Hooves

No, its called using your mind to approach the same thing in more than one way, if you interpret thinking as painful, then I suppose for you it is masochistic. The real point is, you have 12 notes: you could make 100's of scales with the use of those 12 notes, For playing, all that matters is you know what note to play and when. For composition, you stated you had no use of music theory, so why do you bother learning any pattterns at all? Thats what most of what music theory is, explaining patterns of notes. I think virtually all melodic music has a scale base, but modern music departs from that base scale frequently, chromatic passages, major subsituitions, descending/ascending minor, but then again you have no use of music theory let alone jazz theory. For improvisation, I come from a guitar/mandolin background, transposing is not a major issue on guitar, its like the Janko in that you can shift up or down frets to transpose, the same pattern works in multiple spots - that is an advantage, but it helps alot in improvisation to know many ways to play the same type of scale. So though I think its neat that the janko keyboard allows you to play major scale the same way, you are still not learning just one pattern, unless you really believe all music can be expressed through the Major scale: 7 modes = 7 patterns (still much less than the standard piano at 84) now start adding up all the scales when you get to Pentatonic, Hexatonic, even with the Jako, you are memmorizing a whole lot of patterns. and of course lets not forget the piano masters - Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Beethoven, Les Reed, Scott Joplin - the list goes on and on......gee I wonder why?

Perhaps for those of us in california, just flying out of state may be the cheapest option when its a week long event. I wanted to go the zook fest last eyar, but it required flying out to it, so I didn't go do to work schedule plus I didn't really feel like the hassle of flying. With fuel prices up, those of us lucky enough to have such camps within driving distance should take advantage of them. My "Music Camp" is just going to shows, sitting quietly, listening and watching very intently. I believe 90% of learning is just watching.

I wonder though if there isn't an advantage in the 24 patterns: what I mean is, having to study 24 different ways of making a scale, doesn't that force your mind to think in other ways? to address new patterns or create new patterns just by the fact you are forced to learn more than one sequence? I'm only wondering that because although i studied piano briefly, my only real keyboard instrument is the concertina, in my case 2 duet systems, which I have come to realize suffers the same pitfall as the standard piano - each scale is a different pattern. I think one could argue there actaully is an advantage to each scale beign different, in the sense that it makes you think about patterns more broadly. And further, its more than 24 if you play modally: 7 modes per Key = 84 patterns; and if we add in our pentatonics, cultural scales, dominants scales, ascending/descedning minor, doesn't that equate to a whole bunch more than 24? Then the clencher for me is when we start gettign chromatic, and we are movingn in and out of each "key" - will these compact systems really show an advantage over the current system?

Its an interesting layout, I found this page with some information on the system (which I had never heard of till I read this thread). http://www.red-bean.com/~noel/uniform-keyboard/ According to this article, you could have only 2 rows, but you would need to learn 2 patterns instead of 1. I'm just taking that on face value as I have no expierence with this system at all. Guess the next thing to do is look for a MIDI controller configured this way, or build one.

I have both my boxes in gig bags right now, mine are both well padded (forget the brands offhand, each is different). I can see why you might want the heavier cases, I may build my own at some point, but one of my boxes did not come with one and the other had a really junky falling apart case. I choose to get a gig bag for a recently re-tuned box becuase I liked the other gig bag, it forces me to be more careful as I know its not a hard shell - if you have a cruddy hard case, it might give you a false sense of security. I remember a while back there was a lengthy discussion on keeping it in the case or not, I think I'll review that thread on what people thought about keeping it in the gig bag.

Sort of like what one does with the pedals on a concert harp? Or even the levers on a lever harp (I wrote Celtic harp before, but it looks liek thier really isa 'lever harp', having leevrs across the top to change tuning) But, I have gone off subject yet again, I deleted my earlier info as I realized I was hijacking the thread. Sorry about that!

Oh Oh - I agree with Jim, what is the world coming too... When I switched to usign alternate tunings on my guitar, my playing has expanded expotentially - I'm playign stuff now I never thought I could, all because I now almost exclusively play in alternate tunings. However I think whats really at issue is that elusive beast "the best system", which like many a bedraggled questing Knight has discovered, will never be skewered and mounted on a trophy wall. Now what I want to see is a keyboard with infinite button possibilities, I have seen some devices where its just patches and areas you use your fingers on, and you can define what each area does - thats the ticket! Then, you can change your "button" arrangement however you want, even between songs, or maybe even during songs! But perhaps thats a bit extreme - too much automation relegates the performer to a mixer rather than a player. ---------- I edited some of the content as I realized I was way off subject, sorry about that!

I think that cost is what i would expect for 4 days in California ata musical festival: I go to the Sebestopol Celtic festival - it costs 120$ for 2.5 days (for the cheap seats), no room or board though parking is free. The Healdsburg guitar festival I believe is 1500$ for 1 week, no room or board, don't know about parking. Some music camps provide dorm style rooms, never been to one though a former co-worker would go to a fiddle camp where they stayed in dorms for a week. 450$ for 4 days sounds appropriate in california, as stated, this is CALIFORNIA ain't nothing cheap but dirty looks and 4 letter words... Though I wouldn't want to camp for four days ina tent - if its at a KOA camp at least you will have showers and bathrooms.

Thanks for the additional resources. I looked into max range for RFID chips, and varies quite a bit, some up to 10's of meters. Fortunately, none of my equipment has been hot fingered, although I dred the day it happens. I wouldn't be surprised if RFID serial numbers become the standard, installed in all new equipment. I plan to use them in the Mandolins I will be making.

I have heard one too many stories of our fine boxes being pilfered by unscrupulous vagrants, thier foul fingers should be crazy glued to the comode and ever flushed upon thier insidious brow. For thieves I have little sympathy and horse thieves were once hanged in high ceremony, saddly this tradition has left us, but the sentiment remains for anybody ever robbed. There is a company called "Snagg!" which is producing RFID chips for inclusion in guitars/basses, seems only appropriate they go into our precious boxes as well. Stew-mac is now carrying the chips and a prciey scanner, would be worth lookign into to at least to help recover your Wheatstone or Jeffries (that little serial number tag comes off quite easily, though asmall chip could be hidden well). http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Accessories/Se..._Microchip.html

Sounds like a job for Mr. Hayden himself, whom I beleive is a member of this vary forum. The Sister site Concertina.com also ahs some info on the Hayden duet i believe, but I have not gone very far intot he hayden system myself, though the concept behind the Hayden system seems well devised, seeing as Mr. Hayden studied all known main-stream duet systems.

I think of this too, and I am amateur with no desire to be a "working musician" for me its compleetly just for fun. A lot of music I listen to , Jazz and Blues, Improvisation is a key element, and even the best of the best have "Off Nights", though quite often thier "off night" is far better than your "best Night", thats why they are the highlighters and you are there to watch them, and hopefully eb amazed. Pros make mistakes too, but they hide them well, and I find audiences presented with a live performer are often more forgiving then you might expect (unless of course the player truly is an amateur). Even open mike amateurs get a round of applause, and it takes far more courage to get up behind that mic than most peopel will care to admit. Just last night I had the pleasure to see Adrian Legg the famous guitar player: I got front row, dead center, he must have been a only 6 ft away. Fantastic learning oppurtunity, and some fine music to boot. Quite a friendly chap, with opinions and mind of his own, truly an artist. So I imagine the working musician, who plays more in one week than you or I in 3 months, has got most of his tunes nailed down, and can lose him/her self in that moment we all want to be part of - when the songs seperate from the mechanical nature of digits and frets, buttons and stomping, and we are transformed, forever changed, etched into the curvature of the universe.

hey Jody, let see a clip of you playing and making Dancing Henry do his thing.

Brilliant! Sorry (almost). I couldn't resist the pun. If there were no resistance involved in illumination, it wouldn't be so brilliant (just a roundabout way of saying V=IR). Oh there you go dragging poor Dr. Ohm into it... at least I think he was a doctor, a quack in the very least.

Ha! definitely a skill to develop. I'm awaiting my Bodhran, and yes, the Pipe and Tabor was exactly what I had in mind, though I have considered using a stringed instrument as well, like a mini-koto or Nordic lyre. I will definitley post my results as soon as I have them. I was hoping some of the more skilled players would volunteer up a show. I have also considered rigging up one of those bicycle brake tethers with a device to push the skin so as to change pitch (kind of like the controls on a tymphany drum).

I have both a 46 key MacCaan and a 48 key Crane, both Lachenal. in terms of actual size, the 48 key is 1/4" larger across the flats than the Macaan, its noticeble, but hardly effects playing. Its also a tad heavier, which makes sense due to the extra notes and size). Neither box has an air button. My feeling is that both systems are good, though I focus now on my Crane as its a Barlycorn special, fully restored, and my Macaan is badly in need of valves (though my right side works great). I'm having it restored by a pro restorer and will get back to it as I still want to play on it despite having my Crane. The 46 key MacCaan lacks a low D, and has an amusingly awkward palcement of Eb, other than that I think its a fine system. Howver, if I could go back in time, and could only choose one box, I surely would choose the Crane. BUT, I do like the MacCaan system: I come from a guitar/mandolin background and the zig-zagging scales of the MacCaan system remind me alot of playing on a guitar. On the other hand, the consistent 4ths arrangement of the Crane layout also reminds me of my guitar - straight up the middle row is EADG.. which is just like standard guitar tuning (at least for a little while as it keeps going up in 4ths). One last note (cough...) when your playing and you make a mistake on the Crane, such as hitting an extra button, it can be a note that fits in, that is, if I play a C and accidentally hit the G right below it, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as the squawking Eb which triumphantly announces your clumsiness on the MaCaan.

Oh Blarney Stone! Oh well, I'll have to check that out, actaully I'm not surprised, however I will still give it a go, albeit minus the cymbal.

Take a look at this I'm somewhere between amazed and offended - that was great. Just goes to show how much you can get with just a few buttons. Neat stuff.

Good concertina friends, some some months ago we had an engaging discussion of the Bisonoric Anglo Duet, or BAD concertina, somewhere between jest and innovation. (I will add link to actaul thread here when I find it). The thought came up of playing a single end independent of the other, to which I suggested a half-tina strapped to each leg. I would like to issue a challange to you Concertina wizards, with digits o'flaming, to develop a style called "On the Knee" playing, by which I mean, strap one end of your tina to your leg, and play the other end freely. The goal is to play a melody, chordal accompiament, to your other hand utilizing a small bodhran or other frame drum thus providng rhythmic accompiament to your floundering tina hand. I am in the prcoess of getting a 12" Bodhran for this purpose, I suggest it now as I know so many of you can run circles around me, I would like to see in action one of you great concertina players play the bodhran and tina at the same time. I think a duet would work well, but the anglo may be the winner (not sure about the English, but feel free to try, I'm easily impressed). I will submit my own fumbling attempt after seeing the masters have a go. all in fun, no prize other than "Hmpph, I showed that Loud mouth Hoove's...)

Looks interesting, although I'm a big supporter of acoustic music (non-synthesized/sampled) I think it would be a nice little device to play around with. I'm always thinking of tools for live solo playing, I had even contemplated a one handed/ended concertina (thanks to the BAD concertina thread), but a MIDI based controller would still be useful, and may actaully provide more textures for a modern audience. I'm thinking more of an analog type sound, though I thought the horn demos were pretty good. I think the joy stick controllers on the side are a good idea. I saw in the video him shaking it, motion sensors would be great for adding musical as well as visual expression. (in fact I always thought it would be great to be a cartoon conductor: where the charctor is doing all sorts of motions and genertating dynamics and phrases) There was mention on the other thread of other concepts I found equally intriguing: such as the chromatic staff - I had never even heard of the chromatic staff, so will look into it further. If they had a "Thummer" ready to go, and it wasn't an arm and a leg, I would try it out. On the Thumbtronics site's forum, another similiar device called a"Jammer" was mentioned, with some basic instructions on building it. Basically, the author took an existign MIDI keyboard, and rearranged and rebuilt the keys.

Neigh... neigh... I stomp my left fore hoof 2 times for "Neigh..." In a world of ID theft, break-ins, instant reverse-lookups online, and a limited number of us, annomity is the best way to go. back to me oats

Man, you don't have an eye for place to live. You need a russian blood, a drop or two. Move! you are correct, I over emphasized my particuliar corner of the world - it is truly horrible, I moved here as I needed a place quick for my new job. I will be moving soon, sorry to burden the concertina.net community with my living situation, it was uncalled for.

Egads! are we not living in the 21st century? are we expected to be typists? bring on the spelling checker!

I will always have a soft spot for the much Maligned MaCaan duet, the first concertina which spoke to me. But I play mostly on my Crane now, I'm quite happy with it, but I think both systems are actaully good. My Macaan will be restored by a competent proffessional, as I myself have concluded I would rather play the beast than develop the skills to maintain it.

I started with mandolin when I was 16, since evrybody I knew played guitar, I wanted to be different. After two years I changed over to an Octave Mandolin, then in another 4 years Guitar (got more and more chordal and bassier). I got a penny whistle and goofed around with it for a very short time when i first got turned onto Celtic and Irish music. It was many years of playign mostly Guitar (elctric and acoustic) and fading on mandolin before I decided to go with a concertina, but I really wish I had picked one up sooner - its a great instrument, but now I'm preaching to the choir. I kind of wish I could go back in time, acquire a nice Crane duet, and proceed from there. But now that I'm older, music is not a career choice, but just for laughs. In some respects, I'm always re-learning guitar, and expect to play it , my mandolin, and of course my Crane duet till I can't play anymore (regardless of how well I do it!)