ceemonster

Ah, the Old Traditional Money-Grab. Or -Grub. One does note a slew of very sweet videos still up there, showing players who apparently and luckily don't begrudge the views. Including super-recent stuff from the Corofin trad fest which includes a couple of lovely clips from a rather sleek-&-svelte-looking Mr. Liam O'Brien, and two lovely offerings from Ms. Rachael Hughes.

I'm not sure I agree with high-quality accordion-reeded concertinas being classified as middle-grade, even "better" middle-grade. That view is not unique to this thread, it's common, but I have come to question that view I've come around to the view that if the accordion-reeded concertina has premium hand reeds and top-quality action and craftsmanship, it's a top-quality concertina full stop, but an accordion-reeded one, and either you want accordion reeds or you don't.

I'm going to throw two cents in support of the OP's original post. Because just as the personal can be political, so can economics be ergonomics. And "Exhibit A" of that principle might be, the cheap concertina. Many such concertinas by virtue of their very shoddiness, have dreadful ergonomics. And due to their dreadful ergonomics, might discourage one from playing due to discomfort or sheer disgust with the whole enterprise. I've seen at least one master player/teacher from Ireland quoted as advising starters not to begin with one of these precisely because it can injure your tendons.

Here is another West Clare Young Player winner. He's a special concertina player, indeed. Thanks for this update. 'Twas just yesterday it was young Edel, and now she is a mommy.

There are a weirdly high number of Ebay listings just now of supposedly incredible Wheatstones, at oddly low prices. I find this anomalous enough to warrant extreme caution.

well, this IS a charmer! Sad that today's Stagi's are quadruple the price but weak and treacly to the point of uselessness in contrast to the bright squawk some of the older Stagis/Bastaris had. . . . very sweet stuff here, indeed . . . .

'd be nice to see it live on as a static site at least. I'm fond of those gallery pages. sorry you've not playing anymore, OP.

Haven't heard of "polkas" in Swedish gammaldans, only polskas, largely a 3/4 time dance form. Love Swedish and other modal Scandinavian traditions, and agree that EC is wonderful for this music. You're aware of "Troll Road," Mark Gilman's recording of Swedish and other Scandinavian trad music on EC? I personally graze in the modal/modal-minor end of the Swedish pasture, rather than the hearty major-key oompah-ish end of the pasture. The haunting modal stuff is often from parts of Dalarna, and northward blurring into Norwegian, and Norwegian is also often very model. Rachel Wells Hall is another EC player who specializes in Scandinavian on EC; I believe much of her focus has been Norway.

The Morse ESB model comes stock with "tipo-a-mano" reeds, also known as "TAM," "hand-type," or, "hand-finished" reeds. This is a premium reed grade below "true a-mano" or true hand-made reeds, but a higher grade than the highest-grade "factory" reed, which are often called "Super Durall." Morse Anglos usually come stock with Super Durall factory reeds, with TAM reeds as an upgrade option, at a very reasonable price. Making their Baritone Anglo stock with TAM reeds, is a big part of the reason why its low reeds are responding better/faster than accordion reeds usually respond in baritone concertinas. (The trademark Morse light weight and super-fast action mechanism are also in the mix, of course.) TAM reeds can usually be counted on to give a quicker, more supple response than factory, and usually have somewhat more dynamic range than factory. They also often stay in tune longer than factory, and often have a bit brighter/squawkier of a tone than factory (whether that floats your boat is subjective, of course. I like this tone.) I prefer TAM reeds in "hybrid" concertinas, and would not consider a hybrid without them, that going double for a baritone. I have a baritone Morse EC on order with TAM reeds, and would like to have an ESB Anglo as well, for that matter. I think they sound great, and if they respond as well as noted by the earlier poster in this thread, that is a wonderful development for an accordion-reeded baritone Anglo. or for any baritone concertina, really. Even concertina-reeded baritones can respond quite sluggishly. (Footnote: to my knowledge, "true a mano" reeds have not appeared in hybrid concertinas. TAM seem to be the highest grade used for concertinas. I wonder if this is because "a mano" reeds are more fragile and don't cut down as well in the way accordion reeds must be cut down to fit concertinas. Don't know.)

Get one of the MIDI concertina programs for sleepy-time. If you think you're going to stick with G/D and play out in bands, for dances, at seshes, FHS don't give up a wonderful metal-ended Edgley.

If you seriously start playing and playing out, you'd regret giving up that instrument.

[[[if I am writing a post and want to include a quote from a previous post how do I go about it.]]] That is how.

Basically, buying one of these is like throwing your money out onto the street. Unfortunately for the people who are intrigued if not enchanted by the little music box-like gems known as concertinas, that fact is not generally known.

The Hayden Duet is similar to both a PA (piano accordion) and a CBA (chromatic button accordion, AKA "Continental Chromatic") in these features--- 1--It is unisonoric, one note per button, same on the push, same on the pull 2--The lower, bass notes are on the left, the higher, treble notes are on the right, so you can play melody right side, bass left side 3--The layout is in a FIXED pattern. The pattern is different for each of these systems, and in Hayden and CBA the pattern is not SEQUENTIAL as on PA. But, all three have a "Rosetta Stone" or key, and you don't have to memorize a random assortment like on the bisonoric bandoneon I know it's true you can play Irish tunes on a duet system. But it's really not the optimal system for that. It's tough to play Irish reels to dance speed all on the right hand for more than a set or so. If you're playing a single tune melody rather than melody and bass, and you're playing that single tune melody quite fast, Both the Anglo and the EC share the burden between hands much more than a duet. Duet is a good choice if what you want to do with it is play melodies with bass accompaniment--waltzes, tangos, etc. Or, counterpoint with multiple voices---Duets with lots of buttons are also very amenable to classical and jazz. The Crane Duet is also a predictable, repeating pattern that is easy to "grok." But nobody is making them currently--Well, John Connor in the UK MAY be making them. But you can get a very quick and responsive accordion-reeded Hayden with plenty of notes at a minimal wait from either Morse (the Beaumont Hayden model with 46 notes) or Wim Wakker (the Peacock Hayden model with 42) After PA, though, you may find duet concertina a little limited. A PA or a CBA will do much, much more. On the other hand, the compact size and portability of the duet concertina is winning indeed.

Sorry, the Morse Hayden model is the "Beaumont," not the Elise.

It is an extremely nice 46-button concertina-reeded concertina by Wim Wakker, a Hayden Duet, meaning, a unisonoric system (one note per button same note on both push and pull like an EC), with high notes on the right hand, low notes on the left. You can check them out at www.concertinaconnection.com, and find the Hayden page. The "Baby Elephant" player has several clips with his Hayden, and he and the instrument are pretty sweet. I believe Wim Wakker has quite a waiting list for his Haydens. There are also a very nice accordion-reeded Haydens available of late, a 46-button from Morse concertinas (the "Elise" model) at www.buttonbox.com. And Wim Wakker does one also, the 42-button Wakker Peacock. As for the jazzy little number in the clip, you can learn the melody by ear and figure out chords for the bass. The melody should be very playable on a duet system, an EC, and even an Anglo, and both EC and Anglo will give you some little bass chord touches even if not quite as conveniently as on duet system.

I'd flow a little dough to CrowdFund Hercules

everybody has different needs. but people who are purchasing a concertina to be played at least some of the times in session/dance hall/party settings, can't afford to invest $6K and up, in an instrument without the capacity to be as loud as a concertina "can" be. even the loudest, honkiest, barkiest concertina is gonna be drowned out eventually. that is why concertinas were supplanted by accordions when the dance-hall era came in. and accepting that, and not needing to be the noisiest instrument that crushes all the others, is part of playing concertina. but for that kind of money, somebody whose playing will include sessions and dance, does want all the lung power a concertina "can" have. provided it's a quality instrument with a wide dynamic range, you then get your choice. I have a very loud, metal-ended dipper anglo, and the wonderful piper who leads sessions in my region is always admonishing that the concertina can not be heard. it's not because I am shy with the bellows. it is because even the loudest concertina will be drowned out by powerful instruments in a noisy session. fair enough, but for my $6K-plus, it's gotta have all the reserve lung power a concertina is capable of having. there's this thought--don't know if the Suttner you tried was metal or wood ends. but wood does often impart a sweeter, less-bright tone. edgeleys are very fast instruments. there are people who buy a lovely edgeley accordion-reeded instrument and are set for their pro career.

Three delish sample tracks--reels, jigs, hornpipes--at: http://claddaghrecords.com/index.php/mary-mac-namara-sorcha-costello-the-lady-s-cup-of-tea.html

You won't find a bandoneon for 100-300. You want to educate your ear about what a chemnitzer sounds like. You might not like it. You might prefer the traditional bandoneon sound. You want to go on youtube and keyword "solo bandoneon" and "solo chemnitzer" to try to hear the difference and get a feel for what you might like. Even bandoneons themselves, the classic "true" bandoneon sound of 2 voices LM, come in different systems. ----142 buttons, bisonoric (2 notes per button, one on the "pull" and one on the "push"): In German, this type is known as rheinische tonlage system. The 142-button rheinische tonlague bisonoric bandoneon is the one the Argentine tangueros use, prefer, and insist on for tango ---144 buttons, bisonoric (2 notes per button, one of the "pull" and one on the "push"): In German, this is known as the einheitsbandonion The 144-button enheits system can be 2-voice LM classic bandonion sound. OR it can be many-voice chemnitzer sound. So beware. If it has the classic 2-octave LM tuning, it is a bandoneon. The Argentines won't play it, and insist you can only play tango on the 142 rheinische system. This is untrue. You can play tango or anything on it. But only you can decide if you want to follow the Argentine way. Many tango enthusiasts go for the 142 because that is how they do it in Buenos Aires ---146 buttons, unisonoric (1 note per button, same on the "pull," same on the "push"): So-called "chromatic" or "chromatique" system. This system has sub-types, Such as the "Peguri" system. "Peguri" in the description means it is a subtype of "chromatique" unisonoric The French developed this to play tango without the hassle of learning 2 notes per button. Argentine maestros would insist this system does not have the authentic sound. Many Parisian virtuosos play tango on "chromas," Only you can decide. I suggest spending a long time on ebay reading and looking before making a move to try to buy anything. You will see 142 button bandoneons, 144 button bandoneons, and "chromatic" unisonoric bandoneons. You will also see cheminitzers. One way to see if it is a chemnitzer is to look for a statement as to how many reed sets, or how many voices are present. 2 voices octave-tuned, should be the classic bandoneon sound. More voices should mean it is a "chemnitzer concertina." Ebay US and Ebay UK are good for reading about bandoneons. There are lots of used bandoneons in Germany because that is where they are made, so read on Germany ebay. There are lots of used bandoneons in France because of the French history with tango, so read on French ebay. (watch out for unisonoric "chromatiques" in France" You can also look at lots of used bandoneons and see the photos and descriptions at a French sale site for used items called: https://www.leboncoin.fr you want the geographic setting, "Toute La France," to see instruments from all over the country. There are usually quite a few listings, and you can look at the photos and run the descriptions through Google Translate if you don't read French. it is a good way to get a feeling for bandoneons. There are many more used bandoneons in both Germany and France. Germany, because that is where they were made. France, because tango and bandoneon were very loved there, and to some degree still are. The trick is how to assess the quality and condition from a distance.

You have to be careful. Because some "concertinas" that are shaped the same way as a bandoneon, are what in the US are called "chemnitzers." IAnd those have a different sound. They have more voices, more sets of reedblocks. And it is not the same sound as what is usually meant by "bandoneon," i.e. 2 voices, octave-tuned or just a few cents apart, one Low/one Middle. (The LM sound on accordion switches is sometimes labeled "bandoneon.") Go on youtube and keyword "chemnitzer," or "chemnitzer concertina," and you'll see what I mean. I THINK, but am NOT SURE, that some chemnitzers perhaps have switches so you could have just the LM voices for a classic bandoneon sound. Again---I'm NOT SURE on that one. "Chemnitzers" are also sometimes just called "concertinas." The whole chemnitzer-versus-bandoneon-versus-"concertina" distinction can be quite tricky on ebay, where sellers frequently don't make clear what beast it is, and may not even know.

Not to further blow your cover, RAc, but do you also play a certain stringed instrument???? If so, I have enjoyed your clips very much, and had not made the connection 'til now . . . . Fellow Masked Marauder :ph34r:

Well, if you don't read music and don't read ABC/tab, sheet music is not going to be terribly useful until you learn one of those. But, since you asked: Most sheet music for this piece/tune is in "score" form, for multiple instruments. It is confusing, because the main melody line trades off between different instruments. Equally to the point, I personally hate, hate, HATE "MFAFH" in "orchestral" form for multiple instruments. Horrid and florid wallow in kitsch, schlock-folk bombast. What you want, is single-instrument solo sheet music showing the main melody for one instrument. That is what is being played in the youtube video you posted here. So I have found one, but my computer will not copy to bhangout. Here is a try at noting it down, or you can google: http://www. traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-music-mandolin-tab/music_for_a_found_harmonium.htm I had to break up the address because the cnet Save was eliminating much of it when I typed it all together. If the key(s) in this mandolin notation does not work well for Anglo concertina, you'll need to transpose it to a key that does. It looks fine and doable to me, though, and it's a good single-melody-line folk version. That's a very nice concertina rendition in your youtube link.

[[[. . . with Kitty Hayes, for a night of tunes, chat and oceans of tea.]]] If only there were more session opportunities in that vein. It sounds like heaven.

Tango, Balkan, musette, klezmer, etc., don't sound "quite right" on concertina, but it's not because repertoire wasn't written for it. A huge percentage of folk music was not "written" period, let alone for a specific instrument. It is because the concertina-reeded voice timbre is not heard as matching those genres well---Is that strictly cultural conditioning? Sure. Cultural conditioning can change, but there is no incentive for it to change regarding these genres, since accordion is vastly more versatile and useful for playing them, as well as vastly less expensive. I don't mean, premium accordions aren't super-expensive. But unlike concertinas, fast, responsive, and playable non-premium accordions can be had quite inexpensively, with more notes, more lung power, more different sounds to be had, and bass/chordal apparatus that allows the box to be a simple melody instrument or an entire band with the flip of a switch. If fast, responsive, very playable concertinas were available at similar prices, the musical possibilities they offer in such a small package, even though less than in an accordion, would probably be irresistible to enough charmed and delighted people for them to get that cultural niche. But that is not going to happen any time soon. BTW, tango, Balkan, musette, and klezmer sound great on high-quality accordion-reeded concertinas. Including or perhaps especially, high-quality baritone accordion-reeded concertinas.