fearfeasog

Thanks so much David! I don't wanna quote all that inline here, but it's great perspective--something more for me to think about. Absolutely makes sense, and I'm sure it will even more once my playing is more "up to speed." ff

Wild speculation: Imitation -- conscious or even unconscious -- of a technique used by uilleann pipers? Of course, whatever the reason for trying it in the first place, once a player notices that -- as Chris noted -- it makes a difference in the sound, it becomes a technique worth using. i thought pipers HAD to lift to get to certain notes. right? anyway, sounds like the lifting for concertina players is part of the magic, not so much the science, of playing. I'll give it a go.

Ah, a Religious Ecstasy! A Transformative Experience! Something the highly tuned members of the Inner Circle of Concertina Virtuoso have attained. Gittin' DOWN wit' yo' bad Concertina Playin' Self. I dig it. And here I honestly thought it was some specific technique thing. But is some not-so-specific etc etc... I'll get there.

hey all, I'm still learning, 3 months in making progress. got my hands on a Morse Céilí 30b Anglo as a rental after 90 days of Rochelle. So my question is--I notice many C'tina players lifting the instrument off their knee as they play, obviously for a reason. Can someone explain to me what's going on there--why a player would do that? Thanks! Here's an example--about 35 seconds in there's a close-up of the 'tina and the lifting: http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_339_3_seamus_o_mongain_and_seamus_dean/

Seconded.

PURDY! Anglo?

BadaBOOM!

FWIW I spoke to the good folks at the Button Box. Doug 'splained to me that this wear happens all the time and very quickly with the Rochelles, and they have extra replacement buttons there just for that reason. A bushed hole would probably help, but so would more stable action. Anyway it isn't just me. PHEW!

Well it'll be difficult to remember not to pull the buttons sideways while trying to remember all the other details about just playing the damn thing. But I'll try.

Hi folks. I ave a Rochelle 30b anglo I have been renting from the Button Box since the end of June. It was new out of the box when I rented it. I have played it every day for about an hour a day since then. I noticed that one of the reeds was "sticking" the other day. The button and pad seemed fine (I could see the pad in there moving freely) but it was as if it was a bit clogged. Maybe the leather valve at the reed? Also I know sometimes little bits can jam the reed so i just kept playing. It has pretty much worked itself out, but that problem made me take a closer look at the instrument overall. I noticed that the innermost buttons on the C rows, left and right index finger position, are wearing a bit on the sides. I think I must pull those buttons laterally a bit when I play them and they are scraping against the side of the hole. That dust, which i can see a bit of around the hole, may be what's getting stuck in the reed too, I suppose. Has anyone else had this happen? Is this something I need to worry about changing in terms of how I'm playing? I don't feel like I am putting that much lateral pressure on those buttons, but I shall try to be more aware of it as I play. Thanks!

nice!

there is a brand of matboard (used in picture framing, and similar to what Bob Tedrow uses to make his bellows) called Alpharag Artcare made by the Bainbridge company. you can get it at most custom picture frame shops. The deal with it is that it has a certain ability to absorb pollutants, smells, nasty stuff like that. Concervators use it to get the mold and must smell out of artwork. Try getting some, cutting it into strips, squares, whatever. seal your concertina up with it for awhile and see how it works. I think it's probably 15-20 dollars for a 32 x 40 inch sheet. worth a try!

May you quickly heal, Randy! And try not to push yourself too hard out of enthusiasm.

Anyone in Western Mass? Know of any slow sessions? (posting at thesession.org too)

understood, sir!

OP, You don't say what your goal is, and The Wind is played in the American idiom as well but in case your intention is to play in an Irish style then starting with Bertram Levy might not be the way to go. It is not the aim of his book. Disregard this rave if you are not into Irish music. Playing a slower concertina such as the Rochelle leads one to try to run streams of notes in the same direction in order to keep the speed up rather than lose the time changing bellows direction. Rather than speed or smoothness it might be better to take rhythm as your guiding principle in button choice and bellows direction. Try playing through jigs you know changing bellows direction on the beginning note of each set of three notes and listen to the increased dynamic in your playing. If you find this easy also try changing direction for the third note rather than the first. Listen to the difference. Don't take this as a permanent instruction to always change bellows direction on a rhythm note for Irish music, just build it in as a skill for when you need it. The different sound to the start of a note which has a bellows change is an important asset to use and to avoid when you want to. And this helps define which button you will use for the note. Another is whether you can cut the note well, or whether an octave can be played with it, and sometimes it is just a matter of which button you can get to! To help tune your ear to the difference try playing the common reel triplet BAG as if it is in a reel in two ways, firstly as 1st button C row RHS pull B, then top button C row LHS pull A then same button push G. Put lots of emphasis on the first note and play the triplet quickly. When you think you have the bellows change working well try substituting the draw G on the second to top button accidental row LHS instead. The life will drain out of the triplet. When a good Irish player told me she often changed direction during a triplet to enhance the rhythm I despaired of ever doing it, but it is not in fact that hard when experience gets your mind going as fast as the music and enthusiasm drives you to practise more and to cough up for an instrument that will do it. I played a new Morse a couple of weeks ago, it was much better than three other hybrids I played at the time and would not hold you back for a very long time. Overall what I am saying is let rhythm and phrasing dictate which button to use. Cheers Chris Chris, it is ITM I am primarily interested in. Rant received! Thanks for the example. I'll try that when I'm not so exhausted. Long day. I chose the anglo specifically because it's preferred for ITM and that has to do with how the thing is set up to play different notes on different bellows directions. I imagine I'll take full advantage of that to make the ITM I play sound like good ITM. I'm sure there's room for some Bertram Levy style all-the-notes-on-the-push-or-pull style action as well. Whatever works. Like you say--it's about the music's rhythm and phrasing. I just need to practice a lot! At this stage alot of this is just "building vocabulary" I think. Fluency comes later. I never imagined this would be quite so complex. It's like when I decided to learn the Irish language. But I did that and I can do this. It will just take time. I appreciate all the various points of view, thanks a lot to you all!

Andy thanks for that detail. I'll give that a go! By the way are you in western MA? Did you get the Rochelle from the button box so as to do the upgrade trade? I am and i plan to do the same. Really liked the Céilís i played over there the other day. Anyway, thanks!

I'm trying to learn "the Wind that Shakes the Barley" (D maj) on my rent-a-Rochelle. I'm finding that I'm playing the song more easily on the bottom row (which one is that? g or c?) and going up to the second row for a few notes, and up to the third row just for the c#. It seems to keep the bellows in line too. Is this ok? I tried the middle row first, but had to keep modifying the fingering to make it playable for me. How do you all manage that tune?

that's a great question--one I'd also be interested in the answer of. for. to. whatever. I'm not sure what styles you two are looking to play, but I am currently putting the finishing touches on a 100-page tutor titled "Anglo Concertina in the Harmonic Style". It utilizes a very easy tablature system to teach melody, chords and accompaniment utilizing all three rows, and will also feature transcriptions of tunes recorded by many top players who play in the more "English" harmonic style (as opposed to the mostly single note Irish melodic style). It will have well over 50 tunes, from very simple to very difficult, and with luck will be out in time for Christmas. In the meanwhile, sensing you like ITM, I've attached a sneak preview. The tutor is for Anglos with Wheatstone/Lachenal accidentals on the top row, so it should work perfectly for your Rochelle. Enjoy! Gary Man, that looks great! Thanks for the tease. ITM is exactly what I'm about right now, so keep us posted on the release of this. I'll put it on my Xmas list.

Skimming through older posts, I can't help replying to this, as I have a recording studio of sorts in my home too. I always noticed the mics placed at either end of concertinas on TV shows in Ireland and the like. Seems they always keep both mics center and don't pan them--they blend them to mono. Which makes sense. I suppose if you really HAD to go for a stereo sound you'd be pulling a spaced pair or coincident pair back a ways. Then in the mixing you could just not pan hard left and right, but somewhere in between. There's also no reason you couldn't fill any holes down the center of the stereo field with a third mic. Often a mic placed over the shoulder of the musician will pick up a great tone, and it's hearing more or less what the musician is hearing. This mic could be used to "fill the hole" so to speak. I may experiment with this once I can play anything worth recording. Your recording sounds great! I'm certainly not suggesting you need to make any changes. Just blurting my thoughts. Exquisite playing too.

that's a great question--one I'd also be interested in the answer of. for. to. whatever.

I imagine cutting more material out of the end plates would brighten the sound. And void the trade-in deal @ the Button Box as well. :-/

I haven't had too much to complain about really with the Rochelle. I *did* ask the folks at the Button Box today when I visited them whether they would recommend or perform any improvements. They basically said there isn't anything they'd recommend, as they play quite well (I agree, though it takes alot more air to get the highest and lowest reeds on my rental to sound than it does the middle tones.) Though I found all the other 'tinas i tried had much more generous air buttons. Anyway, we also talked about the Stagis, and how they are SO bad that the only reason they can sell them there and stand behind them is that they service them first, and that is also why they cost a good deal more than the Rochelles. I didn't much like the feel of the Stagi anyway-the hand rest and buttons are awkwardly placed on the ends, it's strange. And I happen to think they're ugly. I can handle the black laquer look of the Rochelle better. I played every other 30 button anglo they had on the shelf too, for some time, to get a feel and to see why the Rochelle has the rep it has. I really like the Morse Céilí. Nice and light, mellow sounding but clear, great action--quick with a short light button feel-even I felt nimble on this thing. Pretty too. I like the black with black bellows and black buttons and the red bushings look really great against all that black. I tried one of the g/d models too, that was cool. They have a Thomas that is the loudest thing i have ever heard. It hurt my ears, but then, I'm a delicate flower. It was heavy, too, but not nearly so as the Rochelle. The Wheatstone Linota was my fave not considering price. good balance of mellow and bright, just overall a very comfy 'tina to play. But at $9600 it ain't happenin'. I did linger on this one. The Geuns-Wakker was very nice too. Probably my third fave. Longer button throw, "heavier" buttons and heavier overall. There was a 45 button Jeffries that just confused me, so i put it down...it was $10,000+ anyway, so, no. Comparing them all to the Rochelle--the Rochelle sounds muffled. And the Stagi even more so. The Rochelle is just amazing for it's price, is one thing I really took away from all this testing. And that I need to start saving some cash. sorry to go on and on. I just enjoyed it so much I had to spout it out!

that looks really interesting. How much was it all together with shipping?

The only time I got my hands on a Rochelle, the first thing I noticed was the thin, wobbly straps with their sharp edges. Good, thick, stiff, comfortable straps are not that expensive (e.g. from David Leese), and are easy to fit. Another serious issue with the Rochelle is the small diameter of the air-valve. This would need minor surgery, with a larger pad (also available from David Leese). But stiffer straps will be a great improvement for a start. Cheers, John Hmmm, hadn't thought of that.