Hooves

The picture speaks for itself. (taken without permission from a current Ebay auction which I can't find the number for, nor desire to)

I do not have anything to contribute, but I like the project and would like to show my support. When the CD/DVD is released I will definately get one.

A little excessive may be , I am happy yfor ou consider me an idiot as I said I was one but if you have never met Chris it is unfair to call him one. If ABC is obsolete what has replaced it? My understanding of something becoming obsolete is that some thing newer has replaced it? Well for guitar chords my humble hand written ABC works for me, I ususally try to find the base key then the changes when transcribing a song I don't have music for. I have to agree with Dirge in that learnign how to read standard music is of great use. For me, my reading is hindered by the fatc I don't really study it unless I have to. For the box, I'm learning to read music all over agian, to assocaite my buttons with staff notes (attempting at least), which is why I have decided to focus on just my MacCaan. As long as you have a system that works for you, that you can understand, I think that is whats the most important. But when it comes time to play with others, you need to speak the same musical language.

That makes much more sense in terms of computer use and e-communication. Ive seen some programs for converting to/from MIDI to "ABC", so use of standard ascii sysmbols would seem a requirement. Wouldn't have guessed he was a piper, so kudos to him.

This is all I could think of when I read that: If you're not familiar with the fish, you might want to read about the Crappie on Wikipedia. Funny Picture!

So is Chris Walshaw considered the "inventor" of ABC notation? Many musicians have used variants of what is now called ABC notation for a long time, I guess he gets the title for actaully making a standard version and coining the term "ABC". When I first started playign music back in the early 1980's I used to write out notes as letter values since I couldn't read music very well, though certainly not as formalized as the system Walshaw has described. In my case, I would use an underscores to indicate the note was longer and a digit to represnt the octave (Walshaws system uses Upper/Lowercase letters and a digit to indicate multiples of the beat) There are probably many examples of "ABC" notation people have developed on their own as shorthand: I was attempting to work with a fiddle player once who got very upset that my shorthand wasn't "standard ABC", and I was urprised to hear somebody had actaully formalized that style of notation. In some respects it reminds me of the jazz shorthand fake-books used since the 1930-40's.

Reliably living up to your Avatar - Your are correct in that my Avator needs updating. I have changed it to help some of the more challanged members to more accurately identify my true nature.

Soo, then, do you have the dots for this 'Crappie Air?? I've looked in the Tune-o-Tron but it's not there and I've always had a liking for flatulent Irish Air!! Jake there is no written music for McCrappie's Air: No Dots. No Tab. No score... However you have heard it played many times, if not, travel down to a local session, better still pop in to a "celtic" festival. McCrappie's Air fills the halls like a cacophony of unflushed porta-johns.

Ah yes the MaCaan duet: maligned, adored, despised, and thrown into a closest to languish in the demise of victorian zeal. So why then the funny Eb? Why then no low D on the left side? It was a snub: a snub at the droning monotony of Irish tunes saturated in D. yes, I beleive I have solved the mystery of the missing D, it was completely and deviously intentional. MacCaan wanted his box to go on to concert halls and be the star child of his twinkling dreams, far from the clutches of hairy knuckles. Leaving out the low D made it an instant curse to Irish tunes, or rather "Irish-Like" tunes... The awkward Eb, a dagger in the claddagh - but all for a purpose: the Good Dr. was also a teacher, his lesson was "transpose" - his message was "Escape the cliche's of McCrappie's air". How many times have you heard the rollicking compound flatulence of McCrappie's Air? At celtic festivals, on the street corner, in pubs and sessions, its hodgepodge bouquet of scattered fragments perfumes the halls like a belching donkey.

Yes but we have the extreme advantage that we can re-tune our guitars to make them match better for different songs. banjos are tuned in so many different ways I can't imagine there is a tuning not tried on banjo. I also play octave mandolin and I use some tunings that are also used in banjo playing. For concertina, short of buying a new one or getting a reed or two re-tuned, thats what you got. It does not surprise me evena little that some songs work better on fiddle than on concertina (any type of box). also, I suspect many tunes being played were wrtitten on concertina, and so take advantage of the simpler fingerings. I'm focusing these days on the MacCaan duet (with all of 46 keys and no air button), I have found a few tunes that even an amateur like me can sound out and they fall very naturally on the keyboard.

I agree with Dirge: even a single extra note really helps round out the music. When I hear people playing , and I think it sounds good, its almost always smooth rhythm with a steady melody, or a harmonized piece with occaisonal stabs of chords or parts of them. The fifth is such a safe interval it couldn't hurt to try to throw some in once in a while. Some accordions have stops to pull out the 3rd, or don't have them at all in the chord keys. I'm trying to learn how to play the MacCaan duet, I find it difficult to actaully get one side to play a full chord and hear the melody on the otherside, either too much air gets used, or the combined volume drowns out the other reed. This kind of coincides with the concertina playign I have heard, only occaisonal use of full chords. I actaully got my Duet so I could play chords to accompany singing, it seemed to me it would be easier than on the English. I had bought an English for the same purpose since I ahd read it was good for chords, but gave up on the instrument in favor of the diatonic button accordion and the Duet. I got the idea after seeing a woman play and sing to a concertina in a penny opera, which i'm sure was an English.

What is a "HP" instrument, "Home Project"?? whats the askign price?

Ok I have never tried this, its just something that might work but would have to be tried out. Theres a type of microphone called a PZM, pressure zone microphone, they are sometimes used on piano lids since you can mount then flush against a flat surface. I don't know if there would be enough room inside a concertina to put one inside, or if it would hinder air flow since its got a flat base. PZMs are mounted to walls and the large surface of the wall helps it work, so it may not work at all in a concertina, but still I think it might be worth checking out, I have read they recomend mounting them to an area at least 1 square meter (thats a big box!), however I would still be interested to find out if it could work in the confines of the concertina. Crown makes some PZMs, and I have been told by one of the "Concert Engineers" about 10 years ago that the Radio Shack mic is actaully made by Crown and just has a different brand name stamped on it (I don't know how to verify this). If I can find one at the local Radio Crap I will try it out and let you know my results.

amongst belches and banter, disgruntled drunken groans, a hairy knuckled hand casts a strangely ornate hexagonal box to the sky. Tumbeling heaven ward, amongst hoots and howles, bannana peelings and "forget-me-nots" baking on a granite slab, the beast transforms: a caterpiller foaming in its coccoon, leather and wood resound, buttons sunder up and the shell of pretentious bisonorism sheds away. Spiralling on its way through space, grinding its way through the curvature of the cosmos, it waltzes past the clutches of non-opposing digits, a shooting star twinkling in moon glazed eyes. Fear, prejudice, disbelief - at last the creature uncurls from its heavenly voyage. A mighty rock is rolled away, from a shadowy cavern a figure emerges with the box, bedecked with harmony, reeling with chromatisism, leaving the lamenting cries of envy chained to endless drones in D.

Another really good photo essay, thanks for sharing some of the secrets of your trade. With all the flak about concertina prices, seeing how a proffessional builds one re-affirms the value of skilled craftmanship.

Those are some great links. I really like the photo essay on building the concertina from scratch, it shows just how many tools and parts you will need to build to get it going. The tina he builds looks very nice. I'm planning to post my own concertina construction photos once I get my CNC set up again (all my "stuff" is in boxes from moving, CNC is not for Gypsies!) The price tag on that set of Suttner reeds leaves much to be desired, Still its good to see the option is out there. Thanks for the links.

Thats the lowest price Ive seen yet for a new mini-anglo. I think thats a pretty fair price for a custom hand made instrument. I didn't realize the Tedro mini was only 1500, its sure to be a collctor's item though I have my eyes on the Zephyr (If I ever get serious with the anglo). I have a Giordy and I think its great. I got mine from the Button Box, its a lot of fun and sounds really good. the low notes are somewhat raspy, especially on the bass end with the Chords/ bass buttons. the higher notes sound to me much like a concertina. Its a very well built and attractive little box, however I am afraid somebody might think its a cash register, and destroy the poor thing looking for cash. if you order one you can choose which key its in and have the notes customized as well. I went for as standard as I could since I'm just starting on the Diatonic button accordion, but now I kind of wish I had thought out the bass section more. I plan to get another one in G/D next year. Still, I'm happy with it and its very small, I think its actaully smaller (when closed up and strapped) to my standard sized concertina.

Anthony James makes one also: http://www.apjmusic.co.uk/ Morgana has anice Mini concertina site up with pictures of sevral very nice minis, my favorite being the Jones miniature. http://ptollemy.tripod.com/mini/mini.html She was selling her mini a few months ago, don't know if it ever sold. Be prepared to pay an awful lot, I just about got crucified suggesting a low cost model be produced for the masses.

I wasn't going to post again on this topic, however after thinking about this issue a little more I think you would have to say a piano has NO overlap: there is nowhere on a piano where you have 2 of the same notes. Yes, you can use each hand to play notes but you never play the exact same note with both hands, nor can you have a unison as there is only one key to hit. Better to not even compare concertinas and pianos, or with other instruments for that mater. Two different beasts with thier own techniques and advantages. I shall not put my lovely little Lachenal on the scale with a Steinway again. ---- Taking wagers on how many people will be offended by my use of "Steinway"...

this sounds like fun and may get you to music never heard before. May or may not, the point is that there is no system that is better for the ragtime on instruments other than piano. Every other instrument will demand adaptation, with resulting music been very different from classic Ragtime. Therefore the original question, "which system of Duet Concertina is better for ragtime?" is answered by "Depends on what you can do with it". If the question meant "Which system of Duet Concertina will give me the closest approximation of original ragtime?", the answer is "None". I percieve the sound of concertina to be very unique, even "weird". So to me, the repertore must feed on this "weirdness". Irish traditional music certainly adapted Concertina. Boer music is shaped by it too, as I understand. But with other genres, Concertina must be used very delicately, it is capable of making a mockery of itself. All and all, very difficult and demanding instrument. May be it's the reason it fell out of fashion. Thanks for all your input. I am weighing all the opinions and bits of wisdom on my journey through concertina playing and maintenance. I am surprised by the diversity of styles reprsented by the players, thanks agin for contributing your insights. I am trying not to post too much as even I am sick of seeing my name on the posts!

Fair question, my humble answer is "I don't know". I think the distinction betweeen the differing degrees of action treatment are worth noting, "restoration" vs. "replacement". I prefer to pursue the philosphy of "If it ain't broke...", yet the the idea of ressurrecting antiques I think is a noble pursuit, but your point remains valid on the very low end models. BTW I like brass reeds I'm wondering if it would be easier to make brass "concertina" reeds which sound like vintage reeds rather than trying to get modern accordion steel reeds to sound like vintage reeds, but I digress, this is a thread about action replacement. Thanks for the link to the site, the action looks very nice and well done.

What I meant was a newely developed key arrangement ( I have some initial ideas). I was trying to probe peoples' minds to find out how open they might be to a system as yet undescribed. I am currently learing and enjoying the MacCaan system, and I am hoping to give the Crane system a go in the near future. The Crane system looks to me to be a lot more logical and it has 5 rows as oppsoed to the six on a MacCaan, I belive that would be easier to finger, but I need to check it out before making any real solid statements. I got some feedback that the Crane system would work better for chromatic passages, but I need to furhther investage it. Mr. Hayden has put together a book consisting of excercises for all systems, I will be reading his work as soon as I have time, as I believe I can gleam some insight from his work and understand the Hayden system he came up much better. Thanks for your comments!

Has anybody actaully determined what sort of pitch or timbre difference is achieved using different types of metal on the ends? For example, aluminum vs. Brass, or steal? Would these materials effect tone, or would an aluminum end sound pretty much like a steal one? (I don't know just what types of Metal have been used). or even coated metal ends, such as leather directly on the metal but cut to follow the fretwork pattern and not act as a baffle. I'm even wondering about liquid vinyl, painted onto the inside of the metal end.

Could we still see a picture of this new action? I'm interested because I thought most restorers were passing on concertinas which needed a lot of work on the action as being too expensive to repair, thats why this thread caught my attention. I have though read of restorers re-building the existing action where needed. I have a mini-german anglo I considered completely replacing the entire action more as an excercise than a neccessity, literally "Englising" it, with a home brew rivited action, but have not really pursued it. Could you give us an idea how much an action replacement migth run? For example, say a standard sized 20 button Lachenal or similiar? I think this would be a good option for somebody who wants to Hot-Rod thier favorite box.