David Hornett

Sorry, it was the other way around. 'Bump' between sides, I don't think so, we become pretty proficient with many musical instruments that require different notes with different hands, proper concertinas for instance, and whistles, sax's and so on, I have no concern about bumps, especially in that the sound is the same push or pull, but I do worry about getting the fingers operating in a crab motion on a little instrument. I'll let you know, success or disaster, the fun will be in the experiment, and you just might be able to say, "Told you so." Regards David

Thank you for your replies. I was thinking of angling the palm rests at 20 degrees more or less to allow ease of playing in the sideways creep style of C and B griff instruments. Many B and C griff players trail their thumbs along the bottom of the keyboard (although I don't) so the idea of a freely moveable hand with this playing style, is limited in the sense the B and C griff instruments are often being played more like a concertina. On the B Griff accordion I have, it is reasonably easy to hold the thumb in one fixed spot on the instrument's side and cover two octaves, but whether a hand strap will allow sufficient movement is to be seen, although there are many concertinas which have 17 buttons in three rows on the right hand side. WD3W & B.E.S. I just did what I should have done before I made the first post, tuned a C3 to A440 and a C4 to A442: the result was not any warm sounding vibrato! (For years until now I had assumed the bassoon reed on a musette was tuned flat, so much for assumptions.) Thankyou. John, I am not at all familiar with the Crane Duet so thank you for that. You are right about range, for some scales the range on my 33 button instrument would be 2 1/2 octaves, for others nearer 3, but then this is well in excess of the range of the 12 buttons a row melodeon. But I agree, the duet does seem to do all I am trying to do, but I don't play duet and do play B griff, and it is far quicker to build a concertina than learn a new system. Wolf, my reasoning is: For a B griff player they would have a very light, small, highly portable instrument, 5 1/2 inches across, less than 1.03 kgs. with very good bellows control. The idea of the vibrato is that it would not activate unless notes on both sides were played simultaneously, if vibrato was not wanted, then just play single notes. At less than 8 cents difference very few players would hear one side of the instrument was flat compared to the other across the octaves if single notes were played. But, it now seems that such a cross octave vibrato sounds not that nice, thank you WD3W, but I will give it a go and see what happens in a instrument rather than just reeds on a bench -- you never know. I'll post a sound track and image of the completed instrument possibly after Easter. All the best David

Don: left hand side range from D3 - E4, and on the right hand side range from F4 - Bb5 in a B Griff three row layout. ​B. E. Sailor: But a normal accordion can have vibrato on the treble and a standard bass note (on the bass side) an octave below, sounds OK? Or have i misunderstood your point? ​Thank you both for your response David

I am wondering if anyone would like to comment on this idea: I am designing a BGriff concertina to add to my Tassie Tiger collection (I play B Griff accordion. These accordions, in their 3 row variant allow for every key on the scale to be played with just 3 different fingering patterns. The buttons produce the same sound push and pull. I can fit 33 buttons, therefore 33 notes into my little 51/2 inch Tassie Tiger concertinas (16 on the left and 17 on the right, in the anglo style layout). What this allows me to do is on the left hand side range from D3 - E4, and on the right hand side range from F4 - Bb5 in a B Griff three row layout. Because all notes of a scale are present on each side of the instrument in both directions all possible cords can be formed. This is my question: If I tune the right hand side to A442, and the left hand side to A440, I would have a nice vibrato tuning like a two voice accordion when the same note (e.g. F3 and F4 played simultaneously). AND, because deeper notes tend to flatten slightly under pressure (volume), a high and low note, e.g. Eb3 and Eb4 on the left hand side would also have a slight vibrato. Unless told that there is a difference in pitch, the ear has very little sensitivity, if any, to difference (in pitch) below about 8 cents, when a player plays an instrument relative to itself, and in most cases relative to other instruments. There is just under 8 cents difference between A442 and A440, so it would be hard to pick a difference in tuning in the instrument against itself. But when two same pitched notes are played on the same instrument, right and left hand, the harmony would be noticeably enlivened by vibrato. (As an example: accordions retain their bass side (chord) reeds at A440, but flatten or sharpen two 0r more banks of reeds on the right hand side to make a musette.) The advantage of this layout as far as I can see are: * All cords can be played push and pull * All cords can be played push and pull right and left hand with precisely the same fingering pattern both sides * All keys can be played both sides of the instrument. * There is a mild vibrato effect that mimics a two voiced instrument * And all this in a very small instrument, highly portable, and loud. Comments are most welcome, please. David

My just completed Tassie Tiger 31 button 5 5/8 G/D. 1.125 kgs. As I don't Irish cross row this is the one I will take to sessions. In the photos a full sized Crabb two row is shown for size comparison. Links below to photo bucket: http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2610_zpsxwezznh7.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/D%20-%20G%20Tassie%20Tiger%20concertina/IMG_2607_zps1n4k7ltj.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/D%20-%20G%20Tassie%20Tiger%20concertina/IMG_2608_zps0i7ydttt.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/D%20-%20G%20Tassie%20Tiger%20concertina/IMG_2606_zpsa5rrfhio.jpg David

A lovely looking instrument, and a fantastic photo essay on how it was made. I never cease to be amazed about how many ways there are to solve the same problem, some very innovative indeed. I learnt a lot. Thank you Alex. PS: I remember after I had made my first instrument I sat it on the bench and stared at it every day for a week before i went to work, simply not being able to believe I'd done it -- a common feeling?. David

Alex, my rods are 1.6 mm round brass. I flatten the pivot points with a fly press (flattens to approx 2.70mm) and use 1.2mm x 5mm solid brass flat head tacks for pins. They are pressed into titanium pivot posts using an arbor press, forming such close embrace with the titanium they will never move, but I peen them anyway. Hitting the brass with the fly press instantly hardens the material at the contact point, it make a nice hard rubbing surface. When I began I used 2mm nickel-silver rods, but found the thinner rods, even with the hole through them were remarkably strong, so have settled on them. Even on the shortest rods the silicon tubing does wonders, only the width of the button is needed, so there is plenty of room for the springs. I have just completed a 31 button, G/D 5 5/8 inch (142mm across the flats) instrument, and even in this confined space everything fitted nicely. David

I have been using 1.5mm ID silicon tubing. Does not clatter, stays in place, and fits firmly and nicely over my 1.6 mm action arms I figured it does wonders in the medical world and industry, especially as hose under the unforgiving bonnet of a car, so why not concertinas: Hmm, time will tell. david

Anglobox, If you supply me with your email I will forward pictures of my tuning table using an old school desk and knee operated weighted accordion bellows, with an adjustable slide device for different size shoes. (I have run out f space on this site.) All the best David

Ah, stories: My Great Grandfather, died 1960 aged 94, used to tell me stories of walking from Brisbane to the Palmer River goldfields in his early 20's (which would put it around the early 1890's) when he first came to Australia, along bush tracks following the Great Dividing Range. On finding there was no gold left, he walked back to Sydney. If it was not for my Grandmother telling me he had really done it, and found just enough gold for his wife's to be wedding ring I would not have believed him. The distances are immense, thousands of miles. Apparently in the more civilised areas he did odd jobs on the way. He said he was not the only one who walked. Grandfather told me it took Pa a couple of years for the return journey. I still find it impossible to believe. Great Grandfather played the concertina, but I doubt he left the one shown behind. Great-Grandfather was a bit of a tragic when it came to gold. Having married he moved wife, presumably with her ring, to the south island of New Zealand to work on the deep mines there, six years later he returned to Australia with Great Grandmother, and child, my Grandmother, but still no gold. David

I arch the Tiger rests to fit the curve of my palm. The top of arch is 2cm. I have tried 3 cm and find it more comfortable, especially for reaching the inner row, but i have big hands and am conscious of someone else not finding it so nice, so stay with 2cm. Having said that, interestingly, when I pick up another concertina with a straight rest, I am not at all conscious of the rest difference, the reason seems to be that when playing I tend to arch the back of my hand to rest on the edge of the concertina, so that the rest's shape or height make little difference, never-the-less, i like the look of my domed rests. David

Thank you. I tend toward supporting your theory, however a gap too wide (too widely voiced) does seem to remain so, no matter the amount of playing in, and a closely voiced reed that stalls seems to retain this propensity also. Maybe all the in-between reeds find their natural position, certainly seems to be the case. David

Is it this 'stress release' that seems to affect the tone and playability of a new concertina reed? I notice that with the reeds i make, they sound better after playing, although the pitch does not change. I originally thought i was imagining it, but if I omit to also give the accidental row a work out they sound nowhere as good as the C/G or G/D (etc) row i have played in. I have also noticed the same thing on the diatonic accordions I play. Or am I really imagining it -- because I have got used to the instrument's tone? David

A nice looking and sounding instrument, I am jealous of the superb fret design. I also enjoyed the playing of the sample tunes. Re reeds in the centre of the reed pan, I have a 40 button Jeffries and a 35 button Lachenal both of which have internal reeds. My 32 button concertinas have one internal reed and the 35 button two. All instruments have their internal reeds in the bass. However on all instruments the internal reeds sound slightly 'different' compared to the external reeds. I don't know why, maybe because they are more directly under the cupped hand? David

Geoff, If you would like to call around, I'll show you how I do it. David

A group of 10 Aussie folkies are walking the Coleridge Way, playing and dancing at inns where we stay. All muses and dancers welcome to join us as you may, To walk, dance, session, but most importantly play, Folk tunes: Tasmanian, Australian, English, Scottish; Tyneside too, We'll even throw some Irish into our musical stew, We'll love for you to join us, walk, play, dance, listen, It's up to you, But us Aussie walkers think nought better to do. When & Where Mon 19th, Nether Stowey, The Ancient Mariner Inn Tues 20th, West Quantoxhead, The Manson’s Arms Wed 21th, Monksilver, The Notley Arms Inn Thurs 22nd, Luxborough, The Royal Oak Inn Fri 23rd, Wheddon Cross, The Rest and Be Thankful Inn Sun 25th, Brenddon, The Staghunter’s Inn Mon 26th, Heddon’s Mouth, The Hunter’s Inn Tues 27th, Coombe Martin, Park of Cards Hotel So if you can find the time please join us at any time or place, of as long or brief as you may -- Accordions, fiddles, whistles, harmonicas, flutes and a Tassie Tiger concertina. David Hornett

Thank you CrP. The best i can do is a computer mike recording on Garage Band in the kitchen -- still with two warbling valves I am afraid. Sorry about the playing, I don't normally play concertina and don't cross row. Below is the 'Soundcloud' address of the sample. David https://soundcloud.com/wasplike/tiger-27042017-828-pm.

Yes, enormous fun, and by far the greatest is the bellows construction, it's like magic when they emerge from the jig, something apparently so big and with so many bits and pieces glued together that can compress to something so small, the fellow (man or woman) who made the first set was a genius in my opinion. Reed making is also great fun, although tinged with tedium, each instrument up until the last two has had a slightly different reed profile. In the last two I just file them, twang them on the jig until they sound right and seem to have the right resistance and move on to the next one: a much quicker process than file, measure, file measure ..., and they sound better for it too. I now check the pitch after I file to the right pressure and consistency, I no longer file to a pitch. When the reed seems 'right', pressure and 'twang', the pitch is checked, and then the reed is sharpened or flattened to the closest pitch: a much easier process by far. PS: be careful not to judge an instrument by its wood. Thank you Dana. David

Hi all, I have been a little busy lately; here is why: A 5 3/4 inch 31 button c/g, 1.1 kgs. loud and fast. Sounds absolutely fantastic, better than any other I have made — Chris' tips have certainly paid off. (Alongside a 30 button Jones to give an idea of size). Button spacing and distance from the palm rests have been maintained to be the same as a standard Lachenal, but if you look closely on the right hand side, to keep symmetry of design (the thylacine's noses), one of the buttons is moved slightly out of position. Banksia, Huon, King Billy, Casuarina buttons with Tassie 'roo skin for bellows and pads. Took a bit of an effort to get the long bass reeds in. Hopefully the photo bucket links below work: http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2444_zpssrqpvqlp.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2443_zpslxixks7z.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2442_zpsoapafmh1.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2440_zpsdum1eisx.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2439_zpsalseqc12.jpg http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/DavidHornett/IMG_2437_zpsv6ib416j.jpg David

Johann, I play diatonic accordion, but what is a 'styran type diatonic accordion'? Is it an Austrian Diatonic with the very deep oompah type bass? ​I too find that the low bass concertina reeds are slower to speak (from about C3 down) but I figure it is my lack of skill at making them rather than some intrinsic characteristic of the reed. David

The Jones 'broad steel reeds' are parallel reeds, at least the Jones I have is, and yes it is a little slow to speak, and very mellow with a bit of a woody echo. My reeds are also wide and parallel, but they don't have the same tone as the Jones, and i like to think that my latest instrument is just a little quicker. I once put a (tapered) Lachenal reed in the Jones (C5), the shoe had to be packed, (the reed tongue had broken and I had at that stage not got around to making a new one). However the Lachenal reed played more like a Jones than a Lachenal, so we may have a lot of other factors at work too, for instance my Jones reed chambers are not tapered to the instrument's centre like the Lachenal, and they are also a little deeper, whether this makes a difference or not I have no idea. Thank you Joahnn, I found your comments about amplitude and volume interesting. David

I don't know the answer, but I do make all my reeds 10% wider than the corresponding Lachenal pitch 'cause I thought it may alter the volume, but there seems little difference, I guess it would be hard to hear 10% and even harder to attribute it just to the reed width. Possibly width increases the pressure required of sound the reed, it would certainly add to air usage, but again at 10% it is hard to notice anything. As far as I understand, it is not width but length and profiling, including end weights on bass reeds, that alters pitch. I have got some rather wide reed shoes I could send you if you would like to file them out and experiment, they can take a lot of widening, I overdid the design and then had a few thousand laser cut before making a concertina .. Hmmm ... live and learn. I use them in my instruments, but have some to spare. David

Hi music 66, If you want to know which notes are which in a conventional / traditional 2 row DA layout, I have a fingering layout I can send you, unfortunately I have run out of space on concertina net, send me an email if you would like this. david

Yes, wet concertinas are not a good idea. I was going to use it for the frame until I read the net entries, cost a bit too, gave it away to a guitar maker, a shame now I have seen what can be done with it. Come to think of it, my rabbit skin bellows don't delaminate, so the fish should have been OK, live and learn. Fiebirgs' does a decent job thankfully, and it does not have to be kept in the fridge, Deanna (wife) is a much happier person. David

Why had I not thought of this, it would have saved me cutting thousands of gussets! My gussets are made from the left over material from the leather bandings so no piece of the roo hide is lost (the hide I use is .3mm. Can't do the same with my snake skin though: you have got me thinking.) I actually purchased some fish skin glue for the same purpose as you, but then read that in high humidity and heat it will become sticky, mobile, and then delaminate, or worse still re-adhere and stick everything together: this can happen to violin finger boards for instance with animal glues if the humidity is not controlled, in fact it happened to my wife's violin when she was playing a concert in a Hokkaido summer a few years ago, the finger board slid down the neck, but this was not fish skin glue. (There are a few stories on the net of guitars delaminating in tropical areas when fish glue is used.) My glue of preference is Fiebirgs Leathercraft cement which fastens like a pit bull and yet remains flexible. Loved the video David