I am hoping this topic may create a debate which may help us all to progress with our playing.
We are all busy and most of us wish to progress and the only way to progress is by practicing.Many of us do this in various ways and most of us have to snatch practice time within a heavy lifestyle.I will therefore run through my ideas on this subject in general and many things I suspect you will not agree with.
I consider long practice sessions a complete waste of time.I do not think the brain is capable of remembering vaste quantities of information in one go.I think that numerous short spells are the answer,Fifteen or twenty minute sessions a break of at least an hour and then back for another twenty minutes etc. I am not talking here about playing music you know how to play, but new tunes ,scales etc
I do not think playing over tunes you know how to play will make you progress,unless you are say working on speed or ornamentation etc.An evening session of music you know is fun, but not practice, it will not make you a better player,you are only refreshing your brain with what you already know.In the same way I do not consider a weekend smash your mind teach in, will make you a better player.What it will do is teach you techniques for you to go home and practice.
Joining a band of musicians ,will push you foreward at a fast rate.New tunes have to be learnt,new skills like speed concentration, sound levels when playing accoustically etc.Your time is completely spent on intense learning and you progress.I know many of you are in very small communities so this is a problem but many of the members on this site have suggested music and sites for you to hear and play along with.New tunes create different finger patterns some of which repeat in other tunes so again a useful way to progress.
These are my suggestions,what are yours.
Al

I would think that booking yourself as a solo performer would have the same positive practice effect as joining a band -- getting ready for a performance by making decisions about how to ornament this or emphasize that.

I'm speaking from experience here, oh yes I am.

Just my two pence worth.

Haven't been playing my concertina.

With the piano accordion. I practice scales with both hands up two octaves in three keys. I practice chord inversions up 2 octaves for all the inversions for 3 keys. I practice some awful exercises and some speed drills.

Then I treat myself to learning a new song or two. I hate the first part but love the songs.

Haven't gone back and replayed old songs. Could, don't.

Just the way my pa teacher has taught me.

Helen

I totally disagree. I will quite often spend an hour+ playing a new tune over and over and over... While it is true that whilst doing this I often find myself slipping into "the zone" where time passes at lightly speed, it is not only my brain that I am training, but also my "muscle memory".


But it will help you retain what you already have. I very much believe that in music "if you don't use it, you lose it".

Basically I think it comes down to "horses for courses". Find what works best for you, and stick with it. For me that means long practice session when I can, shorter ones when I can't, single tune sessions, multiple tune sessions, and sometimes just playing whatever tune I fancy at that particular moment in time.

No time with your concertina is ever wasted time

Just a few random neurons firing,
Morgana

Practice with a specific purpose in mind. Everything else is just details and personal preference, IMHO.

I practiced classical guitar for many years, i.e., always using stereotyped fingering. I try to practice concertina so that I can change fingerings and ornaments on the fly and not always play passages basically the same way. So I can play like Alan Day, in other words. Learning how to practice with this specific purpose hasn't always been easy.

I think it's kind of funny how, like children, we'll manage to find ways to justify doing what we really WANT to do. I always make my practice 'plan,' then, I trash it and play what I want...which usually is accompaniment for singing.

So, nothing really wrong with that, I guess....it's not like someone has ordered me to play all one type and only that.

I try to cover these categories of practice:

1. Tunes for finger dexterity -- Irish/Celtic/Trad...etc.
While I am not really steeped in Celtic music, I do try to add to my 'stash' of tunes that I know by heart. For me, this is mostly just for my fingers....don't expect to be much of a real player in that category.

2. Nice instrumental pieces arranged (by other people) for the English concertina --- may or may not have a vocal part. Tends to be Victorian-era, old stuff.

3. MY stuff. What I've written or am working on. Usually has a vocal part.

4. Whatever else really calls my attention...i.e., a modern ballad (lately, it's 'Have I Told You Lately,' by Van Morrison) -- maybe something from the Classical Fake Book or some other book or pile of music that I have.

>These are my suggestions,what are yours.

For me, sometimes long practice sessions work the best, sometimes shorter ones. Depends on my concentration, which tends to be a problem; it's easy to zone out.

Playing along with CDs is a necessary part of every practice. Sometimes, I learn a tune well -- I think -- but it falls apart when playing with others. So when I learn it, I spend some time playing along with a recording, if I have it.

I'd like to do more with scales, but not being formally trained, I really don't know how,other than the simpliest ones. I'd like to see a scale practice page for Anglos.

Hardest for me is practicing for Morris performances; getting the speed right is very hard when you can't see the dancers. I learn the tunes fine, but have to spend some serious time practicing with real, live dancers doing their unpredictbable thing.

Depends on the day.  My usual concertina time is after the kids have gone to bed at 7:30 ish.  Some days I warm up for a while with tunes I know and then work on learning different techniques and tunes (Alan, your tutor has been most helpful in this!).  Other days I pick up the box and my brain dissolves. . . I get in the zone . . . close my eyes and wake up 2 hours later.  It seems that both are useful to me; focusing helps me progress with the concertina, zoning out is like a moving meditation and keeps me sane (sort of )

Having a teacher (either live or on CD) has been the most helpful for me, especially because I'm still a beginner.    New ideas and tunes really get me moving.


I've found the best way is to be a dancer. When the tunes get into my bones it's easier to play them for others. Of course I NEVER learn the tunes for my favorite dances, otherwise I'd be playing instead of dancing!

When starting this discussion,what I had in mind as far as short spell practicing are the really awkward tunes and some with chords possibly that when you can play them lift you on to a different level.As many of you know I play by ear and a tune learnt with full chords on an anglo incorporates, the tune,the chord,the direction and loss of air which could mean the same chord in the opposite direction,or ornamentation to drag in air for that chord.All these things have to be stored in my memory.I may have originally taken all the information off written music but eventually I prefer to remember it.This is the same for all by ear players.For new music and new chords this is mind blowing and has to be worked on a bit at a time.Make a mistake and back to the start again.It is a project,but what a feeling when you have it.I do not disagree with Morgana I spend hours on a tune and picking up new tunes at sessions etc but it is the mind blowing stuff that you put to one side that moves you foreward.(I have a lot put to one side).
I agree with you Lisa as far as dancing the music ,I play a lot of French and Breton dance music and being a dancer, it certainly helps for speed and feel of the dance and that you can obtain the lift of playing for dancing.
Al

I find that practicing is something you just do don't focus on how much time you spend or when you do it just do it am I making any sense? If you don't like to practice do something you like to do at the same time like I watch TV while practice it does not distract me but it might distract someone else if you can't multi function as they say but I am good at doning that. (Be careful now one else is trying to watch at the same time other wise it could be dangorous to you or your instrument.) it is all good

I play my EC along with the radio - usually the jazz station (WBGO) and occasionally the oldies station (WCBS). They choose the tunes, they choose the key, they choose the tempo. If it's a piece I know, I do my best to play the melody along with them. If I don't know the piece, or if it's too fast or in too difficult a key, I improvise harmonies. I've been doing this for several years and find I am making slow but steady progress with my playing. My goal is to become a good enough concertinist to sit in on local jazz sessions.

Do you play the trumpet bits?
Smashing Doug something I have always wanted to do.
I cheat with a BpF
Al

>I've found the best way is to be a dancer.
> When the tunes get into my bones it's
> easier to play them for others.

Absolutely. But not an option at my age and with my aching joints. Been playing for Morris for about 5 years, and it's an endless challenge, learning to watch the dancers and adjust.

And I have a C trumpet, so I don't have to transpose when I (try to) read fiddle music.

Perhaps walking the dance figures in time to the music?? My friend Roger, the amazing Morris Man who taught everyone in this area to dance, must be pushing 80 (if he's not here yet). I believe that is what he does now.

Though not entirely exclusive, there are two basic kinds of practice. One concentrates on increasing and improving one’s repertoire. Ironically, it is often the experienced player who neglects the second sort – increasing the breadth of one’s musicianship and mastery of the instrument.

This would mean increasing and improving facility on the instrument to include all that the instrument itself in capable of, including multiple genres. In addition, if one can’t play by ear, it would be good to practice that. There in no pride to be taken by not being able to read music either. I find it more meaningful to try playing melodies in the bass and harmonizing in the treble (or anything else that I’m particularly bad at) than learning a new song or polishing an old one. Having said all of this, I must confess that I don’t often follow this advice, but when I do, my practice is clearly more “meaningful.”

As far as time goes, more time playing per day is better. I don’t enjoy interruptions, but accept them graciously for the most part. And with time per day held constant, I don’t think there is much difference in terms of making progress between many short sessions and few long ones. Practicing what you don’t do well is really helpful.

Sure, but a bit more punctuation wouldn't hurt.

I agree with Alan. Shortly after starting to learn the concertina I started a band. A bit premature you may think! The prereq for being in the band was that you must *not* be able to play your instrument. The line up is concertina, harp (now there is a challenge...), flute/whistle and guitar.

We are called "Hell Combes" because we used to live in a place called Elcombes.

To begin with we were pretty dreadful but now, 18 months later, we actually enjoy listening to ourselves. We haven't yet played in public (apart from with friends, including playing carols at a get together on Christmas day).

At the moment we are working on putting together an imaginary gig. We've gone back to some of our early, simple tunes and are learning them by heart and polishing them up to be able to play about an hours worth of music with not many mistakes.

We all agree that the band has been the biggest single influence in improving our playing. We've also all found that it's one of the most fun things we do.

Lawrence

The next step up Lawrence is to record yourself and really closely listen.That really depressed me but I learnt a hell of a lot from the experiance.
Al

Absolutely Alan!

I was recorded playing concertina yesterday -- first time.

I have serious rhythm issues. I knew I had them, but I didn't know they were that bad! Definitely gives me something to work on!

Actually, it's the trumpet and piano players I have the most trouble with. I'm OK with the notes on the slower stuff but the phrasing eludes me. I must have been a clarinet or saxophone player in a previous life. My favorite jazz musicians to play along with are Sidney Bechet, Acker Bilk, Gene Ammons and Hank Crawford. I also love to "accompany" female singers like Ella Fitzgerald, Cassandra Wilson and Jane Monheit.


I have a friend who plays a C Melody saxophone for the same reason. It has a lovely sound!

It does. I have one of those, too... BUT
... there's a tiny inscription on it that says, "Low Pitch".

It's really in B! (That's H for the Europeans who think B means Bb. )
I didn't realize that until I got it home. Luckily, I didn't pay a lot for it.

Jim,

This would be *very* unusual. Low pitch on saxophones almost always refers to A=440 as opposed to A=456. Most modern horns are pitched to 440 without mention of the L. Some saxophones are marked A, meaning American because they were the odd guys for a while. A meant A=440 too. A lot of vintage horns without the L are pitched to 456. A c-melody with the L on it is usually a sought after horn because when c-molodies were popular, may were pitched too high.

You may need to push the mouthpiece further on. Or you may have a faulty neck or otherwise be out of adjustment. Could also be your embouchure.

You could find out for sure by posting on saxontheweb.net where there are many friendly and knowledgeable posters. One problem there is that knowledgeable and not knowledgeable posters can be difficult to suss out.

Good luck,

Kurt

Then unusual it is. With the mouthpiece pushed all the way on, its A is precisely in tune with the Ab on my A440 concertinas.


It does not just say "L". It really says, in small block roman letters, "LOW PITCH". Is that also unusual?

It's already on all the way.Seems to me that it would take a serious maladjustment to make a full half-step difference. Also, I think it would make the instrument out of tune with itself, especially at the top of the scale. Am I wrong?I have no trouble with my soprano (also -- and really -- in C). Could the bigger mouthpiece really account for a consistent half-step? Or could an old, ratty reed? (I really need to get some new reeds.) I personally doubt it.


Thanks. I should try that.


A problem I've experienced elsewhere.