Hooves

I didn't mean to imply the Rochelle was a bad box: I'm reffering to the Chinese no-names that come up on Ebay. I have never played on a Rochelle, and so I cannot compare its quality. I'm guessing the Rochelle anglo costs more than $150 new? The boxes I'm reffering to are the low priced mass market concertinas, plastic, paper bellows, aluminum action, etc that you can pick up dirt cheap on ebay or some online music stores. Still, I think once you have decided to play a concertina, you will stick with it, may as well get one you will enjoy for many years. If Rochelle's had been around when I first started, I may well have purchased one. But now 3 years later, I have been bit by the vintage bug, though when I win the lottery I will be giving Mr. Tedrow a call...

In both locales, we will play harmonies and countermelodies on our tinas. But in the coolor spot, we will actually agree on the chords. --Mike K. Luckily, we'll have all eternity to do it in. That should be long enough. Probably. You also have to factor in the time it'll take for some of us English-style anglo players to work out what chord it is that we're actually playing. having the best and worst of both worlds, I imagine eternal purgatory for us Duet players. We'll visit you upon occasion for rhythmic insights, and smile knowingly at your chordal distemperment.

Idon't play anglo, but thats what i first started on, and I read, read, read some more before deciding a 30 button was what I wanted. BUT, don't get one of those cheapo honking 8.5" boxes made in China, that box proved a major dissapointment and was just awful to listen too. I got a german anglo, imitation lachenal, only 20 buttons, that box inspired me to get a good box (I now play duet). although not an english made box, compared to the cheapo chinese its quite sweet. So spend a little more and get something you can enjoy playing. Be prepared for sticker shock! I believe most of the notes on the 20 button rows correspond to the Richter tuning used on many harmonicas. Anglo players want 30+ buttons so they can play chromatically and in other keys. The C# is particularly valued as it affords the player the wonderful and all consuming key of D major. I have a mini diatonic accordion, often I have thought it would be more paratical to have 3 rows and play across them. Most anglo players play across the rows, so more is better, though I admit my horrible 30 button was a bit itimidating at first.

It reminded me at first glance of the Jones Miniture featured on the Mini Concertina site: the green leather and rosewood fretwork made me think for a half a moment it was a rare Jones' miniature, but then I read the rest of the comments and concluded it wasn't. If you get a chance, check out the very cool little Jones miniature on the Mini-concertina site: if it had been one of those, I would have paid that much or more for it.

I suppose that hit your funny bone - oh oh too cliche, but wait! is that a bonefied concertina player? He seems a bit thin for the anglo...

I found another article that provides support for your argument (this should probably be another thread about bodhrans and ITM) http://www.ceolas.org/instruments/bodhran/history.shtml I think then maybe you can conclude there is no such thing as traditional instruments for ITM, unless you are reffering to a NEW tradition, and not one as old as the music itself. Oh, and there was a comment about bass not playing melody - this is simply not true, look on you tube and watch as bass players do indeed play a lot of melody, at least on electric bass. A standard 4 string bass is only 1 octave below a guitar, so starting on the D string you are in guitar territoty. Would anybody argue that guitar is not a melody instrument?

I played last week I choose to play: The Irish ballad, Mountains of Mourne, and Jolly Beggar Man reel. When I started playign the Jolly Beggarman I got some hoots and calls, didn't surprise me but through me off and I ended up taking 2 "solos"... I used my guitar not my box as I need baffles and mics for my concertina, its very difficult to sing to it since its so loud, plus, I play guitar siginificantly better than concertina, hopefully next year I will play all on the box.

Ok I'm passing on 2 shillings handed to me at a celtic festival a couple years ago: the Band was Lunasa, a women playing Bodhran with them (don't recall her name, but she wasn't with them last time I saw them play) said: "harmony is what happens when somebody doesn't know how to play the tune..."

I'd have to disagree with you on the bodhran, which, although traditionally associated with the Wren Boys on St Stephen's Day, has only been used in ITM since the 1950s. Got this off of Wikipedia - The bodhrán was used during the Irish rebellion of 1603, by the Irish forces, as a war drum, or battle drum. The use of the drum was to provide a cadence for the pipers and warriors to keep to, as well as announce the arrival of the army. This leads some to think that the bodhrán was derived from an old Celtic war drum. hmmm, I'm no math genius but 1603 sounds a lot earlier than 1950...

I have read that there are only 3 ITM (Irish Traditional Music) instruments: Whistle, Bodhran, and Harp. Not being 400 years old, despite popular belief, I have no way of knowing if this is true. I had also read that O'Carolans' music was some of the only Irish music preserved from for lack of a better term "early period". Since he was harpist, there might some truth to that. I have never actaully been to a real "ITM" session, but rather numerous "Celtic" festivals where just about anything goes from Ocarina to Didgeridoo. I have never once seen a Harp player with a band, though never without a Bodhran, and often with whistle. Banjos, Bouzoukis, Guitars, Mandolins, Fiddles, Accordions, Timbales, Tambourines, Djembe, BagPipes, Whistles, Flutes, Recorders, Full Drum Kits, Keyboards... I'm picturing Brian Boru's March on Kazoo quintet: mason jar percussion and jackass jaw rattles, someday I'll pull out the ol Kazoo at a session and have a go at it.

Its true that you need to learn each scale differently with both Crane/MacCaan systems: I own one of each - a 46 key MacCaan and a 48 key Crane. For me as a solo performer, this isn't really an issue: I learn how to play a tune/song in a key and stick with it. But the box is only a tertiary instrument for me, when I feel like playign music I reach for my Guitar or Octave mandolin, the Concertina is my alternate instrument for when my callouses are wearing thin. MacCaan - I like the left hand side, I feel like its easier to improvise for some reason, possibly due to my guitar/mandolin background and the fact I started with the MacCaan before switching to the Crane. Crane - I think workign out chords is easier, and playing in certian keys is a snap - basically anything from 0 to 2 accidentals is pretty straight forward (C, G, F, D), thats because all the accidentals are outside the central "C" buttons. I haven't ventured far enough into chromatic playing although when I have asked Crane players, I have been told by those who play both systems that the Crane is better for chromatic runs, though I imagine a pro MacCaan player would argue the opposite. I'm not 100% convinced that having accidentals on the outside is really a significant advantage once you get into keys which have 3 or more accidentals, but ultimately I am an enthusiastic amateur (for me the Duet is my final stand on concertina). The true test would require time: it may be easier to start on a Crane, but after a few years which actaully yields the best performance options? - without that expierence, I'm still voting for the Crane (sorry Dr. MacCaan!). I will check out the article mentioned comparing the systems. After all Hayden came up with his system after studying the MacCaan and Crane systems. I really like havign 2 systems to play with, although I now focus on the Crane - its better restored (a real nice box thanks to Mr. Barelycorn). I imagine I will eventually depart from the MacCaan system though I plan to keep mine just in case, it was the first system that spoke to me. One of these days I would like to give the Hayden system a try, though the recent discussions on Janko have me batting an eye at other possible layouts for the box. I also use mine for folk accompianment, I'm trying to sing to my Crane but havign some difficulty due to the volume (I'm likely to install baffles. You should consider this: on both systems, one side tends to drown out the other, the bass side seems to suck up air making it harder to play your melody notes. if I make a full chord on the left side, I either drown out the melody due to volume, or deprive it of air. I find myself avoiding full chords unless I'm trying to sing, sometimes just droning or playing "Treble" chords on the right and a "bass" line on the left. --------------------- For those seeking the illusive Crane - I spent about 2 years searchign ebay auctions, never wanting to spend the cash, finally I decided to fork it over to a reputable restorer, and I'm glad I did. 48 keys is fine for me, I can't forsee needing or wanting more, but thats me. I read once that most melodies fell within 2 octaves. I no longer search ads, or ebay auctions - really all you need is one good box, unless you are a regular performer and need a backup, or another tone color. may as well get a nice restored box. Or if you got the cash, I'm sure many of the new builders can and would build you a duet to your spec - if they can build an English, if they can make an Anglo, they most certianly can build you a Duet.

rules are different at various open mics, but sure, why not - I think its almost a tradition to play 3 songs back to back, I often hear songs/tunes played this way at the Celtic festivals I attend. The rule at the club I like is 15 minutes or 3 "songs" whichever comes first.

thanks for the clarification - I didn't realize there was that distinction, but it makes sense: I chose "songs" not tunes, though if I don't sing my part and just play the melody, am I playing a "tune"? nice choices for those that responded, I'm off to search the archives for advice on singing over concertina.

I see what your problem is, its understandable, you are on a path of evolution spurned and funded by GAS (Gear aquisition syndrome). what your really hankering for is a Duet: whenever an anglo player starts eying the unisonorics, its a tell tale sign he or she really wants a Duet but cannot face the social stigma of being labeled such. So, now comes the time when you break away from convention, when you reach further into your pocketbook than even your GAS will propel, and throw your shillings at a Duet! Mind you, its not to be taken lightly, like winning a fluffy teddy bear by tossing dimes into a dish, the carnival music, the cotton candy, popcorn, and elephant fragrence dilates your nostrils as you wander booth to booth - "Oh what is it I long for? " coins jangeling in your sweaty fist Yes, that duet is calling you, waiting like a frothing pint on the bar. Go on, drink up lad!

hmm, is that 3 songs? I'll check it out though, thanks

would that be reffered to asa hybrid? I made a english-anglo out of 2 halves of concertina - 1 half english, 1 half anglo. Of course I only used my 2 cheapo chinses box halves and not soemthign of value, coicidently, the screws and ends matched up perfectly, although the halves were of different color. Sicne then, I ahve returned each to its appropriate other half after concluding I couldn't play that either.

excellent suggestion

I saw the author peform this tune at the Sebestapol Celtic festival. The band was Vasen, and they were great. He mentioned the song had gained a life of its own and was traveling about without him.

what would be the 3 of the 100's (dare I say thousands?) of irish tunes to play on St. Patricks day for an open mic performance given you can only play 3 tunes (thats the rules at the bar I play at upon occasion): my choices due to my limited knowledge of Irish tunes will be: The Wearing of the Green The Jolly Beggar Man (reel, not the Red Haired Boy) The Irish Ballad (by Tom Lehr) My alternative is the somber but enchanting "Mountains of Mourne"

All gone already! The old saying goes: "If anything is too good to be true then it is not true." Caveat Emptor. A person will have to travel back in time a few years before you will ever find a "Stunning Wheatstone Aeola" again for the price of $800.00 to $1000.00. Thank God Ebay is responding a bit faster now to remove these scams. yes, and the tendency to "Impulse Buy" should be curved accordingly - indeed, endeavor to remove all tendencies towards buying accordions...

HA! Hillarious! I think box playig has that effect on most critters, even the ones who can speak... I wonder then if somebody has actaully measured sound leevls from concertinas/accordions or other free reeds, in the higher frequncies that animals can hear? It would be interestign to see a frequncy plot of the true sonic range of concertinas. When in college, there was this rather annoying student who did not like my harmonica playing, she was always gettign in the way of my involvement with another girl student (the annoying one was her friend), so I nicknamed her "Espaniol" as a play on words i.e. "the Spaniel". So every time she dropped by I would shout "Espaniol!", and begin blowing as hard as possible on my key of A marine band harmonica, people thought I was working on my spanish...though she never seemed to get the hint. no insult intended to the spanish speakers among you.

It is rather cute, and oh thank ye Concertina Gods it has a C# key. But, the Tedrow Zephyr is still the anglo I will buy when I win the lottery (so don't start carving one out for me Ted, its along ways down the road.) well, if I'm ever that rich I'll be a real decadant bastard and buy a score of boxes. Someday i may return to the anglo, after my walk-about with the Crane and MacCaan duets. ---------------- Wow, check out those tuning and revalving prices at Marcus, thats pretty good, thats almost 1/3rd what I paid to have my 46key box re-tuned/revalved.

I think its pretty cool that somebody came up with the idea, can you direct me to some composers who use the Janko keyboard exclusively for composition? What would really be interesting is to see a side-by-side comparison of a famous piece performed on both systems, to compare ease of playing. It seems like a MIDI program could do this analysis easily if it had the setup for aJnko style keyboard. I know that thier is another system for typing keyboard keys was supposed to be more efficient, but they choose our current "qwerty" system so as to slow down typists so they wouldn't jam the machinery of the old mechanical typewriters. I would still be interested in a Janko MIDI keyboard, mainly becuasde I only barely know how to play any piano, so its not liek I would be relearning something.

No, its called using your mind to approach the same thing in more than one way, if you interpret thinking as painful, then I suppose for you it is masochistic. The real point is, you have 12 notes: you could make 100's of scales with the use of those 12 notes, For playing, all that matters is you know what note to play and when. For composition, you stated you had no use of music theory, so why do you bother learning any pattterns at all? Thats what most of what music theory is, explaining patterns of notes. I think virtually all melodic music has a scale base, but modern music departs from that base scale frequently, chromatic passages, major subsituitions, descending/ascending minor, but then again you have no use of music theory let alone jazz theory. For improvisation, I come from a guitar/mandolin background, transposing is not a major issue on guitar, its like the Janko in that you can shift up or down frets to transpose, the same pattern works in multiple spots - that is an advantage, but it helps alot in improvisation to know many ways to play the same type of scale. So though I think its neat that the janko keyboard allows you to play major scale the same way, you are still not learning just one pattern, unless you really believe all music can be expressed through the Major scale: 7 modes = 7 patterns (still much less than the standard piano at 84) now start adding up all the scales when you get to Pentatonic, Hexatonic, even with the Jako, you are memmorizing a whole lot of patterns. and of course lets not forget the piano masters - Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Beethoven, Les Reed, Scott Joplin - the list goes on and on......gee I wonder why?

Perhaps for those of us in california, just flying out of state may be the cheapest option when its a week long event. I wanted to go the zook fest last eyar, but it required flying out to it, so I didn't go do to work schedule plus I didn't really feel like the hassle of flying. With fuel prices up, those of us lucky enough to have such camps within driving distance should take advantage of them. My "Music Camp" is just going to shows, sitting quietly, listening and watching very intently. I believe 90% of learning is just watching.