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Roger Gawley

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Posts posted by Roger Gawley

  1. Yep, Robert Harbron is a wonderful exponent of the English concertina and definitely worth going to hear perform. I recently had the pleasure of seeing him and his fiddle playing partner Emma Reid, performing live up in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Just listen to his playing on the recently released EI. It's fabulous and full of zest.

    Chris

     

    Good together aren't they?

     

    What struck us was that Emma, who is half-Swedish, sounded a bit more English as a result of playing with Rob and Rob sounded a little more Swedish (slightly less English anyway). Then they pitch into American tunes and it all sounds different again.

     

    Rob is now on the road with Nancy Kerr and James Fagan. Just finished a tour with Methera, a folk-inclined string quartet which includes Emma. Best part of the show was their "big band" set together.

     

    Go see the man in any combination.

  2. This sums it up perfectly. EC playing largely suffers from the same thing as Piano accordion in dance music. You have to work at separating the notes clearly otherwise it just sounds mushy and will lift no-one's foot off the floor.

     

    No you don't.

     

    You have to separate the notes but it is no particular effort, more a way of looking at things. English players may be more inclined to start from a written tune and they are sometimes written out to look more uniform than they are played. You need to know what a hornpipe for instance should sound like but it is not particularly hard to play properly on English concertina.

  3. Hey, are Anglo players allowed to speak about the English Concertina here? :ph34r:

     

    Certainly.

     

    However, before I commit myself, I'm wondering how easy it is to play along with songs in C & F on an English Concertina?

     

    Fairly easy

     

    How easy is it to play the English system after playing the Anglo for nearly 30 years?

     

    How easy is it to play both systems at the same time ... if you know what I mean?

     

    Depends who you are. Ever met Keith Kendrick?

     

    Also, is it simple enough to play tunes fairly quickly in C & F on an English? You see, our Northumbrian piper's pipes are in F.

     

    Most Northumbrian pipes seem to be in F-sharpish

     

    P.S. Last question .... would Anglo players still speak to me, if I started playing an English Concertina? :lol:

     

    Probably not. Win some, lose some, Roger

  4. My "dots" reading is pretty ropey. At best, an aid to working out a tune that I know already. One thing I would say is make the most of the tunes you know and have have the dots for. The thing that I find hardest about dots is not the pitch (I can read that fine), but the note durations. By sitting down and looking at the dots for a tune I know already, I've found this helps makes sense of quavers, crotchets, dots, and all that, for when I'm looking at a less familiar tune. It also helps me if a sort of mentally tap my foot while reading the notation -- I've found this particularly useful with jigs, cos it's quite easy to do "1-2-3, 1-2-3".

     

    Many of us are pretty ropey and reading rhythm from the dots but, as noted by others, the written dots are often only an outline of the tune anyway.

     

    If you ever get to hear Alistair Anderson describe how Will Taylor taught himself to read music, do. In outline, Taylor who had been playing traditionally for decades, found himself confined to home by a nasty virus, sent his wife to buy "1001 folk tunes" and started with those that he knew working out what the dots meant. He was quite good at reading by the end of the week.

  5. I guess that is probably true when the instruments are similar, such as the Anglo and Concertina. But I bet piano is harder to learn than a penny whistle :-)

     

    Regards, Chris

     

    I realise that you are joking but actually it is not. It is easier (for some people at least) to hack out a simple melody with one hand on piano than whistle. The trouble is that this is so easy you are expected to do something different with the other hand.

     

    Like everyone has already said, some instruments are easier for some things. The easy one for you is the one you get on well with.

  6. tallship has beaten me to filling in the names.

     

    Having printed out the tunes and taken them home, I see that something funny has happened to Rusty Gulley. The time signature is given as 3/2 but there are six quavers to the bar. Now, around here (northeast England) Rusty Gulley is generally played with an alternating rhythm. Take the dots as they come out and treat the time signature as being alternately 3/4 and 6/8. Actually a few 3/2 tunes seem to do this but not always so regularly.

     

    Not explaining this very well. Think of each bar as six notes, whatever they are and place the accents in the odd-numbered bars on beats one, three and five of the six and in even-numbered bars on beats one and four. I think this is what the Cut and Dry Band do on The Wind in the Reeds but they play it very fast.

     

    Will try to dot this out over the weekend, Roger

  7. The weekend weather forecast doesn't look too good in the UK, so here are a couple of tunes to get the fingers working, both should be played fairly staccato but it was too much trouble to try and get the abc spot on. These tunes appear on a CD called "The Wind in the Reeds" which is still available (in the UK at least). A brisk jig and a triple hornpipe seem to go well together and Pheasant's Dance is a particularly pretty tune. m3838 should enjoy this one. ;)

     

    Pete.

     

     

    That would be the CD that should have been called "The (almost) Complete Cut and Dry Band" featuring Alistair Anderson with the two Robbs and two other Northumbrian pipers whose names will not come right now. So they should be played very staccato if you want to get the pipes sound.

     

    I know a record shop (OK, I partly own it) that would be happy to send the recording to any part of the world.

  8. Anyway; you are probably a year or two away from achieving the above, but it might be worth listening to pieces, which you are learning, during the day (assuming that you have recordings, to imprint them in your mind), before attempting to practice the same pieces in the evening. Also; I favour working on two or three pieces simultaneously. If one piece is not working out, you can always drop it in favour of another which is coming along better.

     

    Peter.

     

    Somewhere (think it was on concertina.net but I cannot locate it) I read a discussion on the most productive ratio of listening to actual practice when learning a tune.

     

    The view expressed by people I have great regard for was that ten to one would be about right.

     

    Time of day is also very personal, but remember the state-dependent learning effect (that which is learned whilst drunk is best recalled whilst drunk). Once you have got somewhere with a tune, try to play it at different times, in different rooms and watching the buses go past the window.

     

    Happy practicing, Roger

  9. Two-finger, three-finger and four-finger styles are all possible and all have advantages. Try everything and settle on what works best for you.

     

    But, sooner rather than later, consider using a "wrong" finger to avoid problems. The most common challenge is to play two notes a fifth apart (and so using the same finger) either smoothly or very fast. The solution is to cross over a finger but which way to do it will depend on your hands and on the tune.

     

    You need a map of which finger goes on which button to make any progress when starting but you also need to move beyond it to get past a certain level. Emily Ball got me to be more flexible about which finger I used on which button. I wish I had run into her much sooner.

     

    Roger

  10. There is no one best way to learn: it depends on many factors including the kind of person you are today.

     

    Some ways are better than others and the ones involving other players (not necessarily concertina players) are better than sitting at home with any kind of teaching aid.

     

    John Adey is right that Kilve would be good. I went there for the first time in March. They are a very friendly and encouraging bunch. May go back in October although it is a long way for me. Essex may not be that much closer than Durham.

     

    Roger

  11. What I didn't like was the singing. Both Bella Hardy and Martin Simpson have great voices and can use them, but are very stylised in their singing. I've always believed that in a traditional song the words come first and the job of the singer is to put them over to the best of their ability. These two make the words subservient to the arrangements, and that is just wrong for me. They were nice arrangements, though.

     

    Chris

     

    I am sure that both Bella and Martin share your belief that the song is more important than the singer. They do have stylised voices but so did many traditional singers. Each of them wrote one of the songs they sang so they have first go at what the style for that one should be. Bella seemed very nervous; she is normally more relaxed and that did affect the voice.

     

    When he played at the CD launch party, Chris Sherburn said that he found it difficult to find the right note to accompany Bella's voice. Many players would pick up a different concertina but he preferred to work it out on his normal instrument.

  12. My partner Anne has just won a place to read music at Bath Spa University from September, and one of the features of the course is frequent sessions of playing in front of other students followed by constructive criticism. Talk about motivation! She's spending several hours every day practicing her two main instruments (voice and concertina) to bring herself up to the standard she imagines that all these 18 year olds will be at when she starts.

     

    Having spent much of the last couple of days at The Sage, Gateshead watching final year performances by students on the folk degree course at Newcastle, I can understand how Anne feels. She should not worry though: youth brings something to music but experience brings something else, particularly to song.

     

    Best of luck to both of you in this new enterprise! Roger

  13. Getting out to meet other duet players is definitely good advice.

    Perfect if they play Hayden but good anyway.

     

    Last week at the Swaledale Squeeze, I invited myself to sit in with Tim

    Laycock's duet group: five people playing three different systems! They

    were very kind. None of them play Hayden (truth be known, nor do I) but

    they offered some good ideas and were very encouraging.

     

    Get out there and meet some players. Do not wait until you are "good

    enough". I did that with English concertina and missed years of support

    and fellowship that way.

     

    Of course, if you can get to England, Hayden players are more numerous

    although still thin on the ground. Visit Kilve and you can probably get

    advice from the man himself.

     

    Roger

  14. Since there is no official school of concertina playing, there is no accepted way to play it, as I see it.

    Two fingers on three buttons may seem like easy way out, but only if you plan to stay within some easy simplified music and folk. You try to play chordal arrangements, where you press 4 buttons, then , while keeping 3 depressed, move 4th, then, while keeping the 4th and 2nd depressed, moving 1st and 3rd and then change the hole position - and we'll talk then. When listening to people's advices, it is always recommended to visit C.net recording page and search for those people's playing examples. It clears what they are talking about.

    One thing - ocasionally play a chord with two fingers, and another - to play an arrangement that requires complicated maneuvres.

    Try both ways, you'll find applications for all of them.

    But your example just proves that wider spacing of the buttons would have been more handy, than many respondents, having used to traditional layout, are keen to believe.

    I'll try to provide the example of score, which is impractical to play with two buttons under one finger.

    But remind me if I didn't do it next week.

     

    This is all very true. Rob Harbron often does something where he holds on the common note whilst changing the others. For instance, when going from a C chord to a G chord the G note is common. You cannot do that with one finger on three buttons.

     

    The advice to try both ways and see which you prefer for this case seems to hold good for many aspects of concertina playing (and probably much more). Allan Atlas says much the same in his book. The only bad way to play is one that causes injury.

     

    But I do not agree about wider spacing. Obviously different players have different fingers. In just about every case where Allan describes his way to cross fingers, I would cross the other way round. Does not mean that either of us is wrong: just different. But nor does it mean that changing the design would be a good idea. The beauty of English concertinas is that they are all the same (well, nearly) unlike Anglos where finding two the same is a surprise (am I allowed to say that here?)

     

    Roger, ducking and running

  15. The spacing is just about perfect. You (well I anyway) can use one finger per button if you want to or one finger on three buttons sometimes.

     

    A few weeks back in a mixed band led by David Oliver and unsurprisingly containing two piano accordions, we were looking at a chord that started out as an E7. You can do that with three fingers on the left end of an English layout. Still get drowned by the PAs. Then David suggested getting a bit jazzy (it was a cajun tune so artististic sensibilty did not enter) and adding the 9th. I got a bit carried away and put in the 11th, 13th and 15th. Had to cheat a bit and move the G# down and play Aflat with my little finger. At this point all I can do it clamp the instrument to my left knee and pump out the rythm using my right hand but it does begin to compete with the accordions.

     

    Seven notes using four fingers on one hand. Still not up to some of the stuff in Dancin Wtih Ma Baby.

     

    No need for any improvement, Roger

  16. FWIW, your notation looks a lot like the tune sheets that slide under those little trapezoidal melody harps with the horizontal strings, except yours is rotated 90 degrees. That's not a criticism -- that notation works for kids and beginners, but I forget how it handles timing.

     

    I have one of them, great fun. My wife bought it for me to stop me going on about wanting a hammered dulcimer.

     

    The trapezoidal tune cards have crochets and quavers printed on them under the strings with a zigzag line to follow the tune. They also use commas to mark the points where a singer or whistle player would breathe. These are remarkably helpful. Italian tadpoles do not tell the whole story.

     

    Of course, this only works for short tunes. It is meant to help you hack out a tune that you know.

     

    I believe that it was intended for Russian schoolchildren but some evil capitalist grabbed it and shipped it to England.

     

    Roger

  17. Don't know if it's much practical help, but have you seen my thread under "Instrument Construction and Repair" where I give a photo tour of the 67's inside and out? This will save you from taking yours apart to admire the fine construction of the reed banks.

     

    Actually, it's safe to take an end off and access the reeds. Taking the action cover off will leave you with a real challenge to get all the buttons back thru the felt-bushed holes -- so look at my photos instead ;)

     

    PLAYING -- the handle/strap setup tends to tilt your finger downward across the rows, so your index finger hits high and your pinky misses low. Try to keep your thumb pulled back on the hand rest, so your wrist enters the strap at an angle from below, not above.

     

    You may find some of the reeds sluggish, and unevenly voiced, so you have to play fairly loud, squeezing hard, and the bellows don't hold a lot of air so you reverse often.

     

    But man, do those LH side deep bass chords sound fine! Move over, Stradella!

     

    Thanks for this. I had missed the construction and repair thread; seen it now. I might take the ends off anyway but I am forewarned.

     

    Have not developed a playing style yet so your comment about hand position is useful.

     

    What you say about the reeds is true (I was aware of this before I bought the instrument). It rates average on the baritone scale. That is to say that compared to baritone concertinas which tend to suffer from the same problem, it is better than the worst I have ever played and not as good as the best.

     

    OK, I will try some deep, low chords. I sometimes play in a group with two piano accordions so need something like that.

     

    I seem to be making myself out to be an ace player. Actually, I can play Three Blind Mice in parallel octaves so far. But in a range of keys!

     

    Encouragement always welcome, Roger

  18. Just so I get off on the right foot. I am playing chords with my index finger playing 2 buttons (eg C and G and my second finger E.... for C major). Is that OK or should I be using 3 fingers! <_<

    Mike

     

    There are two schools of thought on this one (and some very strongly held views!)

     

    If you can play two or three buttons consistently with one finger, go ahead and do it. Or course this can make it difficult to play moving chords (such as going from a C-chord to a G-chord with the G-note held over the change). You may not feel the need to do this.

     

    Be brave and do not let anyone tell you that you are doing it "wrong".

  19. I would second both recommendations. Cannot see where you are. If in UK, we could send you a copy of Alistair's tutor (or Folkworks would). Neil Wayne is bringing out the recording on CD any day now. Last time I spoke to him, he had plans to put the tutor on the web as a PDF file.

     

    Allan Atlas' book is wonderful, and one of the few to address the question "how should I hold the instrument", but not really for beginners.

     

    There are quite a few recent tutor books each with strengths and weaknesses (he says, mumbling into beard). Get hold of Alistair's Concertina Workshop if you can.

  20. I have used abc quite a bit.

     

    References have already been posted to Chris Walshaw's pages and Steve Mansfield's tutorial at lessession. You can even save a copy of that to your machine so you can refer to it offline while typing tunes.

     

    There are thousands of tunes available in abc format. As pointed out, the quality varies but so does the reliability of hearing any one version live.

     

    I use Bryan Creer's abacus program which is neither quirky not inefficient. Not sure if that is currently available. It is certainly quite useable as a text processor for music.

     

    Good luck! Roger

  21. CHRIS AND FOLKS: for better or worse, that's what i sound like. . . . . . .hope my "pronunciation" of "free-reed" wasn't too labored. . . .it's just that if i say it quickly, many people think it's THREE-reed. . . . . .so i lean on the letter "f". . . .

     

    anyway, i thought Paul Evans did a very nice job of putting the program together..............Allan

     

     

    Allan, "free-reed" was just fine. We found your version of "Newcastle" slightly amusing.

     

    And I agree with you that Paul Evans did a good job. (Where were you recorded?)

     

    Cheers, Roger

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