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Posts posted by Notemaker

  1. 1 hour ago, Kathryn Wheeler said:

    What’s weird is that I’m ok with the index being 1 but, nope, the middle is rebelling at being 2 and the pinkie just has to be 5.  The ring finger is a bit confused 😆 

    I do get that you have internalized finger numbers from playing other things, indeed I too have a bit of that from studying Violin.


    To make progress with them, I disregard entirely finger numbers when reading the Anglo Concertina TAB/s.



  2. 46 minutes ago, Leah Velleman said:

    Bertram Levy, in his bandoneon-inspired book about fiddle tunes, uses this kind of intense system where roman numerals tell you which row, combinations like L13 tell you which hand and button, the letters C and A stand for, uh, push and pull in Spanish, and little bold numbers tell you which finger. Also, he numbers fingers like a piano player, so the index finger is 2, not 1.




    I never really got my head around it, but I imagine if I ever did it would be useful. (That goes for the whole book, honestly.)



    Well on my 30 BTN Jeffries type Anglo, ignoring rows for now, there is only one 'hands' position option, left or right. That is top-most, or bottom-most because there are 5 buttons in each row, and I have but 4 fingers, the thumb being too inconvenient to use.


    My system makes use of the properties of numbers to get rid of all that clutter, "RHS, LHS, P ( push ), D ( draw )" and so on.


    I use but two numbers for each button, because there are 2 notes under it. I chose to start counting from zero, 0, because it is an even number.


    Happily for me with just 15 buttons per side; of the numbers for any button, the first tells me which side - even numbers LHS, odd RHS - and which row to be on, 0=G,2=C,4=Accidentals ( are LHS ); while 1,3,5 same row names ( are RHS ); and the second ( number ) tells me bellows direction - even number indicate press, odd indicates draw. While of the options left, one of 0,2,4,6,8; if press, or 1,3,5,7,9 if draw, indicates the button 


    So for example '08' is LHS press bellows on the top-most button of the 'G' row, sounding the note D.


    After a while using this system I can nearly translate to it  from Garry Cover's tabs as I read a tab of a tune.



  3. 14 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

    There is (or can be) a loose correspondence between button and finger numbering:


    1 = button 1 ~= index finger;

    2 = button 2 ~= middle finger;

    3 = button 3 ~= ring finger;

    4 = button 4 ~= little finger


    it's not an exact/complete/constant link, but I find that it works reasonably well for a lot of the time. I've been doing it this way since ~2016. As it's symmetrical, this works for both Left and Right hand. Adding that extra 'finger' notation might make it awkward to read?...🙁


    Fingers are more of a feeling thing than, necessarily, a numbering thing. Because when I need to press a button with my index finger, I don't have to think ' finger No 1 go press key X', that is; there is no in-between thought process needed.



  4. 4 hours ago, Kathryn Wheeler said:

    It is lovely to develop your own way of relating to an instrument, yes.


    I still like to write things down though, not only because I get asked for dots and people ask how particular bits are played but because it’s really nice for me to have - and if I forget some details in future I’ve got it there.


    So if anyone else has any nifty ways of clearly showing finger choices without them getting confused with numbering for buttons that’d be interesting!

    Last para. Well you cannot have no button numbers at all, because then there would be no point in having a TAB of the music.



  5. Because my box has 3 rows of 5 buttons both ends;

    I use all 4 fingers on each. On each row, home position is the upper most buttons, and the only other one is lower position on the lower most buttons.

    I define these 5 buttons as a 'decade' of notes.

    Cross rowing is strictly observed, meaning the top most finger ALWAYS in each row press the top most button, or if shifted down the 2nd most top button.

    Ditto for the rest of the fingers.

    I developed a numbered button layout with some help here CN to navigate TABs that I just cannot get along with. Currently working on transcribing some tunes from those to it.

    Pic below.



  6. 8 hours ago, RAc said:

    So who is the account suspected? Michael Burke or Notemaker? Peter's quote implies the latter, but that does not appear to make sense, browsing their contrib history.

    Michael Burke is a music store in Dublin, think its called 'O'Nellies' or something similar. If I recall correctly, it sells cheap Chinese knockoffs, including black-wood Irish flutes - probably made in Asia and colored with black boot polish. Terrible junk IOW.


    Even-though I may have appeared bottish, I most certainly am no such a thing! And to be honest, I am slightly offended at the imposition. Nevertheless I do confess to being a bit of math nerd having created a couple of original hypotheses in it.


    Any-case, reviving this thread, if you check the date stamp/s, is the work of ' Michael Burke / O'Nellies' not my doing!

  7. 27 minutes ago, Michael Burke said:


    No, violin sheet music isn't directly compatible with Anglo C/G concertinas. Transposition and adaptation are usually necessary due to the instruments' differences in layout and tuning.

    Interesting point of view.


    Please tell me what is incompatible with my playing the attached music on my Jeffries layout Anglo 30 BTN C/G Concertina, choosing the most convenient fingering?





  8. 3 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

    [1] As ME has already hinted, I suspect you will have some trouble finding a program which can handle different button names for push and pull. I can see a way to do it, but it's not something I'd be eager to do...


    [2] That diagram had an error, and in the light of what you said subsequently, was 'incomplete'. Here is an amended version:


    This still looks pretty complicated to me...


    Have a look at Gary Coover's survey of tab systems in this thread - interesting - and scary...

    Thanks for the update.


    I have not looked at how I 'could' associate two digit numbers to ABC letters in a tune, but suspect that once gotten one of them, the rest should follow the same path.  After all, the stave does indicate the key, time values, etc. So really all I need to get on the bottom of it is a number below each note, instead of a letter. Assuming the Do Rhay Me model.


    Anyway, since it is for my own use it is not otherwise a bother.


    Thanks again.

  9. On 8/16/2023 at 1:57 AM, DaveRo said:

    I think you're looking for the facility to specify a personal keymap, rather like the ones that computers have to map a physical keyboard key press/release codes to the symbol (or function) that it means.

    Thank you for the comment.


    Yes! Personal at this time.

    I had defined the first group as follows; must have two digits in 5 pairs, to begin with Zero, one: so 0,1, 2,3 ... and so on.


    It suits me better because not only do the values indicate the  bellows direction, but also to which side, LHS or RHS, and to which row, and button they refer.


    So if first digit is even, then it is on the LHS. If  odd the opposite. Decade indicates which row, 0, 2, 4 (LHS IR, MR, OR),

    or 1, 3, 5. ( RHS IR, MR, OR); last digit indicates which button is required, always a number '0...9'.


    So in the first decade/row, which by definition is even, since Zero is defined as even; all the numbers are LHS inside row. Now the LHS middle row happily falls in the second decade, since 2 is even; thus for example bottom button middle row is 20,21 and so on. Likewise it will be found that the LHS accidental row is also an 'even' case, since 4 is even; thus the bottom button there is 40,41.


    On the RHS the decades/rows are odd, 1, IR; 3 MR; and 5 OR;


    So any random number between 0 and 59, we can predict which direction the bellows is to be moved, AND which side, LHS or RHS the button can be found, as well as the row and the precise button number.


    For example, '45', this is on the LHS outside/accidentals row of a C/G box, a draw bellows on the middle button of a 5 button row, in my case, Jeffries layout, it is D#. In Gary's tab it is 3A.


    A cheat sheet for the LHS / RHS row location index, where 'x' is any number ' 0 ... 9'.

    O, x = LHS IR; 2, x = LHS MR; 4, x = LHS OR;

    1, x = RHS IR; 3, x = RHS MR; 5, x = RHS OR;

    Numbers that occur where 'x' lies indicate bellow direction, even = press, odd = draw.


    I could not think of a simpler system for my own use, and may give some time to investigating a computer program to subscript my tune staves made from ABC with it.


    Thanks to Michael, above, and lachenal74693, illustration, and  for the wonderful thread.











  10. 3 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

    OK - like this?


    I have to say, I'm not convinced, for much the same reasons as those given by Michael Eskin...


    Personally, I don't much like these 'inner', 'outer', 'middle', row descriptors - I find them confusing, and they only say something about the position of each row, and nothing about the 'role' or 'function' of each row. To me, there are three rows, the 'accidental row', the 'home row', and the 'G/D/F-row' (depending on whether I am dealing with a C/G, G/D or Bb/F instrument). I'm probably in a minority of one as far as that's concerned...

    Yes ! That is it.


    I would use this system if making a tab for my own use, but not publish at this time.

    Thank you for the illustration.



  11. 2 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

    > Ok, hope it is not too confusing.


    I'm rather afraid it is a little. When you say 'outside row' do you mean 'accidentals row'? I'll see if I can construct a diagram...


    This is what I came up with (push is the top half of the buttons): 


    Is that what you meant? Disclaimer - constructed in the pub', while swilling Theakston's Mild - please blame Mr. Theakston for any errors...

    Envious of the Theakston's swilling, another life to me long ago.


    Well sort of yes ! But the 'inside row' is the 'G' row on a C/G box. Please forgive my non technical reading of this wonderful diagram, it appears that button 0,1 is illustrated as the bottom button LHS of the accidental row, or have I misread your diagram?


    If I did read it right, then swapping that, i.e top most row in your diagram, (on this page ), with the current bottom most row, ( on this page ), on both LHS and RHS would deliver what I originally imagined as a desirable layout.

    For those who wonder why I would want such a thing, consider this. All even numbers are 'press' bellows, and all odd numbers are draw. Then as the value increases so does the pitch, which to a nerdy math brain such as I, is a lovely thing! As to why nobody else has ever made such a plan, I have to say 'perhaps many have'.








  12. On 8/14/2023 at 2:14 AM, lachenal74693 said:

    I use a button numbering layout different to ME's default layout in my own stuff. I can't quite visualise that layout. Any chance that you could you supply a schematic of some kind illustrating the exact layout/button naming? You could use ME's program to do this😊



    Ok, hope it is not too confusing.


    Standard 30 button Anglo format, 5 buttons in each row.
    Zero is included to achieve push notes getting even, draw getting odd numbers. This system would have the odd advantage of telling the reader the bellows direction, odd numbers are draw out, even the opposite.


    Starting on the bottom button, inside row, LHS
    0,1 ; next button 2,3 ...and so on till the top button, so 8,9.
    Continuing on the RHS inside row, top button,
    10, 11 ; next button going DOWN the inside row, 12,13 ... and so on till
    last, on the bottom, 18,19.


    Now for the middle row, we start on the LHS bottom button with 20,21.. and
    following the same format as the inside row the top most button on the middle row is 28,29. On the RHS the top most button is 30,31  ...


    Ditto format for the outside row, counting from the bottom most button on the LHS, and so on.

  13. New to this wonderful topic! Thank you Michael for the great software / webpages,etc.


    My limited experience with Anglo tabs is very little, but working with Gary Coover's book I found that putting the LHS on the bottom of the stave, and the RHS on the top, saved a great deal of head scratching here. As well he employs your system of lines over the stave to indicate draw, but nothing to indicate press.


    That said, I would not have chosen to number the buttons in that way. Instead I would start with the inside row LHS bottom button as 1, the follow that scheme to the inside row RHS.


    Next taking the middle row with the next higher number up from the bottom most button on the RHS, onto its bottom button. Follow on through the middle row, and same plan for the outside row.


    Advantages; in each row the numbers increase with the pitch, and are read in the more natural way of left to right, same as most languages do with text. I think the next advantage is the logical perception that higher notes are going to be bigger numbers, as is the frequency of the pitch.


    Final consideration, popularity. Well I do not think it would be popular to begin with, but as soon as a few use it, then word will spread. For my beginner needs it would be infinitely better than the way I have to read it now. Because often, being a middling good note reader without a tab, I go get the pitch from memory off of the keyboard and ignore the tab.


    Again thanks for the super webpages! I will investigate how I might be able to use them.



  14. My experience leads me to suggest to you, buy the best that you can afford, no less.

    Because many beginner grade devalue as soon as you walk out of the store. A professional grade will appreciate as soon as you get it.


    Here in the USA,  really nice Concertinas are made by Wally Carrol,


    for example;   there are many positive reviews on them.


    There are other makers out here with superb products, but I like Wally's work best which offers an Irish style layout as standard with no need to customize. Yes these are expensive but its an investment not a cost!


    My history. Began with a really basic box, CC Rochelle, wore it out learning. Then sold it. A few years later at auction, won a lovely rarely used Crab Anglo. Sold it and bought from order a new box of traditional design, Suttner A2 with D drone. At my level of skill its a perfect fit.





    • Like 1
  15. 22 hours ago, d.elliott said:

    I fear that you may not have done any more that treat a symptom, odds are that there is a damaged (cracked) reed tongue. You may well find that the reed will start to flatten again, and again and again. I hope that my fears all ill founded.


    Well done for having a go and getting your result



    Thanks Dave, very useful reply.


    When out had a wee look at it, did not detect anything unusual, but I am no expert. Suspect a bit of metal came off the heel end, its new, which flattened it. However that said, I've no idea where, or how, to get a replacement tongue if it does have a crack. Mention of which, how is a crack detected? besides the obvious close magnified image? Do you use a strong light? or xray?

  16. Going out to the first 'session' since the lockdown, it was all Guitars, a couple of Harmonicas, a Bodhrawn, and a Tenor Banjo. The event was mostly songs going around a circle. But here is the catch, there were mics and an amp.

    Now definitely was not pressing harder on my bellows, yet nevertheless on arriving home and doing a quick inspection, find ( Push )C 1 middle row RHS making a wee buzz, then later falling in pitch a wee bit. Check with Tuner App on my Phone, I have about 5 cent flat and an ugly sound against G 3 RHS. Too against the lower octave, very ugly!

    So! with what is here about this topic, and some Harmonica tuning tools, took a few licks off the tip of the offending reed. Mind you, had to put it back into the box / try out 3 times, because the tuner ok'd my first go, though the pitch would drift down on a strong bellow ( home made tuning bench )press. On the second it looked right but sounded a wee bit flat, so did another two licks over the tip. Spot on with a soft bellow, slight lowering with a strong bellow but rock solid otherwise.


    Back in the box this renewed 'C' is spot on with 'g' above, and the octave. It is dead on with draw 'C' LHS inside row.


    Had I not been following here and reading your posts, would have had a very expensive repair.


    So to the makers, and tweakers here, thank you each and all :0)


    Happy festival weekend.



    • Like 1
  17. If I did not work in tiny screws in other things I would not have an opinion. Well I do, and so I have.


    In my experience Phillips 'cross' head screws are infinitely better than slot head. Because a tool head is locked into the center and cannot slip off as would a flat spade head screw driver in a slot head screw.


    As to the look of it, TBH I do not think it matters as much as quality of sound.

    But if I were to re-design how the instrument is built, then the button / plunger is where I would make drastic changes.


    First of all, the button rod needs be far longer, seated in a deeper well, sprung in the well bottom with coil spring, and  made of light metal/wire , not wood. Yes re-springing would then be more difficult, yet the benefit of firm travel with zero wobble, and longer lasting spring is more than enough to justify the design.






  18. 28 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

    Maybe your sound recording was not perfect; but it sounded fine to me when I listened the other day. It my be that you are worrying to much over the perceived issue.

    Absolutely correct! The problem it now appears, is my over sensitive hearing. So accustomed that, over time, one forgets it is there. So, no! not making any adjustments. In particular, as Wally says, a re-centered tongue likely will then foul on the chamber slot sides. Thank you for re-assuring me.

  19. 4 hours ago, Wally Carroll said:

    This is subjective of course but I find that push notes often don’t sound as nice as pull notes of the same pitch as different overtones get accentuated in each.  If you were to swap the two E notes and reassemble (assuming a good fit) I wouldn’t be surprised if the problem shifted to the ‘new’ push E. 

    Thanks Wally :0) I am no expert, only learned a bit over the years on Harmonicas. But you are correct, if reversed the problem will be with the draw reed in the push slot. Must say, last time had to adjust a tongue, the problem, an over wide end gap making it a very air greedy reed to sound, solved with a tiny poke on the losed tang. Then used a strong back light to keep the gap tight but not too much so.


    It is a dreadful thing to undo those two wee screws, because one never knows if there is a low spot on the tang where the tongue wants to go back under the screw tip/s. I was lucky last time. Happily this occasion does not, at this point, warrant any action. Could be better lined up with the shoe but, then again, might be worse sounding afterwards. Old saying applies, 'ain't broke, don't fix'. Thanks for helping.

  20. Have a couple of newish naughty steel reeds still wearing in.  One, RHS push E is making an extra sound as well as the fundamental. It's like a metal pot scrape sound. Hopefully can share my MP3 of it here. The second one is the C# push on the RHS outside row. In each case included a sample of the draw E, C# to compare.


    In fairness to my little MP3 recorder, it doesn't quite get the full effect of the extra sound.


    Removed the E reed,  tested on a bench blower;  it does the same thing outside the instrument. Did not do that to other because it appears to be the same thing.


    On inspection of the E reed and shoe, it looks slightly off to one side, that is, on the long edges, the gap between frame and tongue looks to be off. A few years ago reset a reed tongue in its shoe and I hesitate to do it again.


    Since the reed developed its naughty habits after some time playing in, I suspect it moved in the frame over time.


    Any suggestions welcome.

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