has replied,Panccito,so I will. In a nutshell..there isn't one (as far as I know,) but plenty oF books. Robin

Rather than creep someones thread,I thought I'd start a new topic. In the thread "Button Damage",it was suggested that the semi-circular dents you often see on older concertinas could be caused by finger nails or finger pads hitting the metal. I wonder if its not the actual fingers hitting the end-plate but the sweat that is carried on the fingers.It is said that different people have a different sweat composition and some is more acidic. I don't know if this is true or if indeed there are any studies done on this.From personal experience I've seen it....both my offspring play violin and my daughter flies through strings ( that change colour where her fingers hit and then unravel) whilst my sons never change colour and never unravel.Apparently violin teachers will tell you this is common.Of course it doesn't prove its the sweat. Does this ever happen on wooden ended concertinas. I've included a pic...interestingly what it shows , I think, is that the plating as well as the end plate itself has been eroded......if you look just in from the little finger rest, the fret-work has actually separated.....BUT.....the three screws (which I assume are original) holding the rest don't seem to have any of this erosion and they are not plated but just ordinary steel wood-screws. Does steel not react....... ?? Any information out there? Regards Robin ( not the other Robin)

.....this problem you have is also one I experience..........maybe this should be in the Ergonomics section because it relates to hand bars again....... If I have the straps tight to support the instrument, my fingers naturally fall on the outer row of accidentals with the fingers about 90 degrees to the palm and stricking through the long axis of the button ; if I move to the C row, they are slightly cranked in; but play on the G row ( or D row on a G\D) and the fingers are actually pushing sideways on the top of the button so the button tends to stall against the bushing,as the fingers move toward the palm of the hand. I have large (ish) hands and long fingers so I think custom made hand bars ,if they were taller and further away from the buttons , would bring the angle the fingers make with the button closer to the 90 degrees . Jeff H.....do this problem occur on all the anglos you play or just the one ? ie is it the instrument or the size of your hands Regards Robin

Jim....my C/G anglo has 4mm buttons...G/D has 5mm buttons and Colin Dipper , on his order sheet , gives 6.5 as the largest size ( I'm sure he could make larger ones) As I practised both concertinas today , I realized that I practice sitting down and play for Morris (of course) standing up and this led me to analize more closely what is happening. As you sit and play , the bulk of the weight is taken not on the wrist straps but on your knee.As I see it, the straps are positioning your hands (either loosely or firmly depending on preference,style etc) over the buttons. When you stand , and gravity kicks in , the instrument rotates downward until the whole weight is taken on the wrist straps . Its instructive to do this and see where your fingers end up positioned. With me , on the C/G , my fingers relatively move up one complete button. Thus when sitting , my third finger is on C (where you want it).....as I stand my little finger ends up on C. Effectively the instrument has moved down by one button. So my problem is that I'm trying to jack the concertina back up so my fingers are in the right place ......third finger on C .... ie I'm supporting the weight of the anglo on the buttons and it hurts like heck. A solution,and I may be able to do this on my new anglo, would be to rotate the hand bars around until your fingers are over the buttons you want , when you are standing , and then affix them permenantly. Does anyone else share this problem...........If you watch many Morris anglo players they support the weight on their knee, over their head so the concertina is vertically above the wrist, foot on box etc..............all maneuvres to get around this vexing problem. Makes you wonder if the anglo was ever meant to be played standing up. Regards Robin

......Good idea.....I'm there. Robin Can we leave this subject on 99 postings ?? Have we ever got this high before ? Is it a coincidence that the worlds greatest ice hockey player,Wayne Gretsky, comes from Brantford Ontario,which is where this post is coming from and his shirt was #99.....Makes you think doesn't it !!

I have wanted to make an obsevation about my experience with button size but didn't want to get caught in the cross-fire !! I play anglo for Morris dancing. I tried to use my to use my C\G Jeffries but its got those tiny buttons and is heavy as all hell (mine is identical to the left hand Jeffries in the Photo gallery...44 buttons and raised ends) After one tune ,I've got heavy indentations on all my fingers and the indentations are dark blue! I can manage maybe one dance per half hour. I now use my G\D Jeffries...a "standard" type (similar to the centre anglo in the Photo Gallery).The problem is improved with the lighter weight and the larger buttons but still it hurts.Also at times the dancers can't hear it that well with it being keyed lower....traffic etc. This year ,after almost 5years,I hope to get my Dipper.We've specified WIDE buttons (Lignum Vitae). My observations lead me to believe that not only do the wrist straps (obviously) take a proportion of the weight (so Goran's additional hand support look sensible) but also the buttons take a lot more more of the load than one would suspect. I'm looking forward to an anglo that is lighter and has broad buttons.I'll also try to get raised ,shaped hand bars and finally arrange the left hand buttons so my little finger does not need to play a button but supports the instrument.....I find this also to be a tremendous help when standing.I've thought of a neck strap too,but when you're playing for dancing , you move around too much. My guess is that for Irish players ( those with "lightening speed" as Frank puts it ) they probably do not support the instrument at all with the buttons. Regards Robin

Howard,does this Concertina play...if so.how does it sound ? Robin

Alex ,I have a similar problm on my Jeffries G/D anglo .The lowest note I play with my left pinky was so slow ,I took the end off and had a look.It was slow because there is a lump of lead on the end of the reed......On this one note,I've found I play it a little ahead of when i need it and it comes in on time. I find my G/D is a slower instrument than my C/G( both Jeffries) and I have assumed this is because the reeds are longer. Robin

The HOURS I spent tryingt learn a tough part of a tune!!! The written note accelerates me through that laborious process and allows me more time to play and not labour.It's taken me 5yrs or so to be able to read music well enough to get the sense of a tune by playing it through a couple or three times.Its a profound joy to me now to be able to play through a tune book and pick stuff I like. regards Robin

Phew....just finished doing the Christmas decorations...see photo. Really pulls the room together. Merry Christmas everyone. Robin

........The Skye Collection...marketed in Ontario by P.Cranford Collection of Strathspeys reels,Marches etc Composed by Alexander Walker Violin Music of Cape Breton...Dunlay\Greenberg Fiddle music of PEI......Mel Bay Beauties of the North....Bill Hardie Caledonian Companion...Alistair Hardie Highland Tunes for the Fiddle....Ceol Na Fidhle Vols 1-4 and finally a book of new tunes that has been ,I think , advertised here on C.net.,written in the Scottish styleby Matt Heumann for the English Concertina (among others) The Braeburn Collection All these are FULL of wonderful tunes Regards Robin

re. S\M Does anyone else remeber the E-bay sale of four Matusowitch English concertinas maybe four years ago ? They were part of an estate sale in Florida. They were made for him (the family\school) and none had the S\M stamp. Two stood out .One was a tortoishell Aeola from the fifties;bought by the Button Box ( but apparently a dog) and the other was also a tortoishell ended,gold buttoned,red-bellowed Aeola 56 key from the classic period. I would guess if they were made for him he would have the S\M on these instruments . (By way of diversion [or thread creep if you like]............I remember these quite well as I was going to bid on the old Aeola.I phoned lots of people and eventually decided not bid,but what was interesting was that the seller described the end plates as "some plastic type material" .............anybody in the "know" could see they were tortoiseshell.Turns out he was hoping for an overseas sale and was conversant with the then CITES Convention and the prohibition of end-dangered species.) Regards Robin

Agreed.....I would also call my index finger my First finger......labelling it "2" would be odd. Robin

Craig,I too ,would be very interested. BTW....do you have the Concertina and Squeeze box article that Paul G. mentioned ? If not, I've got an old photocopy I could photocopy for you Regards Robin

I can see why people like to use them, but I like posts that read like letters.....old fashioned , I know, but good prose is always easier to read and stimulates you to respond in kind.Postings without quotes seem to me to be well crafted rather than just fired off out.Thought has gone into HOW to reply as well as WHAT to reply. There is no question that the quote-duels we sometimes see can appear to be intimidating....time was when I would not dare to ask /answer a particular person for fear of being "quoted " into submission!!! What does the Concertina diaspora think ? Regards Robin Also I can't use the damn'd quote button anyway.!!

Quote....When I see my statements and opinions torn apart....Unquote Frank....I think Jim was just courteousely (and respectfully) debating you point for point.I found it one of the most interesting discussions we've recently had...... Hey ...don't worry about being cranky.I've been like that for the past week and will have to buy beer for all my Morris mates!! Remember the old saying ...." I only get to go places twice.....and the second time is to apologise !!" Yours is a voice we want to hear. Kind Regards Robin PS....I'm just about to post a question about quotes.

Yep..I play both too. I've never found ANY confusion between the two.Where I get confused is trying to relearn tunes on the melodeon where I've learnt them one way and I'm trying to re-learn them with different fingering for a different bass..I find that REALLY difficult !! I said earlier in the week ,in the duet post,that I think my anglo playing has improved because I was playing another instrument (a duet). However, my suspicion is that I would be a much better player if I had stuck to one instrument.........its just that life is too short not to try every kind of concertina. Regards Robin

So in fact what Wheatstone called "rails" we would call "hand-bars" Thus ,the Salvation Army client aksed for an Aeola with hand-bars/rails and duet straps(but are these different from anglo straps ?) and the next owner had them removed and typical English thumb and pinky attachments added.It really is such a beautifully done job,one wonders if the Wheatstone people did it.Are there ledgers that record anything other than sales ? The red-herring was assuming that what we saw on the concertina were rails. Regards Robin

Somebody will know more about this than I,but should the typical black ended Wheatstone be called EBONIZED,not ebony-ended.It a type of French polish finish ,not a veneer ? Robin

Clive...I started (and still am) a melodeon guy but play english and anglo.Also for many years I had a 67(?) key McCann edeophone and played it sporadically because it seems such a sensible system...fingers right where they need to be. But then maybe five years ago I met Dave Barnert ( who in turn had met Rich Morse!!!....)at a London(Ontario)Ale,fell in love with his Hayden and by a coincidence that is unlikely to repeat itself,the Button Box had two Dickinson (Wheatstone)Haydens( from the mid-late 90's)and I got one.I tried hard to play it but realized that given the time I had then I wasn't going to progress very fast.I sold it after 18 months but it gave me an insight into anglo playing........if you look at the anglo like a duet player does his concertina , there are quite a lot of duet things you can do on the anglo.If you approach the anglo ,like I did ,from the melodeon perspective of note /chord/note chord etc there's not so much there. So now when I play anglo for Morris (no cross row stuff) I think ... tune--right hand --chords left hand --but try be much more creative....It's also improved my melodeon playing. So my input would be...if you are a "dedicated anglo man".....stay with what you know and can do and approach the anglo differently i.e. spend a lot of time practising playing tunes in unison;this helps you learn where the notes are on the left hand so you can start to to play harmony parts(NOT in unison). If you want ot try a different system as well as the anglo.....do it,it's a blast ! But how much time have you got ? Regards Robin

Peter,as I said in the initial post, that is exactly what I thought BUT Paul and I had five english concertinas between us and all of them had wear and none of it was in the place where the rails are. I'm seeing him tomorrow pm and hope to take some focused pics.His digital camera was made shortly after the concertina was !! It's lost it's moxy. I think the duet /Salvation Army is the lead. Regards Robin