Daddy Long Les

Thanks for all your replies and thoughts. I think a couple of people thought that I didn't understand modes. I understand the concept well enough it's just that my musical world is probably very different to a lot of people on here. Please read my long post in the other topic carefully. My point is that I have never thought it would be a good idea to introduce the concept of modes to 7-11 year olds who are already struggling to play basic tunes and chords on the guitar. I teach the guitar in school and I also instruct rock and pop choirs and musicians, again in the above mentioned age group so I have always thought that the basic idea of major and minor was enough for those children to cope with. If you're a teacher of that particular age group you'll understand I'm sure! The gap in my knowledge I referred to was my grasp on how ABC notation worked. Anyway, I will study everyone's posts in detail tomorrow amd take on board the various points made. Again, many thanks for taking the time to comment on this subject. Les

I've extracted this from my other post because it's right at the bottom and may get missed and I am very interested in other people's view on this subject i.e. describing a tune as being in a certain mode rather than having a key signature e.g. A Mixolydian versus A major. Please click on the link and then tell me what you think. If possible, try and approach it from the point of view of a beginner and in particular, one who is trying to cope with the dots for the first time e.g. a junior school-aged person such as I have taught for the past 40 years. (7-11). http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18071&p=172629 Scroll down to Lester's comment and view from there onwards. I'm not on a crusade here at all and will definitely be swayed by the opinion of the majority. Many Thanks Les

Hi chas, No not at all. I wasn't offended in the least. Truly! This is the beauty of the forum - the pooling of ideas and information. I was just about to go to bed last night when I saw Lester's post and then couldn't sleep trying to puzzle it out so I got up and aired my thoughts in that long post! Tune Book software does show the dots and, as you say, none of the Fs and Gs are shown as sharps. The problem comes with the computer playback from within the software where the app doesn't appear clever enough to take any notice of the "Mix" instruction and so merrily plays all the Fs and Cs as naturals. This is where my confusion arose! I'll have another look at this when I get a chance and see if there's something I need to tick in the preferences to get it to playback correctly. I'm sure that's true about ABC and modes in the world of folk. My own personal misgivings notwithstanding, modes are very interesting and something I'm going to be delving deeper into. Many thanks for your interest and for helping me out here. Old dog - new tricks eh?!! Les

I saw this on eBay today. Looks good. Any recommendations?

Red Haired Boy is normally considered to be in the Mixolydian Mode not a major?? eg X: 1 T: The Red Haired Boy R: reel M: 4/4 L: 1/8 K: Amix |:"A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eAAA ABcA|"G"B=GEF "G"G2 FG| "A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eaaa afed|cA"E"BG "A"A4 :| |: "G"g2 g"G"a gfef|gfec "D"d2 cd|"A"eAAA ABcA|"G"B=GEF G2 FG| "A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eaaa afed|cA"E"BG "A"A4 :| Your version is different to mine. I downloaded mine off the internet several years ago - can't remember from where. It is in A major (three sharps in the key sig) - the Fs and Gs are not naturalised in the first few bars although there are one or two G naturals here and there a bit later on. It starts E A A G# A B C# D E F# E C# D C# D etc. so mine is not in A mix. When I can get to a scanner I'll send you a copy. Your version "works" as well. It just looks like the one I play is a "major" version of it and quite a lot of the tune is different although fundamentally it's the same tune if you get what I mean! I'll do a video of it soon and you'll see what I meanI'm wondering how familiar you are with abc notation, Les? In A mixolydian, all the Fs and Cs are sharp. If the K field says "A mix" then there's no need to mark them as sharp. The G# you give here is very much a passing note and perhaps a bit ambiguous. If the stressed Gs are natural (as in bar 4 of Lester's transcription), then it's in A mix (basically major with a flattened seventh). Hope I'm not teaching my grandmother to suck eggs. I simply played Lester's version in Tunebook (Mac software) and the Fs and Gs came out as natural. In other words I opened Lester's version up in the software and pressed play on the computer and that's what I got. I'm guessing this is wrong as A mixolydian is A B C# D E F# G A - in other words the same as A major but with a flattened seventh. You're right of course Chas - I don't have much experience with ABC - I've only used a few of Lester's examples over the years. It's obviously an ingenious form of musical shorthand that I know is used extensively, especially in the folk world. However, I can tell you honestly that if I had put this piece of sheet music down in front of any of the thousands of people I have taught to play the guitar over the years without any explanation they would all have played all the Fs and Cs as natural. The terms "mix" or "mixolydian" would have meant nothing to them. My wife is a grade seven pianist and had never even heard of modes!! I chatted this through with her and she said that she too would have played the Fs and Cs as naturals unless told to do otherwise. So there we have it - a gap in my knowledge which has now been filled. I take this firmly on the chin and thank you and Lester for pointing it out. I mean this - I'm not being sarcastic!! The fact remains, however, that whoever notated the version of "The Red Haired Boy" that I use didn't understand modes (or chose to ignore them) and thus put it in the key of A major - three sharps (F, C and G) and quite a few G naturals written as accidentals. I've just had a quick look on the net and have found several versions written with three sharps in the key signature. I also found one with two sharps (F and C) which kind of makes sense as the scale that this tune is based on has all of the notes of D major with the odd G# here and there as an accidental in this case. You see - it's confusing isn't it? I would really worry about even trying to explain this to a beginner. I can't tell you how many of my young school guitarists have given up over the years when I started using musical notation instead of tablature although admittedly this is something peculiar to the guitar. I guess this was part of the reason for me inventing my own concertina tab - no modes or key signatures there to worry about!! I think it's fine if you're steeped in the world of modes and have been brought up like that but coming from the rock and pop world as I do, most folk like me (even if it's not technically correct) tend to think of tunes being major or minor. I do get the fact that modes are a better way of pinning down the actual notes played in a piece but I think we have to be very careful about how we teach this to a total beginner without scaring them half to death! Anyway, I love the piece and will continue to work on it until I can play it! As I said to Lester, I will scan my version and show you when I can. It's nice to keep learning new things - even at my age - but I'd be interested on other people's observations on this subject. Phew.....that was a long post but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. At least I've learnt something about ABC notation tonight! Best Wishes Les

Red Haired Boy is normally considered to be in the Mixolydian Mode not a major?? eg X: 1 T: The Red Haired Boy R: reel M: 4/4 L: 1/8 K: Amix |:"A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eAAA ABcA|"G"B=GEF "G"G2 FG| "A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eaaa afed|cA"E"BG "A"A4 :| |: "G"g2 g"G"a gfef|gfec "D"d2 cd|"A"eAAA ABcA|"G"B=GEF G2 FG| "A"EAAG ABcd|efec "D"d2 cd|"A"eaaa afed|cA"E"BG "A"A4 :| Your version is different to mine. I downloaded mine off the internet several years ago - can't remember from where. It is in A major (three sharps in the key sig) - the Fs and Gs are not naturalised in the first few bars although there are one or two G naturals here and there a bit later on. It starts E A A G# A B C# D E F# E C# D C# D etc. so mine is not in A mix. When I can get to a scanner I'll send you a copy. Your version "works" as well. It just looks like the one I play is a "major" version of it and quite a lot of the tune is different although fundamentally it's the same tune if you get what I mean! I'll do a video of it soon and you'll see what I mean

Thank you. A very interesting answer and I'll definitely explore those musicians you mention.

Hi, Yes I've heard the clips thank you. Hmm, I think that the range of notes goes down to G and up to D. The Marcus website is confusing -they quote what you have said but the downloadable layout is G to D. All the clips I've heard of them prove this to be true. I guess if you asked him, Marcus would make you one that went down to F.

Yes that's me. I just figure on putting a bit back into something that's given me a good living all my life and lots more besides.

I would just like to say a big "thank you" to all the people on this forum who have patiently answered all my questions and helped me out generally over the past few weeks. This really is a wonderful resource for all concertina players where there is plenty for the beginner and experienced player alike. ​Very much like on melodeon.net (of which I am also a member and contributor) it's great to see the really experienced players taking the time to explain things to new folk and those who are dipping their toe in the water prior to their first concertina. Very well done to all concerned and particularly to the moderators for all they do. Best Wishes Les

https://youtu.be/djQCJqOSA-U Have a look at this - simple but effective I think and it's played in Kabul!!!

Phew, my Washerwoman ends B GG G! I am glad to hear that. Not one of my firm favourites but I find it fun to use as many re-iterated notes as possible, just to make a feature of it in this tune, especially in the B part where triple buttoning can be used, though I still use one finger for these. Have fun! Interesting. I'm now working on an Irish tune called The Red Haired Boy which I play in A on a tenor guitar/banjo and mandolin. It's written in straight semiquavers but I've given it a hornpipe feel, changed it to G major and it sounds wonderful. I'm totally addicted to it and can't stop playing it - video soon!! Thank you Geoff for all your interest, help and advice. I really appreciate it!

Hi Dave, A friend of mine in the US had one and I'm pretty sure he said it was a good box. I'll ask him to comment on this post. Les

I'm with you John. Guitar is my first instrument with frailing banjo and I even play a bit of mandolin.

Phew, my Washerwoman ends B GG G!

Once agin chas, I am indebted to you. Thank you very much!

I differ. Though I do at times play repeated notes with the same finger, I mostly prefer (and practice) using different fingers, because there's an enforced delay with a single finger (from having to lift it and put it down again), while less of a delay from multiple fingers, because the next finger can be dropping while the current one is still rising. I believe/feel that gives me greater ability to control the individual lengths of the separate notes, since I can deliberately delay the next attack if I wish. Years ago I preferred the singe-finger method, but time -- and practice -- changed my mind. Now I try to reserve the single-finger approach for when I want to put space between the notes. Nevertheless, single-finger can be easier to control in some situations, especially for a beginner, and it's usually advisable while one is still learning and getting comfortable with the keyboard layout. But Les, if you're already doing multiple fingers as a default, I would advise you not to back away from that. This sounds very sensible and good advice. Thank You. Les

Hi Everyone, Does anyone on here own a Marcus English Concertina and if so, could they kindly give me their honest opinion? I'd be interested to hear about their Anglos as well. I'd also be glad to hear of anyone's dealings with this company. I've made a few enquiries of them and have been very impressed thus far. Thanks Les

All fixed. Martyn White, who looks after my melodeons here in Essex, UK, sorted it out while I waited today. He really is a genius! As some on here had suggested, he simply replaced both valves on that C2 and the problem disappeared. He de-buzzed an Ab by adding a small piece of paper to make the reed frame fit better. He also re-set quite a few wheezy reeds and bingo! - we're good to go. He too said that this is not a student model but a few "up" from that - rosewood ends etc. and he really liked the instrument which was comforting as it was a bit of an impulse buy. I am so lucky to have such a talented fettler on my doorstep who also happens to be a really nice guy. He's not too shabby on the melodeon and the Anglo either!! Thanks again for everyone who commented on here I really appreciated it. Now I can concentrate on playing. Hooray!

Sound advice as always Geoff. I'll give Mary a listen. Many Thanks Les

The perfect answer and it couldn't have come at a better time! I really appreciate the time you have taken to put this together. Many Thanks Les

Thanks Geoff, This is helpful although I couldn't find clunktrip. Love my English so the Anglo would be an addition not a replacement. Les Just go to Youtube and put clunktrip in the search box and several videos will appear. Thanks Geoff. Found the videos - er.............. I think this answers my question don't you?!!!!

As a harmonica player, I often notice the similarity in the two instruments when I draw on the concertina even to the point of getting a slight bluesy bend in the note when I do.

Thanks Chris,I really liked your slow piece on Soundcloud. Les

Congratulations! I love that feeling of starting to learn a new instrument. I still get excited about it. I wish you lots of joy with your concertina. My first was a Jackie (English equivalent of what you have). I still have it and love it and I think these instruments have been the gateway for a lot of people into the world of concertinas.