david_boveri

I would leave the poor bellows alone.... you could end up making something very gaudy that ruins your antique. if you feel the need to put bellows paper on, at least buy some traditional papers that match the make and period of your instrument. think of how long it has survived in such good condition and how hard it will be for some poor repairman to undo your changes in 50 years.

i'm glad that you found a group of people who like to have the dots! it's all about playing music and having fun. Quite. BTW David been watching for a ballpark figure for Noel's school? Ref earlier : BTW with the pound getting more dollars at the moment. it could be more interesting. How much did the school cost (without travel costs) incl. food and bed? etc Tks I meant to send you a PM--sorry that I did not! Check your inbox.

There's one sample here and someone put a bunch of cuts from the CD on YouTube. unbelievable! it's everything i ever wanted piping to be... thanks!

as my profile pic suggests, i was originally a flute player. i started on the silver (boehm) flute when i was 11, always with the intention of learning irish music. i added the whistle soon after and then the concertina when i was about 17. after that came the irish flute, at 19, as well as some dabbling in piano. i can play scratchy, out of tune and out of time violin (but never in public). if you put a set of uilleann pipes in my hands i could squeeze out some simple jigs and airs, as long a you don't ask me to turn the drones on. i don't considered myself much of a bodhran player, but my grandfather taught me to play as a child; i can keep time and won't trample on the tune. lately most of my focus has been on concertina, but i have finally learned how to do piano accompaniment in the irish style. you're not likely to catch me playing the flute or whistle in sessions, even though i suppose i am just as proficient (or bad... take your pick) at them as the concertina. EDIT: looking at dan's response above, it reminds me: when i was in high school i played the contrabass clarinet as my main instrument for 2 years in the school band.

thanks for the link. any idea where i can hear snippets of the 12 tracks of him playing that they reference?

i figured that might be the case, in regards to leading tones. i don't have any recordings on hand with leading tones, then. but, in the key of G, i definitely as a rule resolve pull F# into push G, etc. in the key of D, i do use push C# to resolve to push D, but i can't think of any other key where i match up the leading tone with the tonic. can you give me a rough time stamp for my middle finger being too high? i only ask because there is something strange about how my fingers move. they do not move entirely separately, especially the middle fingers. this may sound hard to believe, but entirely true: if i relax one hand and move the other into and out of a fist, there is a "bleed over" of movement into the other hand. i can inhibit this bleed-over movement, but that requires increased tension. i once asked a neuroscientist about it, and besides being completely disinterested, he said he had never heard or seen anything like it and he'd have to cut me open to figure out why. so, if i am moving my left hand during these moments you noticed, then i can surely work on it some more. if i am moving my right hand also while this is happening, i can't really stop it. overall, i have since the recording developed a more rounded finger posture to counteract this tendency. i still use a flat finger for tone control, but try to not make it my default position. i agree with that. i do not create the staccato with the bellows changes, but i was saying that because of my staccato style of tone control, the impact of bellows changes for melody notes is kind of moot. i would like to add that another important consideration of staccato playing is that not only should you leave a gap between the notes, but you should apply pressure to the bellows while no button is pressed, to add that extra bit of clip to the notes.

i'm glad that you found a group of people who like to have the dots! it's all about playing music and having fun.

that is an interesting rule. what is the reason for it? it seems awfully restricting... Hi David well of course every rule is meant to be broken . Forgive me, I am going to be a bit technical to answer your question so I hope I can make it clear. A leading tone (the major 7th) is only a half step away from the tonic and coupled with the third of a dominant chord becomes a tritone which is very unstable. This means it wants to go somewhere and generally wants to resolve to the tonic. For example in the key of C the dominant chord is G7 has the B as the third and the F as the 7th. This is a tritone and wants to resolve by half steps - that is the F to the E and the B to a C which are the notes of the C chord or tonic. If you change bellows as you move from the leading tone to the tonic, , it interrupts the flow or intention of the phrase as you reenergize the column of air in the bellows. . Sure you can play it with a change but it is more musical if you try to keep them in the same direction. My point being that if you are learning scales and phrase in the different keys, you will be better off starting off by following the simple pairing principle on the leading tone to the tonic and break the rules when necessary. . Subtle, sure, but music is all about the details Bertram perhaps it is because i am an irish musician, but i find that i find the characteristic sound and response of a given reed to be more important than the bellows direction. i could maybe see where your rule may be useful in heavily chorded playing, but i have trouble understanding it's usefulness in melodic lines alone. i was taught to play in the staccato style, which means that my notes tend to have more space between them than not. this lessens the effect of bellows direction and change in many situations. from your technical explanation, to my ears it sounds like saying that one must never change bow directions or strings on the violin between a leading tone and tonic, because that would require you to reenergize the string. again, maybe i have trouble seeing the utility of it because to me articulation is more important than avoiding bellows changes, but at any rate i thought perhaps you might better understand my position if you saw a video of me playing. perhaps it might be hard to judge the quality of my phrasing in isolation from my friend's fiddle playing. however, i wonder if you could tell me: do you think my phrasing suffers because i almost always resolve the tonic on a bellows change? http://youtu.be/u_NXCYUtpQ8 i have definitely tried out what you describe many times and found that, at least for my style of playing, it tends to make the phrases seem flat and lifeless. there are instances where i do play the leading tone into the tonic in the same direction for reasons of tone color, but i find that it requires more work to even the sound out. i think that perhaps i am missing out on something, or it may be the difference between legato and staccato playing styles. i am definitely interested in your take on playing and scales, and appreciate your time to make a technical response.

that is an interesting rule. what is the reason for it? it seems awfully restricting...

There are times of course in sessions where the tune being played is new to you,a different key to what you usually play ,or a different version to the tune you know.It takes you a little while to sort these things out, so it is usual to either not play at all, or work through it quietly so as not to distract other players.This may require you to put the concertina up to your ear to ensure you have the right notes and then wait for an A or B part to come in. Do not join the tune half way through. Al i agree that it is best not to trample on the tune, but i don't consider it a rule that you shouldn't join a tune halfway through. there are times when it is appropriate to wait to join in and times when it is not. all the best players i know do it both ways. it all depends on your confidence in the tune (especially in another key), the sound that you will be contributing to (one solo player versus a large group) and the nature of the session overall. for example, if you are at a gig-like session and someone goes into a tune that you need a moment to get grounded in, it might be best to wait for a repeat, especially since it will sound like it is planned.

glad to hear you learn by ear! you should definitely watch yourself in a mirror to get a good idea of your own habits. some players wouldn't be caught dead resting their pinkie, but i am definitely a pinkie rester on both hands! i also rest my ring finger and sometimes you might catch me resting my middle finger, but these fingers can be difficult, as it sometimes requires you to place your fingers between buttons. i don't really have a good video showing my idiosyncratic and sporadic finger resting, but if you watch my video, you'll minimally be able to see me doing it on the last notes of the set, where i use my fingers to brace a lift-up of the concertina. off-the-knee playing can be quite complex, so i might recommend to stay against it, even though i teach it to my students when i can. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NXCYUtpQ8

the biggest thing in irish sessions is that you have to know your music by memory. if you know only one set, or one tune, we are very welcoming. if you pretend to know sets by pulling out sheet music, some people might not be very welcoming. the way that most of us have become "fully fledged players" is by sitting quietly in the circle at our sessions week after week, until our one set naturally blossoms into a whole repertoire through immersion. you have to practice at home, yes, but most of the tunes that i play at sessions are tunes i learned in sessions and never studied at home. all the tunes i work on at home (for hours every day) are tunes that no one else seems to know You are fortunate to have hours a day to practise. Following your encouragement to others to sign up for Noel Hill Irish Music Schools, (which some this side of the pond have said they might be interested in), does he send out the scores a long time before the event so that people have time to learn them in advance? Presumably you have to play by ear/memory without score during the workshops/sessions? http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11612 BTW with the pound getting more dollars at the moment. it could be more interesting. How much did the school cost (without travel costs) incl. food and bed? as for noel's class, how it works depends on which level you are placed in. in the advanced class, yes, we are expected to learn and play exclusively by ear, with sheet music only serving as an aide for writing down fingerings (which are allowed during practice but usually not in class). in the intermediate and beginner classes, students are expected to listen to the recordings to play along, but ALSO expected to bring the sheet music and a music stand to class. noel does not send out sheet music ahead of time, as he will sometimes change the pieces based on what each individual class needs and wants. it is also very helpful to have noel guide you through each piece of music, preventing the sorts of mistakes and missteps that you may encounter if you had to go through it on your own. please send me a pm asking me about money/etc. i love your example about the orchestra! you'd be kicked out so fast with no one feeling any pity.... a lot of people seem to find it really easy to tell us how our musical culture should operate, when in fact it is very inviting, open and kind to beginners. i can't tell you how many times we have invited people to play their party piece, sing their favorite song, even play scottish bagpipes at any of the sessions i go to. usually the people who feel snubbed are those who don't even ask us to let them play and declare that the fact that we play quickly means that we are not welcoming and rude.

the biggest thing in irish sessions is that you have to know your music by memory. if you know only one set, or one tune, we are very welcoming. if you pretend to know sets by pulling out sheet music, some people might not be very welcoming. the way that most of us have become "fully fledged players" is by sitting quietly in the circle at our sessions week after week, until our one set naturally blossoms into a whole repertoire through immersion. you have to practice at home, yes, but most of the tunes that i play at sessions are tunes i learned in sessions and never studied at home. all the tunes i work on at home (for hours every day) are tunes that no one else seems to know

glad the tune is working out! tell me, do you ever learn tunes by ear? if so, keep it up... if not, try it out! it can help with that flow thing! also, watch some good videos of concertina players to see how they hold the instrument. there are different approaches, but good bellows control leads to good tone control which leads to good flow. i'm pretty strongly vested in one approach to holding the instrument, but i would recommend trying out several different ones that you see the top level players using to find one that works for you right now.

tunebooks are fine at home. leave them there. most of us session players learned most of our tunes at sessions by ear, with the rest of the tunes coming by ear at home. i am a fluent site reader, so sometimes i may pop open the dots when i'm going through a tune at home, especially the first time through. as ken pointed out, you can't really have fun at a session with a tunebook. as for ceemonster's "type a" sessions, i think any session is only as open as the the level of playing in it. i play at sessions with mics all the time and let me tell you... you wouldn't WANT to sit with us if you couldn't keep up! i myself have played many a wrong note on stage, but the fact that i always do my best to blend and take the back seat means that i have always been welcomed and always had fun. if you brought sheet music to a session that was mic'ed, you'd be asked to stop because you're embarrassing yourself. not us... at pub sessions you are still embarrassing yourself, but nobody is watching and you're not on stage. if i play in a non-trad venue, such as in an orchestra hall, i allow my ensembles to use sheet music. i just look right over the stand into the audience, and as time goes on my students have learned to do the same.

as an irish musician, i listen mainly to fiddlers and piper's for inspiration on the concertina. one of my favorite piper's is unfortunately one of the least recorded great pipers, richard o'mealy.. compared to the pipers of the next generation that we are most familiar with, such as seamus ennis and willie clancy, richard o'mealy used his regulators to play chords on just about every beat. this fits in a lot more with my style than the sparse chords that are more usual in piping. remarkably, there seems to be one video of richard o'mealy and true to form he is cheerily vamping chords in an air: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGhM6MueWbE&feature=related

Hi David, would love to come to chicago and do a workshop and concert I have had some inteest from some musicians in Minnesota. Are there enough concertinists in the chicago area to make it worthwhile? Bertram I guess it all depends on if you do a concert when you are in town and if you are looking for an organization to sponsor the event. I think the best way to do it would be through the Old Town School of Folk Music, because they have a very far reach and interest all sorts of folk musicians. I am an Irish musician, so my experience is biased towards that, and I would say that there are not as many concertina teachers or professionals in the area as one would expect. Nevertheless, I think there is a strong but spread out contingent of hobbyists. That would mean that there is a lot of room for someone of your expertise! The Old Town School, for example, does not even list any concertina classes, even though I know there is a demand for teachers. I am not sure how much I could help, but if you are interested please send me a PM or email through the site and we could discuss it some more. I also might have ideas of some other midwestern cities where a smaller event might be more possible, if that is more your style.

keep us updated if you ever make it to the chicagoland or anywhere else in the midwest!

unfortunately, i don't believe it is available in a digital version

Nor on the English, which is what bellowbelle plays (see the photo in her profile). yeah, i noticed that the OP plays english. i'm not sure what the difficulties are presented by the english system in octaves... i have trouble enough getting a scale out of an english concertina! i liken double octaves on the anglo to pulling teeth or getting your fingers tied in knots. what difficulties does the english system present in double octaves?

you're in for a treat! i know you've been hoping to learn from noel for a while. stop eating vegetables, too, if it can help make the difference. that's how i afforded my trip to ireland from the states last year,

i agree. i went from flute to anglo and they couldn't be more different. the english concertina is a great instrument, which gives you a lot of options. speaking of which, i'm still accepting donations for the "david doesn't own an english concertina" fund. checks, paypal, and wheatstones accepted.

i would say that if you are isolated thousands of miles away from professional level players that attending noel's irish camp would be the way to go! it will change your playing forever and open your eyes to what the instrument is capable of. a week of concertina lessons with noel twice a day is worth about a year once a week with someone else.

yeah, i play the anglo and simultaneous octaves (i just call it double octaves) is not something to be taken lightly! took me about 6 or 7 years to manage it convincingly, and i'm still working at it. i didn't really make progress until i had a lesson with micheál ó raghallaigh. he showed me the tricks of the trade for choosing the right buttons, when to go UP and when to go DOWN the octave. he also showed me how to rearrange the tune to make it sound like you are not cheating to make it easier.

thanks, but i can only really take credit for the mistakes, because i'm really just piggy-backing off my friend in the video. i liken it to waterskiing: if you can stand up in the water, the boat does all the work you.