m3838

It's been a while, since I heard about Klavarscribo notation, but recently, thinking of teaching my mom piano to give her something to wake up for, I finally looked at it in depth. Wow! What a great invention. I don't play piano, but with Klavarscribo I sat down and in an hour was slowly pounding two carols with both hands. It claims that the system is good for all instruments, but it was designed specifically for the keyboard, and as such it's superb! Anybody else has fiddled with the system?

1. Bandoneon reeds will rust when you'll blow on them. You'll need brass or stainless steel. Which means right there your idea is a no-go. 2. You can't have a harmonica sounding like a bandoneon. The reeds don't make this much difference, it's the body/material of the instrument that give character to the sound. 3. All of the above (and much more) is the reason why all styles of harmonicas are almost extinct except 10 hole with single brass reeds. It's the bending, leading to expression, that is the foundation of it's popularity. 4. Keep in mind also, that harmonica players change reed plates pretty much after each energetic performance, so the reed plates must be affordable. The secret of playing of a harmonica is not the reeds, it's the developing open cavity and strength of your chest and throat muscles, much like singing and it takes time. Not everybody is blessed with the potential, no matter how much you train. All of this need to be carefully thought of.

It is alive. You are incorrect about the pop scene. That pop star was looking hard for an accordion player, and when he finally found the right one, immediately he got at least 3 mega hits. Another group comes to mind, Fyodor Chistjakov with his button accordion, "Group Zero". Mega star. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1bHG3wDZ8 But you got it right about the lack of any shyness. Hmm, especially among the russian rock scene. You'd with they had some.

Decided to help you out, as much of the search is in Russian: https://youtu.be/x3uGaZ1ayPolooks like Piazzola https://youtu.be/-GiAq9eei_Yparty in Osetiya https://youtu.be/Nc4g3Bk4Z5o diatonic osetian accordion And finally... Russian poppy-super-pop with some of the best accordion solo https://youtu.be/lTENrXT4hqk

Hmm. First, Germany comes to mind when I hear the word "accordion", then of course France and Switzerland, and last, but not least, Russian hemisphere, with Osetia, Georgia and of course, Azerbyjan. Azerbyjany accordion scene is super-puper alive and well. There is no way to argue the styles that people are used to. There are physics, and there are the ways to override them. To me - if you spend effort to go against the nature, I can't say more than I already said, it's time for me to keep on practicing and showing you my progress, if the latter will occure at all.

Hmm. Seems to me you simply crush ahead with the melody. Now I understand where you come from. My observations: You are only half way through the music, you learned the notes, but then stopped. I guess you like it this way and it's not my job to teach anyone, except myself. OK, thanks for the interesing discussion.

All good points. I'd just add that I'm not dismissing anyone's style and hahbits but trying analize it from the point of view of my personal experiences of tennis elbow treatment (6 months) and recent violin accident, when I didn't applied proper technique and overplayed my arm so badly I had to abandon the violin for good. That year and a half of my lessons let me to fall in love with the instrument and now I'm barred from it because of my own stupidity. So analizing the problems with the EC, small, portable and convenient, I came to certain conclusions, much to my surprise. 1. fanning bellows 2. necessity of some sort of handle 3. single note preference to chordal The last one is the result of much listening and is a total reversal of my earlier point of view. But enough about me. I would disagree with the statement that bandoneon players shy from learning the push layout. It's not true. They do play on the push as well. No, it's the ease, with which the bellows fall apart by themselves, that helps with the expressiveness by taking the strain off the arms, and often it's the difference between music and noise. Accordion players do the same, accents on the draw. Which is useful for EC players.

Very good points. I'd add that as a result no new improvements for the EC are thought of and implemented. So the discussion about the "new" ergonomic handles is welcome. Perhaps the handle as they are presented are in need of much more thought, but outright dismissal is not even funny. I'd disagree with you about accordions. It's a somewhat ethno/geo-centric point of view. Accordions are pretty hot in most of the world except, perhaps, US, thanks to Lawrence Welk show, which portraited it in such an outdated view. But in those places, where the show is unknown, there is no stigma. Funning the bellows is a standart in all professional playing, because it provides needed stability and rigidity to the otherwise wobbly instrument. Read all the accordion tutors, talk to teachers or professional players, you'll get the same answer. lack of proper concertina technique I'd attribute to the lack of professional school, producing top notch music. But all of these hase been discussed in the past, I'm surprised these issues are still being pondered at. Coming back to forum seems like coming back in time.

1. To my opinion Concertina has no need for 56 keys. Waste of money, unless you have special patent to make those squeakers respond and sound well. However, with taller palm rests and more angle the reach is better, but ... for using thumbs as a pivoting center for extended keyboard your point is correct. 2. Below is some heavy harmonizing piece, using my Tenor Lachenal. On the knee, fanning. Never felt the need to extend the bellows. Do believe that if you extend your bellows the way you describe to have enough air, your technique is incorrect. https://app.box.com/shared/4qay98fit2

Neck pain in later life?, depends on the strap, It is no different to hanging a heavy SLR Camera round your neck. I have never met anyone my age who can attribute an arthritic neck to a concertina on a strap when a lad. However you are right that there is a risk so if I am asked to fit neck strap mountings I tend to suggest using a broad camera strap. Dave Tell you what, the modality of body work that I studied is called "Neuro-muscular Reprogramming". It's a difficult approach, the top notch. I didn't master it, but was on the way. When you see a client, you begin asking questions and guess what? Many current problems do seem to stem from events long gone. Neck is unfortunately the most common cause for people to seek attention of a body worker, often after years of medical treatments. I have never seen a case, not involving the neck, my luck, as neck is the most difficult to work with. You can experience lots of problem: breathing, eye sight, jaw pain etc. stemming from your concertina neck strap.

All right then. Here is my final cut for the "Petite Fleur" by Sidney Becket. https://youtu.be/p0-MjYvigXk

You reiterate this point but it has little basis. Dynamics have nothing to do with the stretch of the bellows. It's the attack and variation of pressure. For good phrasing one "has" to do meaningful bellows reversals pretty much on every measure or within measures. And this work is what wears me out. No teacher, I'm on my own, following some clarinet players, mimicking their breathing. The art is not to stretch the bellows, reserve the air and use reversals for rhythm. I was following some russian site where the discussion was about traditional bellows reversals. One of the points is to reverse the bellows not at the beginning of new measure, but at the last note of the measure. It gives uplift and connects the measures better. But again, these are just talks, doing it way harder, requires complete re-wiring of the brain. Where can I see/hear your playing? I'd be very interested to study your bellows technique.

Everything is great, except neck straps (unless you want to suffer terrible pain later in life) and note against fanning out the bellows. Fanning will safe your bellows folds in like new condition for years with fanning.

Well, it is possible to fix them up to a playable level. It's not going to be anything special. Their purpose is to either be a starter instrument to learn the keyboard to be able to test a good one later on, or be an instrument of choice for an advanced player if that player wants the sound. And I personally prefer that sound, it has lots of character. But you need to get good at fixing them.

It was with a heavy heart that I read about stiff CC bellows. When I ordered my Jack, then exchanged it with the Jackie, the bellows were very good. Easy to stretch, airtight, not sticky at all. My several expensive instruments from CC and the Button Box were not up to the claim: the main problem with those instruments were the reeds with uneven response, some louder, some quieter, some full bodied, some squeaky and metallic. Jackie is definitely heavier, which for me was not a problem. Albion was small and light and it felt a bit weird. Pinkey rest is totally useless, I agree. I took them off. Don, when you talk about bellows in connection with the reed response, I lost you. But I think you are saying that there is no room for improvement for a "good" instrument, which simply cannot be true. Wolf, it is my greatest frustration with the concertina, for which I abandoned it for so many years, that I do think that EC is mostly unexpressive. Osipov is a great virtuoso, Danny the "Rat Face", if you remember him, was (is) a very good performer on EC, trying his best to give all his heart to the sound. But vast majority of us is not that successful. My hopes are that the grip will contribute to overcoming this unfortunate slip of a design. If not, I'll disappear again.

The real point is when you get this type of entry level into entry level, it's a good idea to bring it to the shop and fix it up. So for 50% extra it may become what it claims.

That seems to be the major opposition: Imprecision of the argument. Jackie is a fine instrument. It's main problem is the reeds that are not as fast, but it's never a problem with me, as I don't consider fast playing been a good one. Jackie definitely can be compared with all other ECs by holding principle. Which is (to me) the main obstruction to achieving the expressiveness of a musical instrument. But wait and let me demonstrate it.

Not sure if I understand your comment, Wolf. Jackie is a beginner's instrument only in respect of it's presumably flimsy construction, that may not (?) hold under the pressure of rigorous playing. In my case high C# peg is coming off it's nest, causing the button to get stuck in open position. In all other respects Jackie is just as equal, if not better than many "true" concertinas. The "toyness' of Jackie is of the same kind as the "toyness" of all other ECs, and stems from underdeveloped holding system. Those who like things the way they are, may stay with them as they like. But the consequences must be kept in mind. Among them high risk of injury and compromised dynamics. While EC fingering system is ingenious, the holding is underdesigned. Now that I made an improvement, my playing is vastly better than before and the stress on my hands is way lower. I have so much more power over bellows with so little effort that I need to be mindful not to choke the reeds. As before I was getting tired and my playing was lacking everything. Give me a few more weeks to practice and I will record a video so you can see the improvement.

Ah! Exactly! Remember Goran's ideas? I made myself a pair of wrist rests with the wrist straps and immediately outgrew my Jackie! It is not able to follow my needs now, reeds are chocking etc. I have way too much power over the bellows and super stability of the instrument. I'm in total tonal control! Now I started to work on the tone, rhythm, nuances and it's a lot of work. But before, with just the thumb strap, the instrument was a toy, abandoned for many ears. Actually I'm beginning to understand why EC was out of circulation among the professional musicians. It is relatively inexpressive without modification.

Well, I didn't say "all" are bad, I guess you were more lucky then me. But one thing is true ( I think): If one is not familiar with the fixing of the concertina, one is better stay away from those "italian" instruments. Way back, when top of my head was protected by the thicket, I fixed two or three East German concertinas and was rather happy with them. Chinese have bettered their bellows quality a bit. But to answer original question: from my personal experience - yes, they are this bad. I have never held brand new 20 button "Hohner" that didn't have some or all of the listed problems. Wouldn't recommend to a beginner.

Here's the deal. Chinese made concertinas typically don't play out of the box. Some rare exceptions. They come with a bucket of problems: 1. valves are not glued and fall off after several minutes (or seconds) of playing 2. out of tune 3. buttons stick 4. bellows are not sealed and are very stiff. 5. reed plates are poorly waxed and can fall out after some playing 6. wax is poured on the reeds 7. screws holding the ends are sloppily screwed in and the wood is trashed. After fiddling with Chinese made concertina and upon fixing all of the abovementioned problems one finds it has very pleasant tone and bellows capacity. "True" concertinas usually have nasal tone that may not sound good in harmony. Chinese concertinas have accordion reeds and construction, leading to accordionish sound, especially good for chordal playing. You will also find that chinese reeds don't start well and you can't play faster tunes or quick notes. In addition I may note that your Lachenal is either low end or not in it's top condition. If you fiddle with it and airtighten the bellows, check valves, set the reeds - I'm sure even the entry level Lachenal will far outdo that chinese exemplare.

What's the fiddle approach?

I'm currently very stressed for time, so I'll save my comments on the actual topic for a bit later, but I'll mention that about 1½ weeks ago I spent a pleasant afternoon with Göran (with an "n"), and we discussed various technical issues, including and especially the fact that different "solutions" seem to work "best" for different individuals. By the way, I lost contact with Goran (no idea how to make the two dots above the "O"). Can you ask to send me his contact address? I would like to show him the handles and discuss a few things. Thanks. My email is chocholosa@gmail.com

If you work with the bellows, the handles are the way to go, regardless of the weight of the instrument. But one has to experiment, lots depend on the shape of the ends, length of the screws and length of their thread (especially). If the ends are not flat and don't provide for a firm sitting for the handles - lost case, unless one comes up with yet another idea. I definitely wouldn't drill into $$$ instrument. My Tenor Lachenal will sit unmodified (for now). Fanning of the bellows comes from the attempt to save the folds from wear while keeping the instrument firm. I learned it from my accordion teachers and Astor Piazzola, btw. Using the pinky rest has always been a hidden art for me. I'd much rather use the pinky for playing.\ Oh, so I provided you with the link to my channel? Hmm. Lots of stuff there, for sure. My entire teaching career.

Hmm. Try this now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df0QSRH9Xsg