Well, I've been playing my Stagi (pictures below) for several months, and I'm hooked, but already I'm feeling its limitations. The main problem I have with it is that it's pretty sluggish when reversing the bellows, the reeds are often slow to speak when I change directions. Also, I wish it was more responsive to low-pressure air (it takes too much air to make the reeds speak). Some reeds are also a bit finicky, tending to stick or speak slowly for apparently no reason, or taking more air than other reeds. I like a light, bouncy bass, but a short tap of the low G on the C row sometimes won't speak, even with plenty of air pressure. I've adjusted the gap on some reeds to improve them, but you can't even get to all the reeds in a Stagi. After opening it up, its crude workmanship is a bit offputting. It's really a bunch of little things, which I could live with for a while, but I'm starting to look for what might be a long term replacement.

I think I want a modern Concertina, even though I love the look and "mystique" of an older one. I want rock-solid reliability and a maker who'll stand behind the instrument. The three models I've looked at that might work for me are Tedrow, Herrington, and Morse. With the USA dollar as weak as it is, the imported models are quite a bit more expensive. I've read a bit here and searched the archives a bit, but haven't found anything comparing the modern mid-level concertinas directly.

Can anyone whose played more than one of these makes let me know what the differences in sound, playability, and reliability might be?

Here's a quick rundown of what I'm looking for.

1) Reliability.
2) Responsiveness, a light, quick feel for the buttons and bellows direction change.
3) A quiet, mellow tone (more for singing and small groups).
4) Able to speak with light pressure.
5) A simple, understated look (I think I prefer the look of wooden ends).
6) Value -- I'll pay more if it's worth it, but no more than I need to.

The square Herrington seems particularly appealing, being a bit lower priced, unique in look, and he says the reeds can be tuned to be quieter and more responsive.

I'm in no big rush, so I'm keeping my eye open for something used too. Or maybe another make that would fit my needs even better? Do any of the makers send out "loaners" for a try, if I pay shipping?

My current box:
http://www.tohu-bohu.com/misc/LeftEnd.jpg
http://www.tohu-bohu.com/misc/PlayTina2.jpg

I have a Morse C/G anglo, received in November 2003. I think it meets all of your criteria except for (3). It's louder and harsher than either of my other concertinas (Wheatstone and Lachenal, both English).


The Button Box (Morse) does. I had a trial of one for a few days before I placed my order.

The last time I spoke with Herrington he said he was going to charge the same for the square as the hex box..and was considering discontinuing the square one...

Strictly a personal choice and not a comment disparaging other concertinas in the under $2k arena.. I would choose the Button Box Ceili...

reason.. I am a woodworker...I also build stringed instruments..I analyze and critique stuff by training and nature...I like the "philosophy" of the product

I also like the sound and action of the Ceili...and the visual...also light ..very well made

If I were not on a buy No American kick I would say consider the Brit and Dutch alternatives. as well but the exchange rate is problematic..

Also consider Edgely.. part of the Concertina Guild trio and an "upgraded" reed
and though Canadian and therefore foreign... : ) ...is made on this continent
buy a respected restorationist/tuner/player..


Just my take....

JJH

Finding anyone who has played extensively on more than one may be difficult. I own a Ceili, and I did get to try the travelling Tedrow, but only briefly. Folks who attend events like the Noel Hill schools and the Northeast Squeeze-In often try each others' instruments, so you might hope for responses from them. You might even want to attend one of these events, yourself.

As for reliability, I don't recall any complaints on that score for any of Morse, Tedrow, Herrington, or Edgley (or any of the mid-range European makers). I.e., they are all quite reliable.

All are also reported to be eminently playable, and though some individuals may prefer one to another, the differences are minor and very personal. E.g., I felt a bit awkward with the travelling Tedrow while everyone else in the room had nothing but praise. So I tried to figure out what my problem was, and finally concluded that the buttons were slightly broader than what I was used to, while still having the standard center-to-center spacing. I wanted more space between the buttons. But that didn't bother anyone else. One thing the Ceili is noted for is its extreme light weight, which I think most players consider a positive factor.

As for sound, I can really only speak about the Ceili; I don't remember the Tedrow well enough. My wooden-ended Ceili is louder and less mellow than my wooden-ended Jones, but not as "bright" as my metal-ended Jeffries. I think it's fine for singing.

I have an Edgley and absolutely love it. Came from a Stagi. The Edgley has a mellow sound which was one of my requirements. Nice action and bellows reversals. I have a 24 button because that fit my needs better, small hands and more of the buttons I actually would use for Irish music. Frank also makes 30 button ones.

Can't speak to the other makers, but could probably after the Noell Hill camp this summer.

Good luck. Good that you can take your time.

Helen

Ah well, edited to say I meant that I also started with a Stagi and then moved to another concertina. Realized you might think Frank revved up the Stagi like another maker (Tedrow?) does.

I own a Herrington (square) and have played the Morse. Both are great. The biggest advantage of the Morse, in my view: its light weight. The Herrington is a brick in comparison. The Morse also has a slightly more "traditional" concertina sound.

The Herrington is a loud, brash instrument. Good for Morris playing, maybe not so good for song accompaniment. The Morse was a little quieter, a little more mellow, but certainly a loud instrument.

Action seemed more or less the same to me.

The Herrington is built like a truck; incredibly solid, great mechanicals. And Harold is a joy to work with.

I bought the Herrington about a year before the Morse appeared on the scene, long before Tedrow and Edgley. If I had to make the choice now, I'd have a hard time; a wealth of good choices out there.

I'd advise against the SQUARE Herrington. I like mine, but I think it's heavier than his others, and it's somewhat hard to hold it in an ergonomically correct position if you rest one end on your knee. Noel Hill pointed his out to me at his class.

And the Irish players mercilessly mock the nontraditional shape.

I can't compare them, since of the three, I've only played Tedrows, but I am entirely delighted with my Tedrow.

--Dave

Where as English players do not. My square Herrington has never been mocked in England by anyone, but has had a lot of interest. Not sure what this says about Irish music, but if you do have a square Herrington, consider playing English music instead...

Chris

Probably more about Irish "musicians" than Irish music.

And I even put "musicians" in quotes, because I wouldn't expect any of the really fine musicians to mock any instrument for it's shape. Or even for its kind.
E.g., when my English and I met Packy Russell nearly 30 years ago he didn't tell me that we didn't "sound Irish", he just said, "Play another one!"

At the risk of opening up a debate that I don't mean to, I will state some _personal_ experience and opinions. Others can and will feel differently, but you are asking for our opinions here.

First of all, all the mid-grade accordion-reeded models (I have tried at least seven brands now) are considerably better than a Stagi. If you ask anyone who has owned a Stagi, and then a (fill-in-blank-here), they will _always_ tell you the latter is better, even if they have not owned or played the other six. If that is all that matters to you (true of many people), then buy which ever one is nearby/handy/turns you on/etc.

If you have played a long time and your requirements are very specific, then you need to try more than one and talk to others who have done likewise. Even if that means delaying your upgrade 6 or 12 months (as I did), you will find this worthwhile, IF you turn out to be a particular (picky?) player. I can't tell you if you are this sort of person. Maybe you aren't sure yourself. It's a bit like buying a new car. Some folks choose their car by what color it is, others (e.g., me) nerdily compare repair records, fuel economy, impartial test reports, etc.

Morse, Tedrow, and Edgley all had boxes on display at the last Squeeze-In and it was illuminating. The larger concertina schools usually do also. I found some differences, and as Chris Timson has wisely said, much of it has to do with your taste, hand size, etc. so I won't say which one I preferred. Also, in my experience these makers all continually innovate and leapfrog one another and the target is thus a moving one.

The only Herrington I tried was nearly six years ago so I can't claim a representative experience with them. I will note that Frank E. is a great Irish-style player, so you might expect his instruments to be suited to that, and I feel they are. Rich M. was aiming in part also at this market, as the mid-1990s saw the supply of inexpensive Lachenals drying up, and he had customers knocking the door down trying to buy them from him. Bob T. loves to play hymns etc. and his early work was suited to this, but my impression of his more recent efforts is that they are closer to the common tone and volume you find in this class of instrument. Bob and Frank more or less build to your order, so you may enjoy customizing (mauve bellows etc). The wait may be shorter for a Morse OTOH, and this swings the decision for some folks I've known who just couldn't stand to wait.

In short, we are blessed with a more mid-level choices than a decade ago, when there were hardly any. But now you have to figure out which itch you have so you can scratch it.

>Where as English players do not. My square Herrington
> has never been mocked in England by anyone, but
> has had a lot of interest. Not sure what this says
> about Irish music, but if you do have a square
> Herrington, consider playing English music instead..

Mostly I do. Morris and American contra.

If I remember correctly, Harold said that he brought his square concertinas to some Irish festivals and got a lot of flak for the nontraditional shape.

Otoh, the square concertina always got expressions of interest when I played it for Morris or for contra dancing. Now, it's been retired to reserve status, but still gets out there occasionally, and still interests people.

Other contributors to this thread have made an important point; we are extraordinarily lucky to have all these Herringtons and Morses, Tedrows and Edgleys making intermediate instruments. From the ones I've played and the ones I've read about, you can't go wrong with any of them. In what other area of life can you buy a product made by someone with fanatical devotion to it, and to making the customer happy? These guys collectively have opened up the concertina world to many who would not otherwise be part of it.

Is that how you bought your first car? And did you mail-order it?

Hmm, and where's the concertina equivalent of Road & Track magazine's comparison tests... aside from this Topic?

I bought my first car because it had wheels and an engine (no brakes to speak of, no windscreen wipers ...).
I bought my first concertina because it was there, and the second (upgrade to a Norman) because it was the first "mid-range" instrument I found: I was very happy with it for three years and didn't need to upgrade for reasons of technical insufficiency of the instrument, but because I was after that all elusive "concertina" sound ...

Yes, I undrstand. That is what is reducing my willingness to buy from U.K. these days. However, we should not exclude Canadian Frank Edgley because the exchange rate between the U.S. dollar and the Canadian one is actually pretty good. At the moment:
1.00 USD = 1.34473 CAD

Right now, Edgley is building me an A/E Anglo.

Next, I'm going to comission Tedrow to build me a custom 39 button C/G Anglo.

- Alex

Thanks everybody for all the great input so far!


I'll probably try that then, especially given the recommendations given by others. One review on this site says it's a bit brash and maybe not as suited for singing. Perhaps I'll ask if they can tune one a bit mellower? Or maybe just a baffle would work, then I could always convert it back.

The pictures on the Button Box site make the Céilí look like a fairly bright reddish color, but a review on this site makes it look like a darker somewhat purplish color -- which is the current look, or can that be customized?


I probably would -- I looked around and don't see anything near California currently. Although I'll be near Washington DC around August 16-24. I've also been thinking of going to Australia...


That's good to hear -- I'd hate to have to keep opening it up to fiddle with reeds, which is what it looks like I'll have to do with my Stagi.


Sounds like the Herrington isn't what I'm looking for, although the "quieter reeds" option may help.


Hm, I hold my hex Stodgy with the sides flat on my knees, which would be the same angle as a square instrument. But having played less than a year, that may change.


That would be a plus.


I'm picky with most things, and I have a pretty good ear for subtle sound variations. I want to really like my instrument, not "make do" with it. That's a bit of a luxury if you look at things practically, but it makes a big difference to me. I don't mind waiting, so I'm sure I'll try out a few and keep my eyes open.


It would be nice to have an instrument that's made for me especially.


True, I'll add him to the list, especially since Helen mentioned hers was "mellow." Do you happen to know what he charges for a stock 30-button Anglo with wooden ends? I'll probably end up contacting the various makers after I get a bit more information. Have you compared the sound of the Edgleys to the others, and if so, in what ways do you find it different?

Any other opinions from people who have played more than one of these models (or others in the price range) are welcome. Maybe there hasn't been a lot of head-to-head comparisons of these models because most people seem to have pretty similar opinions of the quality. The differences seem to be more personal and subtle.

Spot on! Computer magazines like to do these tests by lining up similar machines and testing their relative speeds, but you put together a modern PC with a screwdriver. Not so a concertina.

Personally I think you'd feel happy with any of the current crop of makers (including Geuns, Marcus and Norman from outside the US), but I applaud your desire to try a few first. It really is the best way to decide.

Right now we are in a vintage period for mid-range anglos. It's quite exciting, actually.

Chris

I've been attending the NHICS for a number of years and play a Dipper and a Jeffries myself. There and at other events I have had the chance to try the Herrington, the Tedrow and the Morse -- but not an Edgley yet. I second Ken's recommendation that nothing beats trying them out in person. But since you have asked us, here's my two cents worth.

I have been very impressed with the Morse Ceili in all aspects but one -- weight. It is so light, it doesn't want to stay put. For someone who plays standing up such as in Morris groups, this may be no problem. For me sitting down, I'd like a bit more heft to keep it in place so that I don't have to hold it in place with one arm -- that's a bit tiring. The lightness of the production models is really surprising, because the pre-production prototypes brought to NHICS and the NE Squeeze-In over several years were more along the weight of a traditional concertina or slightly heavier. Tone on the Morse is fine and the action is nice and light. It's design and construction are very much in the traditional concertina vein with the accordion reeds being the only non-standard item -- but all four choices in this thread have had to make that same compromise for price's sake.

As others have echoed, I find the Herrington very heavy -- and the action is too. Note that my test drive of the Herrington is several years old and he may have made major improvements there. But based on my direct experience, not a top choice for me.

Bob Tedrow has been very prolific in producing concertinas and has made wonderful strides. I'm very impressed with the rich sound - especially when playing chords -- of his latest models (March 2004). He has done a very good job of getting concertina sound out of accordion reeds. The bellows design is a bit soft for me, but others may not be put off by that -- it's again just a matter of what you are used to. As to action, his newer models with bushed buttons are very nice and are preferrable. The older, unbushed models handle much like an unbushed Lachenal and are not as enjoyable to play. One real plus with Bob is that he is always willing to work with a buyer to produce what they want. You might want to give him a call.

So the current Tedrow would be my first recomendation to you with the Morse a very close second. Good luck -- whatever you choose.

I OWN A NORMAN CONCERTINA PURCHASED FROM HOBGOBLIN MUSIC USA. I'VE BEEN PLEASED WITH THIS INSTRUMENT OVERALL. THE SOUND AND ACTION ARE TO MY LIKING. THIS PARTICULAR CONCERTINA IS NAMED THE "ASHDOWN" MODEL AND SELLS FOR $1475. IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME ONE TEDROW WAS SELLING FOR $1675. I KNOW ITS THE SAME BECAUSE I E-MAILED NORMAN IN ENGLAND AND HE TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE BOTH HIS "STANDARD" MODEL!

HAPPY HUNTING!

I had wondered who was getting the other A/E...

If you would like to look at Frank Edgley's web site it is at:

www.concertinas.ca

You can email him from the site and ask him about prices. He responds very quickly and will work with you to assure you get what you want.

You could tell him you are just querying to get an idea and not feel obligated to buy until you are ready.

Helen

I don't know the websites of the other makers, but many advertise on this website.

Hey, folks! Don't forget that there are other parts to Concertina.net, besides the Forums. E.g., the links page, where you'll find links to the various makers, and more.

I have owned a Tedrow for a couple of years now and have been very happy with it. Fast, loud and nice looking - burled maple with ebony trim. The only North American instrument I have had an opportunity to compare it with was an older Herrington which was heavier and slower. Bob is great to work with and will do what you want.

Mark