Dark_Templar

The only style of rock I like that is pre 60's is Chuck Berry, The Shadows etc. I'm a 70's and 80's person myself

Hmm. Well, now that we have gone on a tangent. Rock N Roll was just getting off the ground in the 60's. But, I'm not going to talk about that - because we can argue over good/bad bands from then till now.

What I also meant by the caning remark was that things have changed conciderably since the 50's and 60's. Most of you had a broader education then nowadays. I know that my History lessons at School, over the last 7 years of it, could have taught me more then Roman history & World War 2. I would have liked to have learnt about our country. So I'm not having a dig. Just pointing out that things were totally different for you when you were my age. Hey, some of you lot were lucky enough to be in your early 20's during the 60's.

I chuckled when I read the last post. Just because I am young doesn't mean I can only interact with others my own age. I get on with my dad's friends as well as any of my own. Lol, I'm not trying to get your goat or anything, but when most of you were young, caning was still allowed etc. Now, I'm not saying that because it isn't I am a hoodie ruffian thug, because I'm not. I'm just a decent chap trying to get enough money to pay the bills, go out occasionally etc. My father spoke to the Guy at Barleycorn, who also sells concertinas on Ebay under the name of Cocoa111. This was to do with a Wheatstone my father saw on Ebay. He phoned up to ask about it, as Barleycorn deal with second hand ones, and it turned out it was one that the guy @ B/C had restored, and was selling. If you lot really think I should go for a second hand one, then I'll concider it, but what do I do, or can I do, if the thing turns our to be crap, or I don't like it.

Oops sorry, I didn't realise I was supposed to be reading a few threads in tandem. It still looks a lot of money given the current market in English concertinas I didn't ask you to, but you have read the other thread & posts, because you sent me a lovely e-mail asking me to be more conciderate to the other members. the current market in English concertinas? What is the current market like at the moment then.... It seems almost non existant to someone who is new to the whole squeezebox thing.

Oh and another thing. Why would you say that the Holmwood is expensive at £3500. a NEW Wheatstone cost about the same, and Unlike Wheatstone, I'd get the instrument within a few months, rather than 4 odd years. So, if I had the £3500, I'd rather buy the Holmwood over a new Wheatstone simply on the basis that I'd get it sooner.

Oh yes, if I can buy an Ealoa for that kind of money, please point one out to me. Every Wheatstone, Lachanel and Crane concertina I have found on the internet for sale have gone for at least £1250, most going upto £1650 - 1750. Old concertinas don't go cheap, unless they are either 20 button ones, or ones fit only for extensive restoration. Any decent one goes for an over inflated price. With regards to what I was getting at earlier about the obscene amounts of money. I'll pose a question to you. Would you go and spend £3500 on something, lets say as an example, a T.V., without finding out anything about it. You wouldn't just go into a Shop, and go "I'll have that one", with checking things like > How many Scart Sockets it has > It's picture quality > It's sound quality Etc. would you??? the same goes for the concertina.

? Ok.... Please don't tell me that I can't contact Admin.... FFS, if I want to ask them something that is my business. If you are a member of the Admin, then my query should be kept confidential. If your Jewish, your Jewish, if your an athiest, your an athiest. I'm not overly sensetive, I just don't like being given answers that can be contrued as sarcastic, when I have taken the time to ask you people something, all you have to do is give me a decent answer. Now, what I think is going on is that you either don't like youngsters, or you don't like novices, or both. Can you tell me why the answers I have been given to my questions have been totally off the topic of the question itself? As to the comment by Paul, I said in the other thread I started that I would prefer to buy new, not old. Everything I have ever bought second hand, has turned out to have something wrong with it. Therefore, I would rather buy new. All I meant was that the way you lot have beein saying that I should be grateful/gracious about any "advise" no matter how freely given, is reminisent of the old class system. Shall I put my knuckle to my forehead and say "Thankee very much, Sirah" Would you all talk the same way to someone your own age, or is it because I am only 22? P.S. Someone contacted me today to tell me that they also thought that some of the comments made to me have been rather rude and flippant.

Lovely. You've given me the kind of answers I wanted in the first place. Thanks Richard. I just asked my dad, and after reading your reply to him, explained in more oor less the exact words you just typed cheers.

Also, I agree with you Richard. Hand made over machine made can be better, but not always. My father actually owns a kit built Live Steam train of the L.N.E.R. Mallard. Now, the steam train club he belongs to is rather funny. Most of the old guys there are time served and seasoned engineers. They look down on the kit builders, because the kit builders haven't built their steam train from scratch using metal leathes, etc etc etc. The thing is, my dad's kit built train not only looks better proportionally, but pulls more, due to the fact it has a lot more power. It is the same guage as theirs, 5 inch guage. So a mass produced item like our steamer, where all the parts are standardised and cut by CNC, has shown itself to be better then the engineers hand built, hand crafted machine. But this doesn't mean that everything done using computers is better.

Sorry Richard, you've lost me there. The only term I understood was the fretsaw. The only wood working I have done was more for building construction. Give me a chisel, a hammer and a saw and I can make you a fairly decent Mortis and Tenon joint. As I said, I wanted to know because the end pieces are simply amazing. It doesn't bother me if its done by hand or machine, I simply wanted to know. And I would have said WOW because if it had been done by hand, then the guy could teach people how to hand pierce wood.

Oh and with regards to tolerance. I am actually a very tolerant person. Not just because I have to be, but because I am. I am saying this because I am actually Jewish, and my religion largely makes me who I am. Judaism teaches us to be tolerent. Now, before anyone says anything about "Oh, now he's bringing religion into it" let me say this. I am tolerant of everyone, whatever their stance. I have friends, neighbours and work collueges of all religions, credances etc, and I get on with them very well. I have Gay friends, straight friends and bi friends. I tolerate everyone, and treat people with respect. What I don't tolerate is being spoken to like I am an idiot, or to be told that as a novice I should take whatever comments are given to me with humbleness. So I know intolerance, and disrespect, and I abhore it. Now the above might not be relevent, I'm sure it's probably not, but I felt that I should say it anyway. All I did was to ask a some simple questions. I only wanted simple, straight answers. I don't see why I am in the wrong to be offended with the quip about sawing down trees, killing the sheep and tanning their hides. I didn't ask about that, so why was it necessary for this to have been brought up. Yes, OK, Oldnikilby offered to let me come to his home to show me the instrument, which is very good of him. Had he just answered my other question by saying that the ends were done by Computer CNC, I wouldn't have been offended, and none of this would have occured. The above puts him in bad light, because it was just so unecessary. I admit that I can be brash, but I feel that the answers I have had have been rude, flippant and to be honest, have put me off asking any of you older players anything else. You have just put a new player off seeking advise from you, and I hope you are blooming well happy. There may be some friendlier players out there. If there are I would like to hear from you. And I do think that some of the attitudes about what instrument I should buy are snobby! What's actually so great about buying an instrument made many decades ago, as opposed to a new one. Ok, so the wood has had time to mellow with that age. Virtually every old instrument I have seen on Ebay, and even on the websites have seen better years. The restored ones might be clean, and have new leather, but the wood still looks like it has seen better days. I really can't see how I can justify spending £1500 upwards on an instrument that 1) I have no idea how its really been looked after. 2) Comes without any real garantee of quality - just because it's old doesn't mean its good. 3) What actually makes these things worth that much? I could buy a "new" motorcycle for this kind of money, and a bike is a much more justifiable item, as it would allow me to get to work faster, allow me to get places I couldn't normally get to, and best of all, allows me to get there quickly and cheaply. Like I have said. I am cancelling my membership. I may only be a youngster, but I obviously made a mistake of expecting good answers from you. this topic is closed.

It is relevent. I thank you for the offer, but I am going to have to say sorry, I am declining the offer. The question about how the ends are done is relevent because if I were to spend 3500 pounds, on anything, I would like to know how it is made. The reason I wanted to know is because if it was hand done, I would have said something along the lines of WOW!

I suppose that it is actually a difference in the age gap. Most of you are over 35. A lot of you are over 45. Maybe my Dad should come on here, and you lot can all talk to someone your own age.

Forget it. I don't see where he has actually said that he will let me use his concertina. Not that I would, even if it was offered. I'm not going to use someone elses concertina when 1) It's had time to become more valuable (both financially and sentimentally) and 2) If I were to damage it. I can that whatever I say will be turned around so that I am in the wrong. Don't bother to reply to this as I am now going to e-mail the admin to close my membership. There might be some helpful people on here. But all I have seen is that when I ask a question, I get a silly answer. Oh, and listing MY Qualifications doesn't make me a snob. Most older people complain about my generation not being well educated. Oh, another thing. I don't do humble, as this is the 21st century, not the 19th. If you want me to be humble, then you've got another thing coming. If I ask a question it is because I have thought about it, and that means that I like to get adult answers. But because I've only been a member for a few days, that means that when I get a silly answer and I complain, I am in the wrong. Oldnikilby did not say in that 1st reply that he would let me use his concertina. He said lets get together, which is something completely different. But whatever. I wish I hadn't bothered. Many thanks. Russell

But I suppose this is okay then? All I wanted to know, and if you read what I put, you'll see why I take offence to this, as would most people. I asked if the baeutiful ends on the blondie were hand pierced or machine cut. This is a good question, as I am not inclined to phone Mr. holmwood every time I want to ask him something. It's a waste of his time, and I doubt he would appreciate me doing so. To have the above as an answer is not right. the only part of that Oldnickilby needed to type was the very last line. The rest is sarcasm, and I don't appreciate it. I'm not stupid, I have had College level tuition. I hold 9 GCSE's of grade D and above, and I have an GNVQ Intermediate in Information Technology, passed with a Merit, and an AVCE Advanced in Information Communication Technology (ICT) which I passed with a CC grade. If you were the newbie, and I spoke to you in a sarcastic, flippant and frankly uneccesary manner, you would also feel angry and frustrated.

Fine then. I can see that whatever I do I'll be in the wrong. I'm sorry for wasting your time. Good day.

Yes but the difference is when I realised that I had been at fault I apologised.

Yes, well you could have just answered with a simple statement. You could have said "The ends are cut by computer". I made a mistake in my last post, where I was rude to Mr. Morse over a misunderstanding over a word he had used. There was no need to be sarcastic. If I had spoken to you in such a way, you would have told me to xxxx off, wouldn't you. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and as a novice, who has only been playing the concertina for a few days, I don't need people like you, who think they are being smart, to give flippant, silly answers. If I get banned from the concertina.net forums for this, then so be it. I have been told by one or two folk musicians that concertina players can actually be quite snobbish, due to the cost of a top quality concertinas as opposed to guitars, Bodhrains etc. When people like you talk in such a fashion, it is no wonder that other people think like this. The reason concertinas cost so much is becuase no one is actually prepared to pay to train an apprentace or two, so that others can learn how to make these intstruments under the guidance of professionals. The other reason is that most concertinas then end up either in a private collection, or in a Musuem. This means that 1) they are never played, and 2) Pushes the price up. I would love to learn how to make a concertina properly, as I have had a little experience with wood working both at school and at College. Granted this is mainly for Mortice and Tenon joints, but I enjoyed it immensly, as I like using my hands. Now if I were to start a company, I would have more than three people working there, I would also take out a large-ish loan, or get investors, for the capital to buy machines to do the repetative jobs. this would bring both the waiting time down and the price, which means that the instrument would probably become a little more mainstream again, as it would be more affordable, and easier to get hold of. Like I had said, I was going to go for the Stagi 48 key English, as it is good enough to learn on, but even that had a months wait. So I then went for the cheaper Jack, and my father bought a jackie. So if anyone else feels like leaving a sarcastic reply, please don't. I only want people who are prepared to answer me in an intelligent, decent manner. Thank you.

Hi there again everyone. Practicing everyday, getting a little better as the time passes. My father and I have also had a look at Holmwood, having had a CD and the price (£3525). We would like to know if anyone has actually bought a Holmwood concertina, and if someone has, please can they post a reply to: 1) Tell us what they are like 2) If you have a sound file you can post (or e-mail) 3) How much they weigh - These things look huge, they have wrist straps and a thumb strap! 4) If Mr Holmwood himself is on here, I don't know, but if he is, can he (or an owner who knows) tell me if the absolutely beautiful ends are done by hand or machine? Like wow, I know I said I didn't want to spend this sort of money on a Wheatstone, or even on an instrument, but if you haven't seen a Holmwood you are missing out. They sent us a CD with their "Blondie" model, and I must say that it is as beautiful as Suttners and Edgleys concertinas. The only worry is that it looks HUGE! I mean, it must be big if it needs a wrist strap as well! Please reply with postings aimed at a concertina novice. I've only had my Jack a few days.

Both Jim.

Thanks everyone... I had a look on that list of events/clubs etc and there isn't one in London, so can I assume this means that there are no clubs in London. Anyway. I would like to know if anyone knows where I can get Drunken Sailor. Classic.

lol Jim.. Not quite Waistcoats and Kneebritches, well maybe a hundred years or so ago. Knickers and vests are undergarments. But I get your point.. Tomatoes etc. With regards to holding the instrument. It probably just depends on the size of your hands, finger length etc. For example, most of the worlds leading guitarists (greatest, most talented, whatever you want to call them) have long, thin "piano" fingers.

Sorry Richard... I would have preferred it if you had used the second version of your asnwer originally. Anyway, it's water under the bridge. thanks also for explaining your views on Stagi's, but I think Hobgoblin make sure it is in tune etc before they hand it over. When I went the other day there was a guy downstairs sorting out an instrument. Sorry about before.... Right, with regards to m3838 and others. Many thanks. This has clarified it quite a bit. So basically, if I want to play Classical, Folk, and (your all going to gasp) play the rythem for some "rock" songs, then I would need what I have gone for, the English. So, my idea about a different type of hand strap would be to use a sort of Capo system (if anyone doesn't play guitar, a Capo is a metal contraption that locks around the neck, allowing you to play notes differently) If I could build it myself, and if I were able to also build my own 'tina, then I would be able to see if it would work. Basically, I would make it out of Aluminium, which is strong and light, and can be painted. It would be a small block like on the Anglo, with a piece of soft rubber (or covered foam) glued to it (or part of the design) for your palm to rest on. The top piece would be similar (with another piece of rubber or covered foam), but would have to Locking bolts (with the nuts in the bottom piece) So you could adjust it to your hands width. It would look a little like this. -------------------------- | | | |~~~~~~~~~~~ |___| |----|--------------------- |__________________| So you basically loosen or tighten the bolts untill you can slide your hands in and out, but they don't slide out of it. I reckon this would also give you more pulling and pushing strength on the bellows, as I find the current system to be a pain in the hands (I would say butt, but that doesn't do the pulling/pushing lol) So that is my idea. Oh it didn't come out very well. Something like this.

Hi there. thanks. I was looking into buying a Vintage concertina, but in my opinion if I were to spend the serious amount of cash that these things go for, to be honest I would rather buy a new one, or one off, and wait for it. No offence, the old concertinas may be better, but at the end of the day I have always found problems with anything I have bought second hand. This covers guitars and motorcycles. These Vintage instruments are never in the best of nick, even some of the "restored" ones look a little worse for wear, and I wouldn't want to spend money on something old to take it somewhere and risk the chance of it getting damaged or worse, stolen. To find that I can't get another one because they are either all in museums, or are owned by rich people who collect them to have them, not play them. With regards to G. Wakker... The concertinas are not to my liking... I listened to the "better" baritone and the sound file on the concertina connection page has a few too many bad notes in it, but I don't really like them. I'll learn on the Wakker JACK and Jackie, then when I can afford to buy a serious instrument, I will look at my options. And many thanks to Samantha for the previos posting. Only problem is is that my ability to read music from a sheet is comparable to asking a fly about seeing through only two eyes! cheers all