chris

Hi on ebay there is a Joseph Scates with an action that sounds very similar, from the description, to the one that Wim Wakker was using. This Scates would pre date 1850 and is apparently similar to a Nickolds action . I'm not sure what constitutes traditional but I would have thought this fitted the bill chris

Hi Jim,hi Wes hi Theo It is the same instrument. The Papers with the sharp corners are the ones as fitted to the instument when I bought it some 20 years ago. David Leese voiced an opinion that the bellows he replaced were'well made'and may have been Wheatstone.-not sure tho'. The thumb straps were replaced by Hobgoblin (A.C.Norman) some 15+years ago (that is pencilled inside the concertina) unfortunately they faded over the years and so they were replaced (to do with aesthetics rather than wear) at the same time that the bellows were replaced (Jan 2006) by David Leese. With regard to the 'original' papers We (myself and my wife-who claims she now knows more about concertinas, and makers, than she ever thought possible or desirable since I started to try to find out more about Scates etc) noted that Joseph Scates father was a stationer and this made us wonder whether they might have, originally, been 'end papers' for books that Scates may have used for cost saving on manufacture when setting up. With reference to the action I hadn't associated the phrase 'double fulcrum action' with the Scates but it does make sense doesn't it? thanks for the interest best wishes chris

Hi apologies for the duplication of posts, kindly removed by Robert Gaskin -thank you. apologies for the length of time the photos take to download it will be apparent that I am not very computer literate! being somewhat old fashioned and not used to 'Zips' Should anyone wish to have a quicker!! look at the photos they are on this site http://uk.msnusers.com/chrisphotosconcertinas Maybe!! I don't say this with a whole lot of confidence thanks for interest already shown chris

Hi further to a posting I made a while ago, trying to ascertain actual maker, it was suggested that a look at the action may be of benefit, I have got my concertina back from having new bellows, thumb straps, and a re-tune (all nicely done by David Leese). To reiterate my first posting- my understanding is that Joseph Scates didn't always make his own concertinas (who did?) and I was wondering whether this was one of his. I understand that it is not Wheatstone, Lachenal, or Jefferies From David Leese and probably not Nockolds?. I wonder if anyone recognises the type of action as being used by any other makers. The concertina is amboyna ended with bone/ivory buttons. Prior to its new bellows it had 4 folds, and is brass reeded it has a serial number 226 and an address label '28, Westmoreland Street Dublin' (suggesting 1850/1 I think). I also wonder if anyone recognises the bellows papers from any other maker. Does anyone know what happened to Joseph Scates after 1866? look forward to comments/thoughts etc. Chris

Chris, Wheatstone 226 would have been a 32 key instrument. It seems like yours may have been an original Scates, since Wheatstone sold a batch of Scates instruments, with serials as high as 378, and including 236, on 23 Feb 1853 (ledger C1048 page 025). But as I said earlier, you would need to indentify its features before you could be sure of manufacturer. Wes thanks for the info. Can't check the mechanism just yet as the box is on its way to have a new set of bellows fitted but I have asked that when it is tuned that the mechanism is looked at with a view to identification of type. I guess what I hoped was that Leo Offer might be known as a worker/assembler for one of the concertina builders therefore giving a more positive manufacturer life couldn't be that simple tho.

Hi Wes not quite sure how this reply set up works so there may be more duplicates. I accept your point re maker,repairer,previous owner and had considered this but wondered whether anyone knew of him and could therefore clarify this point. The concertina has a 28, Westmoreland Street Dublin label and has a serial no 226 the address would seem to suggest 1851 or maybe 1850 as a year of manufacture. it has been suggested that it was made by Wheatstone but this was along time ago and I don't know/remember on what basis this suggestion was made. thanks for your interest chris

Hi I have a Joseph Scates concertina (Amboyna,Bone buttons Burgundy bellows) during an 'internal' examination i noticed a signature (Leo Offer) on one end. Whilst I am aware that at least 2 well known makers made for Scates I wonder if anyone has come across the above signature in a known maker thus helping to identify the actual maker of the box. Would appreciate any assistance thanks chris