Kathryn Wheeler
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Posts posted by Kathryn Wheeler
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16 hours ago, wes williams said:
Just listen to Kitty Hayes play tunes in F on a C/G and fit in B rather than Bb.
I'm imagining that would sound marvellously modal
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19 hours ago, Leah Velleman said:
Occasionally I see someone say "Of course, you can play D Major tunes on a 20-button C/G — you just have to avoid the C-sharps." The idea being, well, some tunes don't have them, sometimes you can skip them, sometimes you can edit the tune, etc.
I'd be curious — does anyone here actually play that way? How's it working for you? Have you learned anything from experience about when to attempt it or how to do it well?
(If you don't play this way and think it's stupid/untraditional/annoying/a bad investment/a waste of time/a heresy against the One True Fingering System, please have that fight in another thread! There are plenty!)
Hi Leah!
I don't just play the melody without the C sharps in - there are various strategies that I'd use.
It's very dependent on tune, what I do, and very dependent on the context within which the Csharps occur.
Also what I do in sessions and/or accompanying others may well be different to when I'm choosing to play on my own.
I think having a good grasp of the underlying harmony (the important notes in the melody in each bar) will really help, whatever you do. This is so that, even if you are not able to play the melody, you can play a note that will go well with it. If you're not sure about that, find a piece of music with chords written on it. Or look for the important notes in each bar. Or just try things and see how they sound! Recording yourself is always useful.
- So, you could come up with a harmony part/countermelody for that section:
Here's an example: the melody does a run of AB C#D E. Basically this run is describing the chord of A major (A C# E) - the other two notes are just filler! You could just play A E E (with the middle E coinciding with the melody's C#). Or you could start that section on the top E and play E, F# E E (with the Fsharp coinciding with the D in the melody) or E AB A A ... This is more complex to write down than to demonstrate. Maybe I need to do a video on this sometime! The more you do this, the more you'll recognise the same patterns in melodies and know a little workaround.
Another example C# D E - you could start on the A above and descend: A F# E. Or if the underlying harmony is a A7 (as you're going back to a D chord next) you could do A G F#.
It might be an idea to take a tune you know that is in D major with C sharps and work some alternatives out when you're not in a session and doing this stuff on the fly.
- If playing with others, you could do some kind of rhythmic accompaniment instead of playing the melody. e.g. Open chords (with no third in) are a good option when you can't play a C# and want to play a chord of A. Just play A and E together.
I'll probably remember a few other things no doubt later!
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That’s a great image and thankyou!
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3 hours ago, John Wild said:
And thanks for the wonderful smile at the finish.
I usually can’t resist haha! -
13 hours ago, CrP said:
That delightful excursion just transformed my evening. Thanks for your ever-imaginative musicality and inventiveness.
You’re most welcome and that’s lovely to hear! -
I’m so glad to hear that, thankyou
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This is such an unusual and gorgeous sounding traditional tune, with a fascinating history. Makes for a fun time exploring what can be done on the anglo with it!
For once this isn’t a tune of my own, but I couldn’t resist adding plenty of new stuff inspired by it in there!
If you watch to the end there’s a little dance tune based on it that’d do well on its own, too.
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Yes it’s so handy to have something easy to pick up after a while, to remind yourself how you played a tricky or otherwise ambiguous passage!
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On 11/3/2023 at 1:50 PM, Mikefule said:
I have always liked the idea of getting the most out of the minimum in many areas of life. In the context of the Anglo, this means that I developed a fascination with what could be achieved on the basic 20 button layout. The simple 2-row Anglo is at the heart of what the Anglo is all about. It imposes limitations and challenges, but these very limitations are what gives it its distinctive sound.
Undeniably, more buttons will give you more versatility, and some tunes simply will not fit on a 20b. However, to my mind, the extra versatility of 30b or more buttons must be balanced against the purity and simplicity of the 20b.
Thank you for reviewing this instrument!
Unsurprisingly, I share your outlook, here! And I also prefer wooden ends
I also like playing in G higher than the melodeons on a C/G 20 when playing morris music.
The Marcus instruments I have played have always felt so immediately playable and I obviously felt so comfortable with them that I instantly felt like improvising. Tunes would just fall out of them. The Traveller was surprisingly loud and very much liked playing Morris-like tunes!
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Yes, it all depends on the context of the music (and also the key) and whether you're wanting to do something else as well in the left hand (e.g. if you want play accompaniments/harmonies). As long as it doesn't feel awkward/disrupts the flow of what you're doing, there's no harm in having a preference. It can be nice to use alternatives to add variety too (e.g. first time through nice and flowing, second time alternating push and pull etc)
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Sounds good - I hope you find something that suits your needs!
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On 8/22/2023 at 8:18 PM, Peter Smith said:
I should have mentioned that I had a chance to play Andrew Norman's bass anglo, when visiting him a while back. It sounded just like it does on his video an dseemed quite responsive - though I'm no expert!
Peter
Aah yes, good fun wasn’t it!
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This week I had the pleasure of trying a bass anglo by Andrew Norman - I was really delighted with how responsive it was and also how natural it felt to play, coming from a standard anglo of normal, higher pitch. What luscious deep beautiful chords were possible
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Hi John, I’ve messaged you, if you’re still interested
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They certainly do!
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“Folks can devise a system that suits them”
Exactly! That’s what I’m doing
And it is only for tricky little passages where I need to remember what I’m doing because I’m using non obvious (to me) fingering. I have come up with a way and it looks like it’s fine.
When I say non obvious I mean it feels really natural and right for that context. Bur when I examine what I did I realise that I need to make a note of it because I reckon I won’t remember if I haven’t practiced it in or haven’t played the piece for a while.
Thanks for all your replies, especially to those of you that have shared what works for you.
My main point of posting was to just make sure there wasn’t this universally known way of doing it that I hadn’t come across because I write my own music. And because someone else might suggest a nifty way.
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What’s weird is that I’m ok with the index being 1 but, nope, the middle is rebelling at being 2 and the pinkie just has to be 5. The ring finger is a bit confused 😆
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3 hours ago, Leah Velleman said:
Bertram Levy, in his bandoneon-inspired book about fiddle tunes, uses this kind of intense system where roman numerals tell you which row, combinations like L13 tell you which hand and button, the letters C and A stand for, uh, push and pull in Spanish, and little bold numbers tell you which finger. Also, he numbers fingers like a piano player, so the index finger is 2, not 1.
I never really got my head around it, but I imagine if I ever did it would be useful. (That goes for the whole book, honestly.)
I did wonder whether to number fingers like a pianist or not - I reckoned not because I don’t use the thumbs except on the air button of course. But that said, i guess I have too much keyboard playing in my background because it just feels weird to call my middle finger 2!
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It is lovely to develop your own way of relating to an instrument, yes.
I still like to write things down though, not only because I get asked for dots and people ask how particular bits are played but because it’s really nice for me to have - and if I forget some details in future I’ve got it there.
So if anyone else has any nifty ways of clearly showing finger choices without them getting confused with numbering for buttons that’d be interesting!
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42 minutes ago, Clive Thorne said:
I play a melodic english style, and contrary to what most people imply or state above I hardly ever consciously think about which finger to use, and consequently have no "Button X" means "Finger Y" rule. It all depends on what notes precede and follow the one(s) I'm playing. Obviously as a general rule the bigger fingers tend to play the notes nearer the chin and the little fingers tend to play the ones nearest the feet, but beyond that it's a case of what fingers are available in the required vicinity.
Quite possibly it would fall to pieces if I were to try Irish trad type tunes & speeds.
Yes, I’m finding that you develop in built ways of playing certain runs or common figures, often things that occur in scales and arpeggios. Once I’ve worked out a way, I then find these patterns occur again and I no longer have to consciously think.
I’m currently trying something with more buttons so it is yet to become second nature.
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3 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:
I'm pretty sure that it is (or used to be) the case that 'Country Dancing' was one of the options available in the Physical Education syllabus in some Scottish schools, so, folks used to take that option, and knew the dances. As a Sassenach who hadn't had this opportunity, I was completely stuffed. Even though I 'knew' quite a few of the dances, I 'needed' a caller to give the 'prompts'...
When we (occasionally) get the audience up to join in a social dance at the end of one of our Morris dance-outs, we restrict ourselves to Circassian Circle (and occasionally Abram), and make sure that the dancers are heavily salted with our own dancers...
My mum used to teach primary age school children country dancing during lesson time and this was in England in the 70s-90s. And it wasn’t just her school - they’d meet up periodically with other schools to have an afternoon of dancing.
Whilst out and about watching or doing dancing (border Morris) I’ve heard some lovely wistful comments from people who had done this as children in school including some very burly lads to their mates, which is great!
I didn’t have this in our school though and I was in primary in this period, so maybe it wasn’t all schools! It wasn’t until I went to uni that I came across dancing societies (I don’t remember country dancing or Morris in Cambridge then but maybe it existed - but did remember going to some Scottish ceilidh dancing. Some people there were terribly serious about it and probably did all sorts of more serious Scottish dancing. I gave up because there’d always be some dreaded dancers you’d see coming who’d outdo each other in how hard they could whirl you round or grab your hand. Ugh!! 😆
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7 hours ago, AndrewCollins said:
Yes, I only use this occasionally.
I find it helpful for reminding myself of good-but-not-obvious fingerings I may have worked out for a semi-forgotten tune !
Yes, this!
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As I usually play music that had more than one part going on at any one time, I’m finding that I am needing to not necessarily use the most ideal finger for buttons more than I might, say, if I was playing single line melody. It’s not all the time that I’d need to notate this, just the odd tricky bit here and there.
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And yes it is occasionally isn’t it! But I also get asked how I’d play certain things so in those circumstances I want to notate more than I would for personal use.
Its handy cos I might forget with the passage of time what I’ve done in some bits of an old tune!
"Just avoid the C-sharps"
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted · Edited by Kathryn Wheeler
I wasn’t able to earlier but now have and there are so few of those notes she substituted, that they sound like a bit of added spice here and there
I do love that she’s using what she has to hand to make music