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Everything posted by 4to5to6
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Key-layout for a tenor-treble English Concertina
4to5to6 replied to Abel Miser's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
The most important details in the description are bass / baritone / treble / piccolo so you know where the middle C button is... piccolo plays an octave higher, baritone an octave lower and G Bass, two octaves lower (and C1 contrabass 3 octaves lower if it exists) as related to the treble all with 48 buttons. The second most important thing is the location of the thumb straps in connection with the C button on the LH side but this is never described. There is always going to be a compromise with the terminology (such as calling a “tenor” a “tenor treble” and back and forth) because some follow the modern descriptions and some refer to the Ledgers / price lists descriptions. For a bit of trivia… My model 15 really messes people up. I am careful to call it a baritone treble (not a treble baritone) as the middle C is in the traditional treble position as a treble on the LH side. This baritone ranged Aeola goes down a 4th lower than a tenor treble, 4 octaves from G to G with the same 56 buttons. However, I would not describe it as taking a row off the top and adding one on the bottom as the layout is completely different. I’ll attach a couple of photos to show my point. The fingering pattern looks to be completely opposite but you don’t notice this while playing it and find it similar to a TT with extra low notes. I find having the middle C still on the LH side much more intuitive than the reversed baritone. Note the layout with reference to the pinky slides / thumb straps. It took me a while to wrap my head around this one. 56 button, Model 19, C to C, Tenor Treble: 56 button, Model 14, G to G, Baritone Treble: . -
Help with extremely moldy borrowed concertina?
4to5to6 replied to Sionainn's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
You can purchase a small inexpensive ozone machine on Amazon that charges from a USB port. I find these very helpful for freshening up a bellows with an old musty smell. -
Electroplating wooden core buttons
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I would like to preserve the wood in it’s original condition as much as possible. I could wrap and twist a piece of copper wire around the base of the cap for the electrical connection. I think the dual wall adhesive lined shrink tube is the best idea so far. I’ve had to peel this off of electrical connections many times and it sticks but always comes off clean. I’ve never used it on wood but it should be fine. Thanks for all the advice. -
Electroplating wooden core buttons
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Adrian. I never thought of shrink tube. I have some of the double wall type with a sticky inside glue layer. You can pinch the open end closed and it should seal. Awesome idea. I’ll try it. . -
Electroplating wooden core buttons
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Theo. Good idea. Silicone caps are available to cover bolt threads, etc. while electroplating. I guess I could just tape them up tight but was wondering if there is a product like a thick plastic or maybe wax I could dip the wood in and easily peel off later. -
A 48 button set of wooden core gold plated Aeola buttons needs to be freshened up. The plan is to electro clean, rinse, activate, rinse, electroplate a nickel diffusion barrier all by full immersion in heated baths and then brush plate on about 5 microns of cobalt hardened bright 24K gold with a wand. The wooden cores are the problem. The metal caps are crimped on hard so can’t be removed. The wood needs to be sealed somehow so I can do the rinses properly to avoid cross contamination of the baths. Any ideas? The ends, pinky slides, thumb strap screws and loops were gold plated today and originally I was going to leave it at this but decided the end bolts and buttons, little and long screw ends. This amazing one of a kind piccolo deserves the love 😍
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That's an interesting icon on your profile
4to5to6 replied to SIMON GABRIELOW's topic in General Concertina Discussion
I just updated mine... 5-1/2" gold ended piccolo Aeola on top and 11-1/2" double action G bass Aeola on the bottom. One of a kind Wheatstones. Thought it was an interesting photo. -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Alex. Good idea! Stainless steel shim stock. Do you have any photos? How did you attach them? -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Chris. I sent Darlene an email a few days ago but never pursued it. I’ve been a bit distracted. I just received an amazing little gold ended piccolo EC and can’t set it down even though unrestored and in lower A435 French pitch. I’ve been playing Bach’s Little fugue in G minor on it or at least learning it. Simply amazing instrument! So much fun. I’ll pursue the pneumatic leather early next week and let everyone know. Hopefully they will sell me some smaller quantities so I can try making valves in assorted thicknesses to sort out the lower notes of my tenor treble. I was just tweaking my double action Aeola G Bass last night and noticed some valves have one and sometimes two layers of a reinforcement mylar laminated on top of the leather to reinforce them. Brilliant idea. Lower notes sound full rounded, rich and powerful, no pops or blurps at all. I’ll attach a photo hopefully tomorrow. I may try this out on my TT and see if it helps. Thanks again for everyone’s help. . -
1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos
4to5to6 replied to Luke Hillman's topic in General Concertina Discussion
I emailed TonalEnergy… I will let you know what they say. Here’s an Interesting YouTube video I just found while cruising their website... good demonstration of Just vs. ET. Shameless promotion for their app of course (nice grin) but good demo. I have absolutely no connection with these guys; I just found out about them about a week ago and have been raving about their ap ever since. Just found out they also have an Apple/Windows version as well. . -
1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos
4to5to6 replied to Luke Hillman's topic in General Concertina Discussion
The reference note can be changed but I usually leave A4 at 440Hz as a reference to tune to other instruments. Interesting… I will email them and see what they say. It is easy to modify the offset table or even create a new User temperament. I learned to count beats when I tuned pianos many years ago but now just use a “computer” tuner. Sad but true. 😭 I will try your suggestions and listen to them. The ap has a function to do this. What would you suggest for the enharmonics Eb/D# and Ab/G# in cents? I have a piccolo English coming today or tomorrow that’s in original C517.3 / A435 Continental pitch that needs to be raised slightly and may just do it in 1/4 comma meantone for fun. Thanks. . I -
1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos
4to5to6 replied to Luke Hillman's topic in General Concertina Discussion
I also use the Total Energy tuning app. It was the only app that was successfully able to pick up the notes of my G bass. It has become my go to app for all instruments. And, as Alex said, you pick A4=440 Hz as your reference note and the offsets are calculated from there. Here are the offsets for 1/4 comma mean tone: -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Chris, I’ve sent Columbia an email requesting small quantities in various thicknesses. Jake, what is the most common type and thicknesses used for valves? I have a piccolo, TT, model 14 and G bass. I am going to hopefully put an order together for Columbia Organ leathers. I’ve never purchased from them before. What is the best leather to use for pads? I should also get some pad leather as well. Thanks for all the help. . -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
My large Gbass Aeola has the plastic reinforcing strips supporting the larger valves. I think David Robertson did the work. I have seen small wire springs run down the center of the valve supporting the tip. I always thought the plastic or wire was there to keep the valve closed and to prevent the large valve from curling up. I never considered a flutter problem while the valve is open. I wonder if this is what is happening??? Interesting. . -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Theo. I’ll check the valve again. Interesting that the valve would make this sound… Maybe the two reeds / two valves are interacting in some way. I am searching for sources of pneumatic leather in small quantities. I will punch out my own valves. -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Thanks Greg. I’ll search around. I was resisting making valves but will make up a bunch of punches. It’s time. Maybe a few of us can go in together and get a few hides. I’m still enjoying that model 14 56B baritone G to G treble I got from you a few years back. Ends were replated and wood work French polished. It looks and sounds amazing. I was told I would most likely find a purple unicorn first but you came through. Thanks again. -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I was searching as well and could only see CDL in extra heavy duty. Screen capture below. I never got to the check out level or even to the prices but not sure Columbia Leather is an option as I don’t need 6-10 sq ft typical hide size and need to get a number of thicknesses. I am sure this would be very expensive. Is there another source in smaller quantities? Say about 1 or 2 sq ft of 3 or 4 thicknesses? I own everything from a piccolo to a G bass (leather with mylar supported valves) but mostly play my amboyna tenor treble. The immediate need is for a few low notes in a very very nice golden era tenor treble Aeola that I want to soon sell but need it to be perfect first. -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
What is a good source for pneumatic leather preferably in North America but anywhere is fine? I have a number of spares on hand but I think it’s time I built some different size valve punches and made a good selection to keep on hand of different sizes and thicknesses. This would help with this type of problem and also help to do voicing. Thanks again 😄 . -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Ok. Sounds like the jury is back and it’s the valve that is the culprit. I wish I knew better exactly why the valve acts like this and causes this sound when it looks perfectly fine. I will try a different valve. Thanks. . -
EC tuning mystery solved....I think
4to5to6 replied to Matthew Heumann's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I’ve always wondered about this. Thanks. The Pythagorean Comma: As a former piano tuner, temperaments are a fascinating topic although the topic can be very controversial. Why oh why couldn't all the intervals just be pure in all keys? Is this Heaven? I highly recommend the book: How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony: And Why You Should Care by Ross W. Duffin . -
Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.
4to5to6 replied to 4to5to6's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Valves look good, flap up and down fine, are not curled… The Instrument hasn’t been played in a while. Maybe things need to just loosen up again. -
Please listen to the attached audio files. I’ve come across this a few times over the years and it is still a mystery to me. I get a “blurpy”, raspy sounding low note only on the pull (outside chambered reed). Valves are new maybe 5 years ago and look great still, reed is the perfect fit into the wood…. tongue gaps are fine… What am I missing? Has anyone heard this before? What is the solution? New Recording 1492.m4a New Recording 1490.m4a .
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Bass bolt is done! Thanks for all the great advice. Milling attachment for my lathe worked perfectly to cut the slot. I just gently clamped the bolt into a quick change tool holder and had full control in all directions. Photos below. The new bolt is next to a 2-1/8” bass bolt for comparison. I made it a bit longer then the requested 2-1/4” and also increased the length of the threads. It may need to be trimmed but better too long than too short. I’ll send it off next week. If it fits, I’ll make the rest of the set. Threads fit into my Aeolas and a mid 1800s treble as well as a late 1800s Lachenal baritone so 5BA threads on a 0.086 8BA is it. Thanks again for all the awesome advice and help. .
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Threads are a success. I ended up redoing the lathe work on the die to line it up better and building a heavier back guide shaft. I used a dial gauge and good bolt to size and center the chasers. First bolt threads were a 100% success! Very clean and even threads. However it took a long time to machine down the brass so I will need another tool similar to the die without threads to size the shaft to 0.086. I think I have some ideas. A three point cutter. The bolt cheese head was a challenge and on nearly the last cut, the bit caught the brass and bent the shaft and the head snapped off. There’s always tomorrow 😄. The good news is that the threads are a success and I was able to try them out on a few concertinas. Ideas to size a 0.086 shaft, 2.25” long with a 0.162” diameter head are welcome. Photos attached. .
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The 6 bolts around the perimeter are for adjusting the three chasers and the 6 bolts on the face will then clamp the chasers into place. I’ll use an existing 5BA 0.086 bolt as a starting place with all parts in the lathe for correct center alignment. This should be a good starting place then will tweak it to get it perfect. I’ll find out today. .