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Posts posted by Sprunghub

  1. I wouldn't advocate it as a leather substitute, per se, but, as a practical & aesthetic 'skin' ( a la cloth ) over folded single length 'folded' card, Melodeon style bellows - which would lend themselves far more easily to square construction than hexagonal, although not exclusively so, it might make for a viable option. 


    Not one for the purists and traditionalists, I know!  and gussets are almost certainly still best placed being 'real' leather ( subject to experimentation )


    Hewitt's seem to sell it principally for book binding - although they reference it as commonly used in the Auto Trade, where it must take some 'wear' for finishing interiors.  I use it for the "spines" on bellows edges and glue the 'non' shiny side using Hewitts PVA / Archive Glue and it shows no signs of suffering, although there is probably much less 'flexing' going on than on a concertina bellows.  The strength of the Arbetex may well allow a reduced 'gsm' in the card which would allow for lighter/more flexible construction. 


    I have never tried to glue 'to' it's shiny surface - I can see that would raise issues......if I were to ( and will give it a try when next home ) I would give Scotch Weld M3 1099 a go first as I use it for other vinyl related work.  




  2. In fairness to the fabric and the bellows, many "better" quality Melodeon/Button Accordion bellows are, as outlined above; on their 4, rather than 6 sides; a continuous 'zig-zag' of folded card.  They are then covered in light fabric ( or simply 'paper' ) and the seams reinforced with a strip of stronger fabric reinforced material.  Many of these bellows have remained serviceable for the best part of 100 or so years and will probably be so for many more years to come.  Even the cheaper, mass produced ones seem to remain sound, although historically, "some" attempts to adapt the gusset material has created 'fails'.  


    An interesting material which I know Alex has some experience of is Arbetex which is a 'thin', "leather look" synthetic material which he has covered a Concertina 'case' with, I see.  I have used this to replace the 'vinyl'/twill material along the seams of traditional Melodeon Bellows with considerable success ( and economy / ease of use ) and whilst traditionalist would "cringe" it appears it may be a useful material for building viable, lightweight, accordion style, concertina bellows as a 'skin' over continuous 'Z' folded card.

  3. I had one, too, Peter, once upon a while ago.  I would agree ( in the case of mine ) the "extra" reeds were a few cents apart, but in the same octave, a la typical Melodeon sound, which gave that vibrato/tremolo effect when both sets were engaged.    


    "Celestial to Organ Tone at the pleasure of the player" - albeit less so in my hands, possibly!


    This link may replace the apparently 'broken' one in the thread above, to the original Cambells catalogue. 



  4. The danger as I see it, this early in the process is that there is a lot of room for "interpretation".  Even in the Uk advice there are "you may be able to" comments, which tends to suggest it could be on the whim of the Officials as to what they will, or won't pass, unchallenged.


    There is Uk Gov advice that (even) working musicians can carry their personal instruments through Borders without a Carnet as long as they are in their travelling vehicle and that foot/air passengers certainly can ( by all accounts), yet at the same time other text suggests that for working musicians "kit" carried in vehicles needs a Carnet.


    Whether someone in a Uniform accepts that it is your personal, non business possession remains a matter for the individual judgement.  Trying to explain the difference between carrying it to play in Sessions for "fun" and a "Gig", which may imply business, may yet lead to some friction.


    I don't think many people will have any practical experience yet and it will be useful to get insights - good & bad.  My experience previously, under the old EU/DEFRA rules was with small livestock.  They were - or should/could have been pretty onerous, as bad as those now around musical instruments, even though we were all in the same regime.  In practice, no one bothered!  It was probably because it was too complicated and DEFRA spent more time providing advice on how to "work around the rules" than work within them.



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  5. I am not sure if this would apply given your intended itinerary, but were I leaving the Uk ( or travelling to, or through it ) to go to some - possibly most countries given the way we are being perceived within "Europe" which, like the Swiss, we have apparently become "disconnected" from by not being in the "EU" - I would have evidence of "prior purchase" before entering/leaving.


    A receipt....phone image of the instrument with a date verified picture in the home environment, or whatever to prove ownership, especially with a "new" instrument.


    It may be you have no intention of coming anywhere near us, but if you do, you don't want to have a "Ham Sandwich" moment courtesy of some over zealous Customs official charging you an "Import Duty", or seizing your instrument.


    It looks as if, for Uk / EU travel, they have "lapsed" the Carnet requirement for "hand luggage" for Air/Sea ( not vehicle ??) passenger, foot travellers if that is relevant. 



  6. Hi Mike, this was not an advert to sell.  It still isn't!  But given your public post responding to a 'private' exchange, and to clarify re. your private critique and my subsequent rebuttal of the suggestion that it contained 'safety pins' for springs and had 'possibly saveable' bellows, I add the images you mention. 


    As mentioned in the initial post, some of the quirky/short legged/armed original springs could do with replacing but that really does require specifically made "short" springs, one or two have already been replaced - as can be seen - with M. L-A ones.  The leather 'dots' on the bellows are temporary repairs for 3 ?  'pin-prick' holes and the bellows are otherwise very sturdy, typically Jeffries quality and entirely functional and "sound" in operation.  The lack of access to a 'skiver' & lock-downs have limited making a more subtle & sensitive solution. 


    Enquiries with respected sources suggest that a valuation of £3.5k is "realistic" and that £3k is very much a Dealer valuation pre retail % "mark up", which as a private seller, we prefer to 'relieve' a potential buyer from having to spend.  It allows for an outlay for a new owner for any necessary work "within" the overall 'potential' value of the instrument and as always, I am amenable to posting abroad and working with potential buyers to mediate costs the involved within my "end". 


    This was not intended as an "Advert", so not supported by a 'price' or images, but for the sake of clarity given your post which does imply some criticism of the instrument, I enclose said images.  We are hopeful of finding someone to play it to assist the sale in early July at the latest and am in no great hurry to sell before then.







  7. My wife has decided that, despite my best efforts and proactive encouragement she does not want to learn to play the Concertina.  I am frustrated because she 'can' but really does not have the time or, more sadly, the inclination to work at it.


    I can not play it beyond some very simple 'dotting' of notes to approximate a tune and couldn't if I wanted to due to the same finger/hand problems that led to me putting the Crane down.


    It is a Jeffries Anglo 39k, it is in A/E ( not Ab/Eb) tuning and the buttons appear to be laid out in the same pattern, the requisite steps apart, as a standard Jeffries 39k in C/G as per the Net layouts.  


    It came to us entirely unplayable and it has been cleaned, re-valved, re-padded etc and now plays nicely ( within the constraints of my ability ).  I would really like to have a 'promo' video of it being played  so as to advertise it "warts and all" in the hope of getting a fair/realistic price for it, which would end up satisfying all parties involved.


    I "know" it might benefit from a few new springs, so may benefit from further investment in the hands of one of the 'top fettlers'.....I know it is in "Society of the Arts" tuning ( like John Lennons guitars ) at A=444......,which I do not find discordant when played with instruments in 440hz ( but I do have no ear for music! )......I "believe" and have been supported by the views of others that the bellows, whilst un- gilded and without 'fancy' papers are 'original' and I know that A/E tuning is rare in Jeffries, but not unheard of - an experienced member has one too.  It may well have been a singers instrument or for Chapel use originally.


    I did have it played by an 'improver' Anglo player at the weekend, but the Jeffries layout and extra buttons was a little confounding for them initially, although it led to a nice rendition of the Cheshire Waltz once they had it sorted, but not really a 'video'able level one.


    The long and the short is I am wondering if there are any players in any of the 'title' areas, who, with the easing of regulations would be prepared to meet and give it a run out for us.....We are Worcs/Glos for this week, then down South for several.....


    PM is fine......



  8. I know from a bit of Melodeon buying via Ebay.De that some sellers are very reluctant to sell to (specifically ) Brazil due to posting problems.....mind you, even pre January, as many were reluctant to sell to the Uk


    The CITES issue is a worry.....but it depends how - to some extent - you describe the item and how specific you ( or anyone else can be about the nature of the "Rosewood" and it's origins ( or otherwise ? ).  There isn't an infinite amount of space on the form and by the time you have written, "steel, leather, felt, card, wood - hard"......you may not have space for 'rose'..... and I doubt anyone would have the expertise to identify it from the numerous similar perfectly legitimate timbers out there without scientific tests ?


    That is not to suggest that supporting the trade in any illegally felled/protected Dalbergia Sp. should be supported or encouraged, but when the 'sample' is 100 years ( or so ) old some restrictions are a sledgehammer to crack a nut/legume.....



  9. A random search of the 'Date my Lachenal' thread suggests Mccann 2184, dates to 1903.  There isn't much of a gap twixt the two so probably within a year or so ( not knowing if 2184 would have been Jan or Dec production ? )


    Mccann/Crane serials supposedly conjoined at 2700 (Mccann's)  in 1910.  


    A deeper search of the Lachenal dating thread might reveal a closer comparator but it's 14 pages long! or one can guess at the maths?

  10. Your situation is a little different to the "new" issue of importing from the EU into the Uk, because there are no "new" rules, as such, for importing from SA ( or the USA / Oz / Japan etc )  The rules are still "the rules" that they were before 01/01.  The "standard" International Form for Customs is a CN23 ( at that size/value ) but there is some info. to suggest that SA to UK uses a Form PP4, which may be the same in basic layout.




    Either way, it should come with a Customs Tariff Number and description of the item, so it's odd that DHL asking anything about what is in the parcel of the recipient ( rather than the sender ) whose duty it is to make the declarations.


    Either way, the Charge would be on the value ( given it's value ) and to be expected?   


    The 3 year "question" relates to a "Return of Goods" option....


    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-less-import-duty-and-vat-when-re-importing-goods-to-the-uk-and-eu#:~:text=You can get this relief,known as Returned Goods Relief.&text=The goods must also%3A,inward processing or end-use


    so not one that would ever be available on a vintage instrument.


    So, it all sort of makes sense.




  11. On 3/31/2021 at 9:51 PM, Richard Mellish said:

    I am back in contact with Donovan in South Africa and will probably be buying the D/A box from him.

    Does anyone know whether I am likely to be charged VAT when it arrives in the UK? Does the fact that it was originally made in the UK make any difference?


    It will make no odds that it was made in the Uk, and VAT will no doubt be charged given the value at a rate of 20%.  The "balance" in the process is to weigh the "valuation" against the known VAT charge and the risk of loss/damage in the value declared on the CN23.  ie.  do you want to take a 20% value "risk" ? on it getting here in one piece compared to what you agree as the purchase price / your personal moral view of the cost of Concertinas ( as opposed to what they are worth ) and how the tax system works ?   If you discount the purchase price to the value of 20% on the CN23, when you pay the VAT it will be a net '0' equation.  I think Ciaran suggested there may be a loophole for Antiques - which may be a whole new 'wormhole' to go down, but if it is a wormhole with 20% of some £k at the bottom it may be worth diving into! ......not that a 1950's one would qualify probably.

  12. "We are making life simpler and fairer for all."  Apparently it has been introduced to counter millions ( if not billions ) of Euro's worth of EU ( and no doubt Uk ) wide tax evasion via online sales.

    The Uk introduced - supposedly - the process on 01/01, early, so as not to have to tweak the rules again 7 months after leaving the EU.


    Having said that, I have received quite a few parcels from the EU in these first three months, all OMP purchases, mostly via Ebay FR/DE/IT.  None have had any indication on the packaging to indicate VAT paid at source, none have indicated OMP purchase, none have initiated  any VAT charge or 'handling' in GB Customs.  I have been fairly careful to keep the declared value under the £135/€150 value, on all bar one occasion it has been and I took the 'loss' risk on the one that wasn't ( it was only just over ).  The lack of interest as stuff is coming through Customs suggests they are either too busy to bother chasing the VAT for now or, until the EU start imposing the new OMP process, the Uk has only paid lip service to the supposed change?


    Ebay is supposedly taking the VAT on behalf of Uk Gov for EU OMP purchases since 01.01 and some listing show a price and state "+20% VAT", but when payment is called for, there is no 20% 'hike', which I don't understand.  Whether it is because I am logged in via the DE, IT, FR page, in German/Italian/French, I don't know.





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  13. I must say, in respect only of Ireland/ROI to the Uk, there is some distinctly confusing advice regarding "export" because of their "special relationship" with the North, wherein they seem to be sharing VAT status.


    Read at face value, the implications of much of this text (link below) suggest's exports to the (rest of) the Uk DO require (RO)Irish VAT to be charged and Import VAT when arriving in the Uk.



    That makes no sense and the fact that OMP's aren't even mentioned ( or the €150 limit ) suggests the information is questionable or outdated/pre Deal, to me. 


    I hesitate to suggest that anyone read all of the next link.....but it seems to be the case that on ( or just before ) 01/01 the Uk generated swathes of accurate, if sometimes hasty and /or complicated, 'Post-Brexit' information.  At the same time much of Europe left the 'pre 01/01 information "live" which tries to cover No Deal and Deal, because no one was quite sure.  The link below seems to suggest it is one such.  




    Reading this - at face value - not having regard for the fact that a deal was thrashed out, it too suggests a possible 'double VAT' hit.  Then you have to 'get past' the Business to Business interactions, ignoring the Hard Brexit/No Deal angle,  but eventually the pertinent section appears to be ...... 

    Exports to UK

    A zero rate of VAT applies to goods exported  from the European Union. This will apply to the sale of goods to the United Kingdom after Brexit. It must be proved that the goods have been dispatched directly out of the EU by the seller to a purchaser established outside the state.Evidence of supply must be available.

    In the case of goods carried on the trader;s own vehicles the export notification message issued to the exporter for customs purposes is usually used. In the case of carriage by sea the bill of lading certificate of shipment or shipping advice notice is used proof. The certificate of posting may be used in the case of postal sales. In the case of goods exported by air, the air waybill or other equivalent information may be used

    Import VAT and Brexit

    Traders who are below the VAT registration threshold or are in a  VAT exempt business must pay import VAT and and may not reclaim it later. The procedures are the same as customs duty.

    (Next irrelevant post Deal ?? In the absence of new arrangements with UK, imports from the UK by unregistered persons to private persons exempt businesses and sub-threshold businesses are subject to immediate payment of VAT in Ireland rather than payment of VAT in the place of supply in this case United Kingdom. Potentially the cause of Irish VAT charge confusion from the previous Website )

    The supply from the UK would be exempt. The sale and dispatch out of the UK must be proved to reclaim UK VAT.

    UK Perspective Post Brexit

    Exports from Ireland to the UK  will  be subject to the zero rate of VAT in Ireland as exports. They will be subject to UK VAT as  imports.

    Where UK businesses import goods from the EU the UK government proposes to introduce  postponed accounting for import VAT for VAT registered businesses in the UK. A guarantee is likely to be required.  In this case, businesses would be able to account for import VAT on their VAT return rather than payment at point of entry at the border. Customs declarations and payment of other duties may still be required where applicable. They may also be deferred under a guarantee.

    When UK businesses export  goods to EU businesses they will continue to be zero rated.  EU sales lists will no longer be required in the absence of agreement for UK sales.U K businesses exporting to the EU must obtain evidence that the goods have left the UK in order to justify the zero rating of the supply for UK purposes. UK businesses will continue to be able to claim VAT refunds from EU states using the procedure for non-EU businesses.

    Under current EU rules, goods entering the EU will be subject to VAT and  (and customs duties in some cases) in the EU country of import. In some cases VAT may be chargeable at the border. The particular position will be determined by the status of the buyer, the nature of the goods and the rules of the country concerned, which however have been largely harmonised.

    Low Value Relief

    The present low Value consignment relief will apply to goods entering the UK from the EU. In principle goods entering the UK sent by overseas businesses will be subject to VAT (where as in most cases, VAT is chargeable.

    It is proposed in the case of parcels valued up to £135 that a technology-based solution will allow VAT to be collected from the overseas business seller. Overseas businesses will be expected to register with HMRC and account for VAT when due. A unique identifier will accompany parcel sent to the UK.

    On goods worth more than £135 sent in parcels the UK will collect VAT from UK recipients in accordance with current procedures in respect of third country suppliers.



    As per my previous, I see no "Unique Identifier" on any parcel/envelope I have received since 01/01 from the EU.


    Given how difficult it is (was) to find reliable information in the Uk ( to whom the changes matter ) it is probably no surprise that in some instances 'some' in the EU, including ROI are having to wade through 'sketchy', 'mis' or outdated information and giving up! 

    • Confused 2
  14. On 2/18/2021 at 9:53 AM, JimmyG said:



    I cancelled an order from ROI a few weeks ago (not concertina related). I consulted with the retailer and they confirmed that, being above £135, I would have to pay VAT on its arrival to the tune of some £300 extra. Obviously that is a choice left to the buyer, but many of them are being taken by surprise.



    I am sorry but this makes no sense.  An order  for Goods from ROI/EU meriting a £300 VAT charge on entry to the Uk should have been Zero rated in ROI for sale to an Non EU country.  You only pay VAT once, you don't get charged VAT as an  EU duty then again as Uk duty.  There should be no built in "extra" to that degree ?


    Yes there may be a small 'extra' VAT charge on the carriage costs and a small handling charge and carriage costs have gone up - €10 on a typical €25 parcel pre Brexit ( from Germany ), ie. now around €34.  


    Without knowing the specifics it is difficult to be precise, but, the bottom line is that if +/- £300 'extra', if a VAT charge is due on arrival in the Uk, then the price of the Goods supplied by the Irish company should have been Zero rated, ie. no VAT charged at source, discounted to that same VAT value at point of sale from the list price "inc of VAT".


    Evidence is that many EU companies have not been given much insight into how to address post 01/01 sales to the Uk.  Some have started refusing to sell to the Uk re the VAT issues even under the £150 Euro limit, but it appears they could still sell, and Buyers could still pay the VAT on entry into the Uk, as we do with some non OMP purchases from the State's. 


    Truth is......I suspect most, if not all, would slip through anyway currently as there has been nothing on several parcels I have received from France and Germany, since 01/01, to suggest "Duty Paid" or "Duty Due", nothing to indicate OMP purchase, either, although they have been. 


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