Posts posted by Notemaker
22 hours ago, d.elliott said:
I fear that you may not have done any more that treat a symptom, odds are that there is a damaged (cracked) reed tongue. You may well find that the reed will start to flatten again, and again and again. I hope that my fears all ill founded.
Well done for having a go and getting your result
Thanks Dave, very useful reply.
When out had a wee look at it, did not detect anything unusual, but I am no expert. Suspect a bit of metal came off the heel end, its new, which flattened it. However that said, I've no idea where, or how, to get a replacement tongue if it does have a crack. Mention of which, how is a crack detected? besides the obvious close magnified image? Do you use a strong light? or xray?
Going out to the first 'session' since the lockdown, it was all Guitars, a couple of Harmonicas, a Bodhrawn, and a Tenor Banjo. The event was mostly songs going around a circle. But here is the catch, there were mics and an amp.
Now definitely was not pressing harder on my bellows, yet nevertheless on arriving home and doing a quick inspection, find ( Push )C 1 middle row RHS making a wee buzz, then later falling in pitch a wee bit. Check with Tuner App on my Phone, I have about 5 cent flat and an ugly sound against G 3 RHS. Too against the lower octave, very ugly!
So! with what is here about this topic, and some Harmonica tuning tools, took a few licks off the tip of the offending reed. Mind you, had to put it back into the box / try out 3 times, because the tuner ok'd my first go, though the pitch would drift down on a strong bellow ( home made tuning bench )press. On the second it looked right but sounded a wee bit flat, so did another two licks over the tip. Spot on with a soft bellow, slight lowering with a strong bellow but rock solid otherwise.
Back in the box this renewed 'C' is spot on with 'g' above, and the octave. It is dead on with draw 'C' LHS inside row.
Had I not been following here and reading your posts, would have had a very expensive repair.
So to the makers, and tweakers here, thank you each and all :0)
Happy festival weekend.
If I did not work in tiny screws in other things I would not have an opinion. Well I do, and so I have.
In my experience Phillips 'cross' head screws are infinitely better than slot head. Because a tool head is locked into the center and cannot slip off as would a flat spade head screw driver in a slot head screw.
As to the look of it, TBH I do not think it matters as much as quality of sound.
But if I were to re-design how the instrument is built, then the button / plunger is where I would make drastic changes.
First of all, the button rod needs be far longer, seated in a deeper well, sprung in the well bottom with coil spring, and made of light metal/wire , not wood. Yes re-springing would then be more difficult, yet the benefit of firm travel with zero wobble, and longer lasting spring is more than enough to justify the design.
28 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:
Maybe your sound recording was not perfect; but it sounded fine to me when I listened the other day. It my be that you are worrying to much over the perceived issue.
Absolutely correct! The problem it now appears, is my over sensitive hearing. So accustomed that, over time, one forgets it is there. So, no! not making any adjustments. In particular, as Wally says, a re-centered tongue likely will then foul on the chamber slot sides. Thank you for re-assuring me.
4 hours ago, Wally Carroll said:
This is subjective of course but I find that push notes often don’t sound as nice as pull notes of the same pitch as different overtones get accentuated in each. If you were to swap the two E notes and reassemble (assuming a good fit) I wouldn’t be surprised if the problem shifted to the ‘new’ push E.
Thanks Wally :0) I am no expert, only learned a bit over the years on Harmonicas. But you are correct, if reversed the problem will be with the draw reed in the push slot. Must say, last time had to adjust a tongue, the problem, an over wide end gap making it a very air greedy reed to sound, solved with a tiny poke on the losed tang. Then used a strong back light to keep the gap tight but not too much so.
It is a dreadful thing to undo those two wee screws, because one never knows if there is a low spot on the tang where the tongue wants to go back under the screw tip/s. I was lucky last time. Happily this occasion does not, at this point, warrant any action. Could be better lined up with the shoe but, then again, might be worse sounding afterwards. Old saying applies, 'ain't broke, don't fix'. Thanks for helping.
Have a couple of newish naughty steel reeds still wearing in. One, RHS push E is making an extra sound as well as the fundamental. It's like a metal pot scrape sound. Hopefully can share my MP3 of it here. The second one is the C# push on the RHS outside row. In each case included a sample of the draw E, C# to compare.
In fairness to my little MP3 recorder, it doesn't quite get the full effect of the extra sound.
Removed the E reed, tested on a bench blower; it does the same thing outside the instrument. Did not do that to other because it appears to be the same thing.
On inspection of the E reed and shoe, it looks slightly off to one side, that is, on the long edges, the gap between frame and tongue looks to be off. A few years ago reset a reed tongue in its shoe and I hesitate to do it again.
Since the reed developed its naughty habits after some time playing in, I suspect it moved in the frame over time.
Any suggestions welcome.
Very nice book.
Kindle version, now working the first tune, ' The Banshee'. Noticed on both parts reverse bellows from Push G to draw D, MR LHS 5P 3D ..it first occurs in Bar 2 first part. In other bars the same phrase occurs.
I know this may not be accurate for most players, but I am 'used' to getting my low D on the push off the inside row. And it does not feel as if it is wrong - because there are two bellows changes using the book setting.
Please correct me if wrong.
11 hours ago, Takayuki YAGI said:
I think "The Roscommon Reel" and "The Rookery". But I may be wrong. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Yes ! both are correct.
Thank you for helping.
A Happy New Year to all.
Thanks for helping. The last two reels are 'The Humors Of Castlefin', and 'The Wise Maid', AKA 'The Merry Ploughboy' in some parts of Scotland.
What are the names of the first two ? Thanks in advance for helping,
T: On The Top Of Cork Road
R: jigM: 6/8
"D"dAF DFA|"G"Bed "A"cBA|"D"d2d "A"efg|"D"fdf "A"ecA|
"D"dAF DFA|"G"Bed "A"cBA|"D"d2d "A"efg|1 "D"fdd d3:|2 fdd d2||
|:g|"D"fdf fga|"A"ecA ABc|"Bm"d2d fed|"A"cAA A2c|
"G"BGB Bcd|"D"AFD DFA|"G"dcd "A"efg|1 "D"fdd d2:|2 "D"fdd d3||
Love the tunes, great playing as well. What make of Concertina do you use? Is it an Anglo?
I would love to be able to play those tunes but I am no expert, still learning from Alan Day's excellent tutor.
Perhaps you might consider a selection of easier tunes for beginners?
Thank you again for the wonderful music, I am very impressed.
Best regards ..
On 12/14/2022 at 2:11 PM, Luke Hillman said:
I didn't even know this was a thing. Thank you!
This comment raises more questions for me. Since you mention harmonica, I'm compelled to ask: are you talking about starting with a 30-button C/G Anglo? Or have you somehow learned to do harmonica-style pitch-bending on a 20b C/G?
For my part, I truly am agnostic on tunings (well, aside from finding the lower ones more pleasing) unless I'm trying to play in a particular key.
Well not bending notes on the Concertina, but talking about similarity between the C/G Anglo and a standard C Harmonica, or a G Harmonica. Sorry for the error.
Unusual for me to comment on such a topic, yet feel that, in this case, must.
Decades of playing 'Irtrad', and folk tunes on Harmonica have taught me a great lesson; we can play a D scale tune on a diatonic tuned G instrument.
So if we elect to start off with the C/G Anglo Concertina; already, with barely one cross row button, can easily play the D scale on it. Bonus, without any effort, can also play tunes in C Major, A Minor, F Major; and off of the G row, A Major, needn't mention E Minor because, well! its a pig on any system, yet a nice pig because when we get that far in, just a bit more fun.
Now about the idea that G/D instrument is easier than the C/G, yes! but as mentioned above, only for a few tunes.
It can be a very bad idea if our compass includes Classical, Folk, Morris, because most of that is done with the C/G.
Over my time on CN I have read some lovely stories about the hobby. Among those a few loved so much that I saved them, and their entire thread, to my local data drive.
Being the Holiday season, today meandering through it, I came upon a couple bringing back to me lovely memories of times past.
So wishing all the wonderful community a joyful season, I commend to you the same.
15 hours ago, dirishfluter said:
Thanks folks for your responses. I am very excited to say I will soon be the lucky owner of an Edgely concertina. Onward and upward. : )
A wise choice, great instruments, well made and supported.
19 hours ago, Peter Laban said:
Concentrating Irish Traditional Music is the same as wanting to learn one song on guitar? Some of the stuff people come out with on these forums keeps amazing me. And I'll leave it at that.
You are off topic, wildly so. But I do not sink to your C&F troll level by insulting you,
On 11/16/2022 at 8:16 PM, dirishfluter said:
Hello - I don't post much here, but I've been slowly learning Irish tunes on my 20b Lachenal in C/G with steel reeds for the last few years, and I am starting to feel that the 5-fold bellows and somewhat soggy action and slow reed response (compared to other makes) is limiting my ability. The little Lachenal is great fun, and was put back in playing order by Greg J. when I first got it (it was near death), but I'd like to continue with a nicer, more responsive instrument. With that in mind I believe now is a good time time to move up to a 30b.
I know the technology and makers are always changing and advancing, but I really don't keep up with that side of things so I'd appreciate any recommendations for C/G Anglo instruments in the price range of $1500-2500 US. For reference, I have about 12 years experience playing Irish (mostly uilleann pipes, flute, and whistles), and on concertina consider myself an "intermediate" level player. I've briefly tried a friends Phoenix and also a Morse and quite liked both of them. Goal here is to play Irish jigs and reels, etc at session speed. I am located in the mid-west. Thanks in advance!
12 years is a long time playing on anything!
Well, you have done your research and now you want to confirm what you already know.
But first, may I ask what did you want to achieve with your previous instruments besides sessioning?
I ask because I have experience with other genres besides Irish folk dance music, and think that an adherence to any genre alone is narrow, rather like learning Guitar to play 'Sultans Of Swing' on TikTok. Like how many of those are there? probably thousands.
So, like I see many who embraced playing the Flute, one ought to get the best quality possible on day one. IOW wasting time with an inferior quality instrument is little use when the mechanics of performance so much depend on quality of build. Nowhere is that more critical than with the free feed family.
Too, accordion reeded Concertinas lose value like a new car, 30% of it as soon as you walk out the door of the shop where you bought it.
OTOH Concertinas with real concertina reeds in them increase in value as time passes. Why? Well for one thing they sound miles better than the Chinese made instruments do. For another, the bellows and action is infinitely better quality; the latter is probably the most essential player difference. Yes you can learn to play fancy on a cheapo box, but you'd have learned far quicker on a new Carroll, for example, or a classic Crabb or Jeffries, not to forget the superb quality found in the Suttner instruments. Those are very, very popular in Ireland these days, and I can hear why. Then there are other makers here on this site who's work is outstanding, need I mention Colin Dipper?
But if Irish trad in the US is sessioning on Phoenix and similar, hey go with the flow :0). For my part I also love Morris and folk singing with the Anglo backing it. So those types would not pass the test of sounding, even closely, like the classic English built instrument.
14 minutes ago, Wally Carroll said:
Yeah that looks correct. The idea for the left side is that you have the same push/pull note locations for the A G and D notes on the two left most buttons in each row. Pull on first button and push on second button.
Thank you Wally. I can now publish Noel Hill's layout on my Flicker page :0)
10 hours ago, Wally Carroll said:
Your first layout is the basic Jeffries layout and of the three, it is the one I would choose for Irish music. However, because I don’t use d# all that much I would change right hand side top row first button on left to a c# both directions.
Noel experiments with a bunch of different layouts. What he recommends for students is the right side as I have described and the left side with a low A in place of the low F on the first button top row and a D (same as middle button pull note on left) on the first button on G row on the pull.
Thank you Wally. That explains Noel Hill's recommended layout very well. Below my reading of your directions, which may save some typing.
Thank you Wally, this is what I suspected of makers model button layout.
Several sites mention this but do not actually diagram it.
So what is the Irish version of Jeffries button layout?
I attach three diagrams I made from reading comments about it and wonder which is 'Irish layout' correct.
Secondly one author states he used Neol Hill's button layout, so what is that?
That's the whole answer! Thank you.
This comes to mind when I try out an unfamiliar instrument. I must say my late Crabb Anglo is very comfortable, but the Rochelle, I used have, was not! And my newer rig, a splendid modern make, feels tighter than the Crabb.
Wondering if there are set patterns for small - medium - large, hands?
Thanks in advance.
2 hours ago, Doug Barr said:
What email are you using?
PM in private thanks
Thanks to all who shared and taugh me so much! Saved my bacon this night, read on!
in Instrument Construction & Repair
When you say 'gradual', is it over a few minutes? or hours? or days/weeks of playing?