Dan 04617

They want me to play something for the summer solstice event at the hall down the road. I'm in the beginner catagory, still. Can anybody point me at something seasonally appropriate? All the solstice music seems to be for the one six months from now.

Oops. Above I have a chart of what keys produce what notes. I made this chart up months ago. Unfortunately it's wrong. 519 is a G/D Jeffries. The chart is a G/D Wheatstone layout. Here's the Proper layout: Left Side (Push/Pull) Right Side (Push/Pull) B/C E/F G#/A# E/D D#/F A#/G# G#/A# D#/D G#/F E/A G/D D/F# G/A B/C D/E G/F# B/A D/C G/E B/F# F#/E A/C# D/E F#/G A/B D/C# F#/E A/G D/B C/C#

Thanks for the input guys. I'll put it away properly, and I do think it fits properly. It's just that the top of the corner blocks could have been curved so that there isn't that sharp corner. As long as I squeeze it together well before I put it in there I don't have a problem, and either it's getting easier or I'm getting trained. I've been putting it in with the handles vertical and I'm not certain that the screws could rub if they wanted to.

Okay, busy weekend with other things and I've still been playing with 519 a lot. The girlfriend was a little wry when she noted that as she got up to shower and go to church, I reached for the concertina. But since this is a new experience, having a real concertina rather than a Stagi or Hohner concertina shaped object, I figure I should make some comments. I think there are a lot of good observations by experienced players, but I hope my perspective as a newbie will be useful too. First, it's really nice. The movement of the buttons is so much faster than the old options. The buttons come up straight every time. And it's beautiful. And it's loud. Compared to this, the Stagi sounds like it's being played inside a heavy sleeping bag. You can hear the sound in the Stagi, but you hear the sound project out of the Morse. Since this is a G/D box, it's got to be stepped about a half octave away from a C/G box. It's stepped down. The low G (bottom button, middle row, left side) is very low. By starting there, I've been playing Thus Spoke Zarathustra relativly convincingly. That short tune runs all the way up the other side and is a fun way to demonstrate the range of the instrument. I also notice that after the button is released and the pad covers the hole, the reed keeps vibrating. Only the player would really hear it, but it sounds like a jew's harp inside the bellows. And that it's in the bellows is funny too, because the sound of the note proper projects out the side. The standard six fold bellows is smaller than the eight-folds-plus-frame of the Stagi, or the nine-folds-plus-two-frames of the Hohner. I'd been told that in proper traditional and hybrid concertinas, fewer folds are needed because they use air more efficiently. This is true. However, if I'm not careful I'll use that air to make louder noise more efficently, rather than to have the note sustain longer. I'm finding that I'll need to learn better air management with 519. This may also mean that I need to think about playing in styles where I'm allowed, without actually playing a note at the time, to take a breath or let one out. The responsiveness of the reeds and the rigidity of the bellows means that much more control needs to be used. On the Stagi, I more or less pressurize the bellows and play. Variations in pressure produce minimal variations in the note produced. With the Morse, variations in pressure can produce more complex changes in the note. My slight unsteadiness as I try to play soft and conserve air produces a vibrato impossible in the Stagi. Where the Morse produces a soft note under very light pressure, the Stagi would have given up making sound and just leaked air. I'm still finding my way around the keyboard. I've figured out the C scale, but I haven't practiced the A scale much yet. I'll get to them all in time, and I'm feeling my way around blues scales too. Several months ago I sat down and figured out what the layout would be, transposing from C/G to G/D in Jefferies layout. Left Hand Side (Push/Pull) Right Hand Side (Pull/Push) ------------------------------- ------------------------------- B/C E/F G#/Bb E/D Eb/F Bb/G# D/E F/Eb Bb/G# C/E G/D D/F# G/A B/C D/E F#/G A/B C/D E/G F#/B F#/A A/C# D/E F#/G A/B C#/D E/F# G/A B/D C#/F# (Forum software formats this nicely when composing and editing, then makes a mess of it once it's posted and displayed. Sorry folks.) It feels a little funny still reaching for the low E/F and G#/Bb in the left far row. I'm trying to not reach for the E/F using my ring finger, but to use it for the G#/Bb and my little finger for E/F. I assume this is the sort of self taught "mistake to unlearn" that was discussed in another thread, and I hope I've got it right. Unlike my previous boxes, there are no closure straps on this one. It's supposed to be carefully put away after playing. Wedging it safely into the storage box every time does not come naturally to me. I tend to leave things lying about and I'm generally a lousy housekeeper. Every time I manage to stuff it in there, I wonder if I'm doing it right because it seems like such a tight fit. Perhaps if the corner bolsters had a rounded ramp leading it into position, rather than a sharp angle to grind it past, I'd feel more comfortable about the proceedure. Anyway, it's time to put another coat of gypsum mud on the sheetrock in the guest room. I gotta go.

G/D Jeffries layout. Ordered June 11. Shipped October 11. Arrived a half hour ago. Thank you Richard. Dan

I think it's a dressed up band-onion.

If I had it to do again and knew I'd stick with it, I'd get a Rochelle as my first instrument. Hohners and Stagis are sort of "concertina shaped objects" which have little resale value and a tendancy toward stuck buttons once played for any length of time. (I have one of each.) I'll throw in another nod toward the Niall Vallely/Mad for Trad CDRom tutorial. For me it was the link between having the Hohner sit on my shelf for eight years, and actually learning to play it. Please note that even though they don't supply the air for the instrument, some players breathe along with it subconciously, or at least make weird faces. It might be good exercise. It might kill you. (probably not though.) You'd have to play for your doctor to get a reasonable opinion.

O si bili, si ergo fortibuses en ero demaint busses demis trux watis inem? cowsen dux.

Some here are Americans. Our English isn't very good either. My first box was a D40. It's fun. Enjoy it. Eventually you'll wear it out. The buttons will start sticking and the valves won't close properly, but by then you'll be an addict and they'll have you, so start thinking about what you want in your next concertina now.

If you don't sight read, start staring at sheet music to what you already know how to play while you play it. You'll learn.

A Rochelle? No I don't think so. Rochelles are a beginners instrument (although a high quality one by their reputation here) and I've really had enough of that. Now a Clover... That's a different issue. From the sound of it, if I hadn't a) already ordered a G/D Ceili, and b ) didn't have a bias toward more local products and generally against Chinese products when avoidable, then I'd be at least curious about the Clover in G/D. On 21 August, Wim said:

Thank you Lucy. You may not have much experience, but it sounds like you have just a hair more than I do. I got Dave Elliot's book a week or two ago. It was the first time I've seen the insides of anything resembling a real concertina. I was shocked. It quickly explained why my Hohner and my Stagi both get sticking crooked buttons. A couple months ago I had a chance to hold someone's Lachenal for about 30 seconds, and again it was a revalatory experience. The action and reed response was so much better! The bellows were so much more stable! I've been trying to keep up playing square and contra dances (mostly for six year olds and their parents). On a slow night we have me on the Stagi, a guitar, a fiddle, and either a piano or a piano accordion. And two squares of dancers and a caller. Then I can barely hear myself play. On a full night we have me, two guitars, two fiddles, banjo, mandolin, piano, cello, piano accordion, and a flute. And the caller and about 40 couples dancing. I can't hear a thing I do with the Stagi. There are some band members who are very friendly and encouraging. There are a couple who think they are but who are actually patronizing instead. Because I only have A/D on the Stagi, and we never play in A, I can only play about half the repetoir, and I nearly blew a gasket when one of the patronizing ones told me to sing instead a few weeks back. I had been just playing a drum until he badgered me into knocking that off and working harder on the concertina. At least I was getting competent to keep simple rythm on the drum. On songs I don't have too much trouble with (for instance Red River Valley) I find myself clutching the (unused for that song)whole left side of the box, playing with my right, trying to force enough air through the thing to get it loud enough that I can hear it. Somehow I didn't think that I was supposed to develop calouses, or dimples, on my fingertips from playing a concertina. I'm really looking forward to my Ceili. In the last couple weeks I've been learning things about the Ceili's construction, history, and competition here on C.net. I guess I still don't fully understand the difference between concertina and accordion reeds, beyond the way they're mounted.

http://www.janesoceania.com/australian_abo...usic/index1.htm

...And I'm anxiously awaiting mine....

Sorry. What I meant was that I have trouble smoothly moving between five buttons in a row using four fingers. Six or seven buttons in a row seem beyond my expected level of potentialy learned dexterity. My fingers are wide and short, very useful for opening jar lids and maintaining a tight grip, but not of a form often seen on the hands of the best musicians. The hair on my knuckles simply demonstrates that I don't wear it all off by dragging them on the ground all the time. You have a very nice instrument there Woody. Can you tell me anything about your technique for moving up and down the row?

See, I only have ten fingers, thumbs included....

...put him to work at polishing brightwork. ...throw him in the hold with the captain's daughter. ...tie him to the mast and give him five lashes. I've also heard of a variant: "What do you do with a filthy baby?" -- Sung at a child's bath time.

Yep. A fourth. A/D. A fifth (G/D) would have been better. Maybe I'll ebay it when the new one comes in.

On Monday, I took the plunge. I ordered a D/G Jeffries Ceili, which I should be getting in October.

Thanks Jim. Your link in post #5 of this thread helped a bit, although I still haven't made up my mind. This discussion: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/9076 , about C/D versus D/G was also good.

It figures someone would try to talk me into the better model. Le'see. 16 Weeks lead time would be early October... Anyway, lets keep talking about layout. I have diagrams for 31 key Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts. I assume the 30 key is the same without that 31st C/C key. So, Jeffries or Wheatstone layout, and Why?

I'm making slow progress. I got a Stagi to replace my Hohner about a year ago, and I like it much better, except it's A/D (used, ebay, about half price), which makes some fingerings awkward. It might be better if it was D/A, but... As much as I'd like a Morse Ceili, I just can't justify it yet, as I don't practice consistently and improvements are slow coming. So I'm thinking of a 30 button Stagi, probably G/D, because It's reasonably priced and I like the tone of the one I have now. The question is, isn't it a little strange to have all the sharps and flats on the third row except one on the first row? For instance, in a C/G, F# is first row and everything else is on third row. This has probably been discussed many times before, but I couldn't think of the proper search terms.

Well, it arrived today. The first thing I noticed is that there are indeed, as advertized, many small holes in the bellows. I'll have to get some bellows tape and glue and fix them all. The second thing I noticed was frass, looking much like dry yeast, that comes out when you shake it. Further inspection reveals that the end boards, which the valves and reed blocks (accordion reeds) are attached to, have a few holes and hollows in them. I think it will be sound if repaired. I think wood putty and varnish, or maybe in some cases some sort of injectable filler. In the short term, my wife has ordered it into the chest freezer in order to kill any Texan nasties that might have hitchhiked along. Third, the buttons are all loose. They are plastic, molded onto a bit of metal. The metal has a hole punched in that slides onto the the lever arm. There's a bit of some sort of tubing over each metal part that's all dried out. Comparing it to my Hohner, I understand that if these weren't all dried out they'd be elastic and keep the buttons both relatively tight on the lever arms and positioned in their button holes. Plus one button is completely missing. One button had been fitted with a small brass collar, which I think I recognize as part of a plumbing compression fitting. Problem #4 is that the strips of leather that cover the reeds are all curled. Even if the bellows and end board were air tight, I suspect the push reeds would sound on the pull and the pull reeds would sound on the push. So I'll have to fix them too. So, any suggestions on where to start? (edit:) Oh yeah. And it smells like an ashtray.

I've been playing my Hohner D-40 for three months now. I figure that this must be a step up, right? My wife says that if I want another one I'll have to sell this one or the Hohner. Fair enough. Except I'm not sure selling a used Hohner is worth the trouble. I notice in the pictures that one button is missing and several more are crooked in their holes. I may learn a bit about maintenance and repair with this one. It should have shipped on Monday. Now I just have to wait for it. Dan

What do you all think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=ADME:B:BN:US:1 Dan