TimTim

Hi Nicolas, I suppose you've done your research on the Elise? Lots of interesting conversations, including one where a forum member explains the problem it might be the day you want to upgrade....and there are no "middle-range" concertinas available. I thought it was something rather crucial to consider... But then I am also curious about trying the Elise one day so... (by the way, I think the app can't mimic the instrument. When you have the concertina in your hands, there are so many elements your brain and your body register to make sense of it that I think it makes a huge difference. That is, you remember more easily and all. ) [edit] Sorry I'm in a hurry, just to add that there this other member Matthew Vanitas I think, who played an Elise for a good few years before upgrading so that too is good to know... aaarrhgh you've put the Elise back on my mind.

Then I think you should get a Jackie because that's what I already have And if you haven't looked into it yet, check out the OAIM, all the lessons are on an Anglo! (unless of course you get Skype lessons!)

Hi Nicolas, I hope you'll find what you want - but just FYI, do you know that Harry Geuns sells the Rochelle in Belgium? With shipping included you'd be looking at less than 400 eur.

Thank you Steve and Geoff, Exactly what a friend told me - I know I'm too impatient but that's how I've always learned, not linearly but jumping all over the place. Probably not the most effective way of learning but it is something I've always done! And I've stopped myself from posting a thousand times already, knowing it was too soon, that I ought to work more and find out by myself...but sometimes if does feel lonely! Ok, back to work. Sometimes if feels like the jump from single note to two notes is a huge difference - I go from too thin (melody line) to too much, but I guess I'm just not used to it. So much to learn! I'm still curious about other Jackie owners though.

Besides this classical piece (the only one I've tried to play so far and which has done a lot to my finger agility) I am bored to death with single line melodies. I've been trying to use chords, thirds, fifths, sixths, all that but nothing comes that pleases me. It does enrich the melody a bit but I still find it boring. What I like best in the recordings I've heard on Youtube is drones or when a note runs under (or above) a triplet or a series of notes. When I try to do that on the Jackie (besides terrible difficulties in finding finger position) either the note covers everything (if it is low) or it mushes everything (if it is high). Long-time owners, have you managed to achieve that with the Jackie? Is it to do with pressure - should I learn to put less but even pressure while giving a full blast to the melody notes? Is it really something that changes immensely with a high-end concertina? Geoff Woff said that the limited range of the Jackie meant also less possibilities in chords etc, but 37 button concertinas (like the Albion or the Marcus) don't have many more, so does this mean that the ideal upgrade would be a Geordie ? I know I'm still a beginner, having only started to really try to understand the concertina for...err...2 months? - but I'd like to know whether I'm trying to achieve the impossible due to the instrument or if it will eventually click. Needless to say, even the Marcus (2000 pounds) won't be in reach before a long time. Could Jackie owners tell a bit about their story and evolution with that instrument? Here's my little bit - without repeats and cut at the end (apparently my landlord decided it would be good to keep renovating a flat at this time of the day) dance.mp3

Hi Steve, thank you for your kind words! What kind of music? I have no idea. I didn't even know I'd like playing at all before I got my concertina. I only turned to classical pieces out of boredom and would love to learn more about that too, but I think I'd love to play "popular" songs for my own enjoyment as well. I've noticed that the songs that stick with me usually have some harmonica or accordion in it. I'm afraid I have to log off already as a friend has just returned from holiday but I'll keep your advice in mind.

Ok ! (After working on the classical piece with fingers all over the place I noticed I had a bit more freedom so I guess it will come from there as well) Thank you!

Hi Geoff, Good point in terms of sound, but when it comes to figuring out working with "extra" fingers, I guess I can start right away? But could you please clarify something : when you add to a simple melody, do you find yourself changing your initial finger position or can you find the right chords with the remaining fingers? If yes, it must be that my initial positioning is already wrong... I can't give you a pdf as the complex piece I was thinking about was only as an example (it's a Larghetto piece by Albinoni) and I wouldn't change anything to it. It's just that if on top of such complex finger positions I had to find chords well...as you said: Ok, in a way I am relieved. Or not. Thanks a lot Geoff,

I've just come back from a trip to the shop and I find that some buttons vibrate a lot when pressed - I really feel it through my fingers... It's really unpleasant and happens only in the notes in the middle (whereas the high notes are weak as usual). It almost feels as if there was a strain to open and close the bellows. [edited to add some info]: It's a physical sensation in the fingers, not the buzzing one can have sometimes with the Jackie Where should I look, what should I look for? Over a week ago I tried opening the Jackie to install baffles but didn't go further than removing the action box (so I only had access to the reeds, which I didn't touch). To get in the action box itself there were two tiny screws (more like nails really) that were too deeply set in and seemed brittle when I tried to unscrew them. I didn't want to break anything so I didn't pursue it. I put the things back together without any trouble and have played happily since then. Any advice would be welcome - unless it is something that just happens ? Incidentally I've never felt how hard it was to stay in rhythm than the last few days. There is a small delay before some notes, whereas others will respond immediately and surprise me. Did I do something wrong by opening the Jackie? Tim

Hello, I'm confused about the way you learn a tune and add the chords. I'm painstakingly trying to remember the chords (and so also have to understand the different keys), that's one thing. My problem is more with fingers... For me adding anything out of the melody line means re-learning a different fingering. For simple tunes probably not, and even less so with simple octaves... but what about complicated pieces? For example I'm working on a classical piece and my fingers, all four of them, are already all over the place! High E can be played by four different fingers...I sometimes had to write down which finger went where to make sure I could continue the phrase. So what does this mean? Will I have to learn everything twice, with two different fingering? Or do I have to be so good that I can already imagine the fingers I'll need in the future? Or so comfortable that really it doesn't matter where my fingers are (actually I can see that happening at some point). I apologize if my formulation is unclear. I've already written five or six messages that I never posted because I wasn't even sure of what I was asking... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FYI I have a Jackie and high notes are much much weaker than the other notes. A lot of advice has already been given to me on this forum - but it takes its own route in my brain. Things that I mentally thought were great hadn't sunk in, then resurface later and it clicks "yeah, that's what I have to do!". I'm confident it will be the same with chords. PS: I want to work on this chording/accompanying/enriching the melody...I've seen videos of Danny Chapman (Prof Rat on youtube) and he made me think that maybe I didn't need to try the duet system after all

thank you for that link! Makes me wish I had more high notes though! [EDIT for additional info] : You can use Advanced Search to select pieces within a certain range, with highest note, lowest note, etc... very useful if you don't want to spend hours browsing every music sheet. Wish I'd noticed earlier

Hello, I'm no one to give advice here - but maybe you could also say which concertina you have? In the meantime you might want to check those threads: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4190 http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3576 and many more on the forums. In my Jackie Concertina Tutor (EC), they say to rest the concertina on the knee, arms close to 90 degrees, raise the knee if needed. Thumbs inserted to first joint (that's why you should say if you play anglo or EC)...so I'll stop here. And congratulations! Tim

Thanks Will, Yes, I found similar things on the net but I was actually looking into making my own pattern! (I have a Jackie and I think I can afford a bit of fantasy...)

Lovely ! thank you David!

Hello, I haven't found the specs for the type of paper to use, for example its thickness, composition, etc. I've seen people talking about book binding paper but that doesn't seem to narrow it down to one sort in particular? Yes, I'm playing with the idea of adding a personal touch to my Jackie as I'm likely to keep it for years! I know you can order bellows papers with traditional patterns but as it is a Jackie I thought maybe I could design the pattern myself. Apologies if the information is elsewhere already! (and I'll be sure to use the right glue as I see someone has had a bit of an accident with it...) Thank you, Tim

Hello Dave, I take it he's already considered the Jackie/Jack from Concertina Connection? If not, I'll take the liberty of trying to sum up here... [PS] Actually it might help if you give more details - his experience, etc? Pros: affordable (around) 420$ I think can be entirely refunded if he upgrades buttons have same layout and spacing as on a "real" EC so what he learns is transferable gets him to play and learn without having to wait for year to come up with more money (I know people can say that of a lot of "cheap" instruments but I think in this case the Jack/Jackie is a "real" instrument) Cons: there is a reason you'll read a lot about people very quickly upgrading to a better instrument, so even if he's broke and / or only six months into it, chances are he'll be already dreaming of upgrading!! Beginner here so my input won't be super enlightened. Bottom line: I have a Jackie, it's cheers me up even just to think about it when I'm at work, I've just started trying to learn "properly", and given the chance I would definitely go for a better instrument! But I bet that if your friend has ever laid his hands on anything better, chances are he won't want to go for a Jackie/Jack.

Hi, If you can get personal Skype lessons, great and go for it! And if you wanted to supplement that, does anyone have an opinion about OAIM? (online Academy of Irish Music) I find it very reasonably priced. As a beginner myself (with even less under my belt than the OP), I wouldn't know but I have found the first few lessons very helpful (and I have an EC whereas the lessons are all for Anglo concertinas) as it approaches technical aspects in small bites and you get to go back to the material as many times as you want. I would never say it replaces a "live" teacher but I thought it was something to know. Maybe more seasoned players could pitch in about that?

Hi Mikefule, your explanation is very clear, thanks, but that's even weirder than what I did then... and totally breaks the tune? But I can keep trying it!

Hi Jody ! Thank you for your comment and the exercise! Having practical things to work with is really a big help for me... I've also tried the first "free" Irish concertina lessons on OAIM and they also explain the "cuts", which I found great and really helpful, so I'm considering subscribing (even on my EC I found that it was really helping me understand the instrument). It's funny but those very "simple" things (in appearance) have really lifted my spirits. [update five minutes later:] I'm not sure I'm doing your exercise right: I play each note twice, one long, one short, then move on to the next note. Maybe it's wrong but I noticed a change when I tried to play a phrase the normal way!

No worries - I didn't go there ! Now working on a few tunes from Paul Hardy's Tunebooks and listening to their version on Youtube over and over...and having a great time! If it means at some point working against the instrument rather than being helped by it, so be it! The reason I started the concertina in the first place was because I would push a button and sound would come out...really as basic as that . I'm already grateful and amazed at how much interest, curiosity and pleasure it has brought me. (thank you Mike Franch, I love this forum. I've sometimes read threads I didn't understand just for the pleasure of seeing heated conversations about the concertina) [edit] trying one last time to upload an audio file...it works ! I flunked the last few notes but I've struggled so much recording anything... childgrove.mp3

Thanks Geoff, it's something I was quite aware of when I bought it - happy enough that I could afford it! Besides I live in Brussels and don't know anyone who - should I get the money (! very unlikely) - could help me buy a better one. I don't want to feel discouraged and give up, blaming everything (or a lot) on the instrument. There is a lot I can learn and improve with the Jackie, I'm sure. [edit] I couldn't help myself : used 48 buttons Nickolds EC for 80$

Ladies and Gentlemen, I feel really embarrassed now - so much advice ! thank you. I've been having internet connection problems and thought that was the problem but I still can't upload my recording... But having read all your comments I can see how my little piece is a textbook example of everything beginners do. Daniel Hersh, thank you for yet another useful link. There's a lot more discipline that has to go into it than I ever thought... To sum up (for my sake): - know the tune...really know it - listen to more recordings rather than relying on music sheet (guilty as charged, even more damaging in my case as I'm not good at reading rhythm) - record yourself (you wouldn't believe what it did to me, it was both mortifying and enlightening) - review your position - stable but flexible - vary vary vary

- trying to upload - coming..

Hi John Wild, the analogy is helpful. Though right now I must have had a scare because I'm looking at how to make harps instead of practicing...

Hi Geoff, Elephant Walking, that's it, absolutely! Looking into Alistair Anderson right now - and really have to work at it, I suppose it's not secret. I think I'll try not to do any elephantine thing, that would already be progress. Before this thread I was wondering what was wrong - the touch, the rhythm, the way I move the bellows (actually I don't do anything, I am aware of that, I don't use the bellows at all but for the "natural" movement from pushing and pulling...)? Now I realize it's everything [EDIT] I was thinking of recording something so at least people here would have an idea of my problem - and oh my... I was under no illusion about my skills but it turns out it is even more sluggish than I thought. So I MUST EXAGGERATE and try to get out of there !!