How did you get your first concertina? What kind was it? This is not a survey; anecdotes welcome.

Ah well, Stephen,

I went to one of my now favorite festivals in May and heard someone playing a concertina as part of a group. Now I know that she was playing an English, but I didn't know that then. I bought an anglo from Elderly Music because I could afford it and wasn't sure if I was going to like concertina or not. (This was done through the mail.) I had picked one up before, but it was very squeaky awful sounding and had quickly put it down.

Fell in love with it. 20 button and only wished it had a C#. I know people sometimes look down their noses at Stagi concertinas but it served me well.

Helen

Nice thread.

Stephen, I saw my first concertina while playing a gig at a local pub. I was playing a 40+ pound hammer dulcimer at the time, and the thought of a small 3 pound instrument that didn't have to be tuned was, well --- irresistable. Not too long after, I asked the same concertina-owning gentleman where to find one of those neat contraptions? He put me in touch with Mo Turcotte in north Georgia. Mo happened to be an early dealer for Suttner and a couple of weeks later I was the proud owner of a Suttner Linota model anglo. The inital cash commitment was heavy, but I have never regretted it.

The only down side to this story is that the dulcimer now spends too much time in its case -- unplayed.

My FIRST first concertina was one of those lovely little German scholers that sound pretty crappy. This was in 1993. I wanted it to learn to play morris tunes on, not considering that the nearest team was a 90-minute drive away -- through some pretty seedy parts of Philadelphia.

Got it from House of Musical Traditions in Maryland (and later lived 10 minutes away from that wonderful shop).

Sold it back after about a year, no regrets. Guess I wasn't ready!

My first concertina is still sitting in Australia, waiting to be shipped to me. I've bought it from Malcolm Clapp. Problem is, he's at the National Folk Festival in Canberra (which sounds like a fantastic event!). He's going to ship it as soon as he gets back. I got really lucky with this, because he was about to take it to the festival to try and sell it there when I wrote to him, but I told him just in time that I wanted it, so he didn't take it along. Whew!

It's a 48-button steel-reeded Lachenal, restored by Malcolm himself. Currently I'm using a borrowed Bastari Hey, at least I can make some tunes. Can't wait to get that upgrade, though!


Steven

PS: Rhomylly, you used to live in Philadelphia? That's where I live now (actually in the suburbs, in Ambler). Where were you? I take it you don't live here any more...

By the way, Stephen, you asked the question, but you didn't tell us about YOUR first! C'mon, spill it!


Steven

A couple of years ago I was going through an active "searching for the right instrument" phase. I tried a lot of things, but none of them were right. I was in the habit of visiting all the music stores regularly to play with the "toys". One time I went in to a place that had some cheap concertina accordions and concertinas. One which I really liked was a Stagi mini-18 button English. I'd never considered playing a squeezebox, never really even held one. This had something I really liked though. It was the simple, plaintive voice, the way it could be modulated, the orientation towards single melody, but chords could be done when needed. I didn't get it that day, but it gnawed at me all week and the next Saturday I was down there the minute they opened, buying it. I knew it was the right thing when I played it all the rest of the day until darkness. Now that Stagi was a piece of crap (literally, sticky buttons, out of tune, didn't last very long) but it was my first one and I sure had a lot of fun playing it. A few months later I got a Morse Albion. I loved to make up little ditties on it, and some friends accused me of channelling dead Irish sailors or something like that (though really I think I was making more Scottish-ish noises). Anyhow I decided if they thought I was sounding Irish I might just learn the real thing, so that's how I got into Irish music. One more important piece of the story. I picked up a humble Lachenal mahogeny Anglo a couple months after that to "play with" because I felt some kind of duty to understand both sides of the tape. But it was at the NE Squeeze-In last year where I watched and listened a bunch to Frank Edgley that got me really inspired. The very next week I pretty much switched all my energy to the Anglo and haven't really touched the English's since. Now, those were my first concertinas. No doubt there are more in my future (like maybe a nice big fat Dipper in my dreams ) but those are how I started.

Tom Lawrence

For more years than I can remember (probably something like 20) I thought about buying an English concertina. I bought instruction books. I bought recordings. I taught myself to play many of the tunes on Alistair Anderson's Concertina Workshop LP on the mandolin. I was convinced it was the right instrument for me - if I could play it - but I doubted that I could. It was too big an investment for an experiment that would probably fail.

Then one day I came across the Button Box URL, looked at their web page, and saw that they rented instruments! I called the same day and arranged to rent a Stagi. Three days later I was kicking myself for waiting far far too long to try an English concertina. I was playing a C major scale within minutes and improvising harmonies in the key of G by the end of the day. That was almost five years ago. I still have the Stagi. I also have a Morse and a Wheatstone. All three are 48 button treble English concertinas. I was right all along. It really is the right instrument for me.

Fair enough. I didn’t want to both choose the topic and set the pattern.

I never wanted to play a squeezebox. In the U.S., my generation’s exposure to them was largely formed by the Ted Mack Amateur Hour, a TV show where one would see polka players and teenage girls playing “Lady of Spain.” It’s like that current U.S. advertisement where a young Jimi Hendrix narrowly chooses an electric guitar over an accordion. As the soundtrack plays “Purple Haze” on the accordion, the caption reads “Whew, that was close.”

What changed? I don’t know; I’ve been interested in folk music of the U.K. and Ireland since I heard Silly Wizard, Bothy Band, Renbourne, Stivell, et al. in the early ‘80’s. As for the concertina, I can only speculate that I was struck by a meteor and regained consciousness wanting one.

I started investigating and monitoring C.net. At first, I wanted an Anglo, then decided on an English. Cheap, so I could gauge my real interest. Before I could get one, a normally $230 Anglo came on ebay for $45 because of a silent reed, one of those JL Dyer Chinese units. I got it, fixed the problem within 15 minutes, and set off. Problems are gradually developing with sticky buttons and buzzing reeds, so that my repertoire tends to avoid pieces that cause problems. Martin Wynne’s #2 sounds like a train wreck, but most pieces are fine.

I’ve absolutely loved playing the Anglo, in the Irish style and otherwise. I’m looking forward to detouring from a week in Vermont this summer to the Button Box and upgrading. But first, I’m still curious about the English. I’m awaiting delivery of a Jackie, so what will it be this summer? A Ceili, an Albion, or a Hayden duet? A (gasp) Wheatstone? Time will tell.

Come on, you others. How about you duet players and those of you who grew up in the tradition? Don't leave this thread to us relative newbies.

The first concertina I ever held was a restored Jeffries. I was able to get a few little tunes out of it right away. That got me hooked on the squeezebox sound. I then borrowed a D/G Pokerwork melodeon that was WAY too heavy. The first concertina I owned was a 20 button Stagi. I did O.K. with it but soon upgraded to the Herrington that I'm still playing.

I've tried lots of instruments; flute, pennywhistle,xylophone,piano,violin and I loved them all but never mastered them. The concertina is the only instrument that has ever loved me back!

It's the only instrument I've ever found that instead of having to force myself to practice, I have to force myself to stop practicing.

I loved that phrase too. Perhaps it's because we're a concertina site that it resonates so strongly with others, but I could never escape fighting "against" the classical guitar, and losing.

>How did you get your first concertina? What kind was it?

A no-name German 20 button, purchased from a yard sale in Michigan. It was in in terrible condition, with a badly leaking bellows, but someone gave me a newish Italian super-low end box with useless reeds. Amazingly, the bellows were the right size for the older one. Attached the new bellows to the old concertina, and had a hybrid that worked, more or less, even if it sounded like geese about to be road kill.

That held me until my Herrington, and beyond.

Ab/Eb Jeffries in need of restoration. Paid $300 as I recall...later sold to a player/restorer who put it right.

Jeff

In 1984 I went to a solo concert by Alistair Anderson in Leesburg, Virginia. I was totally captivated by his playing. It was the first time I had seen a concertina up close or really paid it any attention.

I talked to Alistair after the show: "Where can I get one??" He suggested I go see Fred Oster at Vintage Instruments in Philadelphia.

A few weeks later I had a business trip to Philadelphia and snuck off for part of an afternoon. Fred had a bunch of concertinas sitting around but only one in playable condition -- a rosewood Lachenal English, late 1920s, very lightly used.

I went home, gave the "Honey, can I spend $700?" speech, and the next weekend we drove up to Philly and bought it.

I attended a Michael Cooney concert in 1978 and became fascinated with his English concertina. Michael was recording on Front Hall Records, and soon I was perusing the Andy's Front Hall catalog. By September of 1978, Andy's Front Hall had happily sold me a Bastari tenor.

After about a month of struggle, I began committing random acts of music, and unforeseen events began to happen. In six months, I was squeezing and dancing with the Minnesota Traditional Morris. In a year, I was playing in contra dance bands, I had a new circle of friends, and I began meeting and learning from all kinds of squeezers and other traditional players, and singers.

I think I spent almost as much time repairing that Bastari as playing it. Buttons stuck, springs broke, and reeds crept out of tune. Within two years I had replaced the bellows. Within three years, I was outplaying the instrument, so I sold it and started squeezing a metal ended Lachenal.

Twenty six years later, my main squeeze is a Wheatstone extended treble, supplemented by a menagerie of other squeezables and pickables. I don't miss the Bastari, but it gave me a lot of enjoyment and opened a lot of doors.

I was having terrible dental trouble due to bad tuba technique and decided it was a valid excuse for learning to play another instrument... saw a 120-bass piano accordion in reasonable condition in a pawn shop for a little over £100 and set off on that; as I already played piano it was a case of making sense of the left hand.

That led me to playing for Morris, which in turn made me realise pretty quickly that the PA was too heavy for me to play for long periods. But I had already fallen in love with the idea of air-powered keyboard instruments, and I set off to the Accordion Centre in Birmingham, having investigated concertinas, thinking that the English would make the most sense to my brain. It didn't, and I still have real trouble with the practicalities of the instrument, even though, in concept, it seems so logical. But while I was there I picked up a Hohner-badged Stagi 30-key anglo which made a lot more sense, so I took that away. I played it pretty hard, and after about six months it was really showing the strain, and I upgraded to a Norman - but I would agree with what others have already said, in that I don't regret starting on the cheaper instrument at all.

My very first concertina was a cheap (and nasty) 20 button anglo Chinese job that was virtually unplayable. Later on, when I had started work and had enough money, I went to Crabb Concertinas in the Liverpool Road, Islington (this was the late seventies). The only concertina they had for sale was a restored 48 button Lachenal, which I purchased for the sum of £216. This I still have and is my only 'tina, and was the first English concertina that I had seen at that time.

At around the same time I bought my first melodeon. I went to an accordion dealer in Highbury (N. London) and asked for a melodeon. They didn't know what I meant and I had to point out a pokerwork Hohner from a catalogue. When it turned up it had no backstraps and was tuned in D/A. This I only discovered later, when I joined the (now defunct) Wheatsheaf MM, and had to buy a G/D from the folk shop at Cecil Sharpe House to be able to play for the morris. I am still playing the same box and even play the D/A on occasion. I must have had more money than sense at the time as I bought a 48 bass Parrott PA which I still can't play properly.

My first squeezeboxes were 2-row button accordions that I played mainly for Morris - and while I found concertinas laterally interesting - they didn't quite jump out and bite me until I met Alistair Anderson.

But where to get a concertina in the late 1970's (in Boston MA)? Through the Music Emporium I connected with a banjo collector who was eager to trade a baritone Lachenal English (basic model with colored bone buttons) for my Fairbanks "Electric"... I know, I was pretty smitten... not to mention dumb. A few years later I ended up selling the Lachenal for a Wheatstone Hayden duet - a great box - which I still play.

Not quite the end of the story however. A few years after getting my Hayden Jim Bowman let me know that he had finally chased down and bought my Fairbanks (I hadn't known he coveted it - but then again, he didn't have a concertina to trade) to add to his collection. I was pretty chagrined to discover that my banjo wound up being one of the top feature instruments at the Smithsonian Museum!

Steven, I was in Newark, Delaware at that time. Now I'm in Missouri

I started out as a woodwind player – mainly saxophone and oboe. Like many musicians, I didn’t see much of the non-musical world around me and when I met someone new would ask, “what do you play?” since I rarely met people who didn’t play something. Then, as an Air Force musician, I lived in Spain for two years and got interested in Spain, history and lots of other stuff including people who didn’t play music.

When I returned to the States I sold all of my instruments (quit music with a vengeance!) and got on with other things. After a year or so I found an unsold alto recorder. Then bought another one. Then a dulcimer. Then a banjo. A guitar. A harmonica. An autoharp. A hammered dulcimer. A piano. I just couldn’t fill this hole in my life. About seven years after I’d given it all up, I subscribed to Mugwump’s magazine with an eye toward getting something utterly fantastic like a glass harmonica or a hurdy gurdy. That’s where I started eyeing concertinas.

I did some soul searching to get a clear idea what I wanted and came up with notions like something I could sing with and would support my tin ear. Something no one else played so I wouldn’t beat myself up when I couldn’t play as well as they did. Something that didn’t allow for a teacher (no pressure). I had always admired people who could play from a fake book and I wanted something that could play any chord and any melody in any key.

Shortly after that I found myself in London pouring over concertinas at Crabb’s shop. A crane duet was what I wanted. It met all my requirements. Several months later I sent Mr. Crabb some money and several months after that (May 11, 1978 to be exact) a 55 key Lachenal Triumph arrived. I’ve logged all of my concertina playing on only two concertinas. I traded that first one in on my current 59 key Crabb crane. I don’t know what I’d do without it.

More recently I bought a saxophone, but you didn’t ask about that.

After several years with cheap beginner instruments, I bought my fist good concertina in 1979 or 1980 in Glasgow. I was walking doen a street and passed a music shop which had a metal ended Wheastone in the window. the only problem was - it was a Wednesday afternoon, which in those days in Glasgow was early closing day and the shop was shut. I got down there early the next morning to buy it. It was a wonderful instrument even though it was in old pitch.

I only sold it some time after buying a Lachenal Edeophone (from Malcolm Clapp before he emigrated to Australia)

- John Wild

A bit over a year ago, my wife suggested I look at concertinas (synthesizers not generally being welcome at Irish sessions) as an instrument.

And I spent a fair bit of time in a loop that went something like this:

A 20 button Stagi is around $300
But I'd really want 30 buttons, from what I've read
So now we're at $750 or so
But the Stagi isn't going to hold its value
But you can get a 20 button vintage C/G for around the same price
But I'd really want 30 buttons, how can I not play in D?
I could get a new C/G 30 button for $1800 or so
Why am I spending $1800 on an instrument I don't even know I'll like to play?

And around and around the loop went.

I ended up getting a 20 button G/D Lachenal from Chris Algar, as that would keep its value if I didn't take to it, and it would let me play in all the keys I wanted.

Less than six months later, I ordered a custom G/D from Bob Tedrow (the path that took me from a standard G/D to the "Drop D" configuration is another story in and of itself).

--Dave

A few years ago I saw Steve Gillete and Cindy Mangsen in concert at the Bull Run in central Massachusetts. Then at one point Cindy Mangsen pulled out this little box, and wonderful sounds came from it. It was an English concertina, but all I knew at the time was that it was a concertina. I started looking around on the Web, and Lo and Behold! The Button Box was only 50 miles from home! I ventured out, Doug let me play around with the instruments they had, and I came home with 48 treble (late model) Wheatstone. I never did tell my wife what it cost.
Now I've since gotten a Lachenal Excelsior 48 treble. I've said I was going to sell the Wheatsone, but it is still there and I suppose it will stay with me awhile longer. And somehow I also got a piano accordion. I have pictures of all three instruments in my office - my computer screen background is the Lachenal.
The other thing is I went 3 years before meeting another concertina player. That was the great thing at the Northeast Squeeze In - being around enough English players (and 1 duet) to have a Concertina Band!

Jay

Wow, what a rough swap, makes me glad to have a Lachenal baritone English _and_ a Fairbanks "Electric," both classics in their own way!

Hm, I'll have to look at the sales receipt from the Button Box to see if it was 2 -- or 3-- years ago that I bought the concertina.

I went there to look for a new piano-accordion, since I was really tired of the weight of the big old one that I have, that left bruises on my legs and wrecked my back, usually.

I think I'd kind of had it in mind to see about concertinas, too. But, once I'd tried one and really liked the sound -- and the light weight of it -- I ordered one!

Later, I did go and get a new piano-accordion, a smaller one, from Accordion Connection in New Hampshire.

I have to admit, though, I spend more time with my concertina...shall have to even that up, maybe, and play the PA more.

Yes yes Wendy,

Play the piano accordion today.

Oh okay you can wait until tomorrow.

Helen

My first, and still my favourite concertina is 100 years old this year, its a metal ended Wheatstone Aeola 48 key English treble. I liberated it from a wardrobe at my parents having been told by my mother that it was there and that she could not make any sense of the instrument. It had obviously been well played, and was in very poor condition.

It transpired that it, and a 12 key miniature had belonged to my great uncle (Harry Cuttings) who had played and taught concertina before WWI. He was gassed and bady wounded, so much so that he was re-patriated, but that is another story. He was too frail to teach but still played for his own amusement. He used to take the miniature around with him and play bird calls and popular songs to amuse the children on trams as he travelled around his area of Sheffield.

Once the treble was put into playing condition (not by me) I started to learn and got hooked by both the sound and the challenge. I later restored the miniature and then purchased a Baritone and a G Bass which I use for part and band play. My own daughter learned to play on Harry's Aeola. Harry loved children, he and Annie never had any, and I think he might have appreciated the thought of his great, great niece playing his instruments.

Dave

About 18 years ago I started ogling a cheap Stagi Anglo in a pawnshop window. My wife passed on the information to my co-workers and when I left that job they bought me the Stagi as a going away present. I noodled around on the Stagi AG for a couple of years but found it too much sucking and blowing for my taste.

I used to regularly attend the Reston folk club in northern Virginia in those days and we used to get folk artists stopping by in Washington, D.C. to come out and have dinner with us in a private room at a local restaurant. One week Alistar Anderson came out for dinner and we passed the hat for him to play. I sat at a table with Alistar and after we ate talked him into letting me play one of his English concertinas - a metal ended Aeola treble as I recall.

Afterwards I went to The House of Musical Traditions nearby and bought a tenor Stagi. (I traded in the Anglo and also sold a banjo to pay for it) Since I played mandolin and tenor banjo the chromatic nature of the English Concertina suited me.

In the past few years I have been playing the Stagi more and stringed instruments less as it is less aggravating to my arthritis. I decided I deserved a break and just purchased a Lachenal New Model circa 1890 extended treble, which was restored by Wim Wakker. I am waiting for it to arrive in the next day or two. Needless to say I can hardly wait. I did like my Stagi however as it was much more playable that several ones just like it I have played.

Hope I will like the Lachenal and that it will spur me to new heights of proficiency.

My "first" is a Stagi bought at Button Box 6 months ago. I actually like it but also am waiting for an Edgely that is on order. The roots of this addiction were planted 61 years ago when our family was going through my grandmother's possessions following her death in 1943 and came across a 20b anglo. I was only 3 years old but I still remember that concertina vividly. My grandmother was raised in Boston, Co Clare, Ireland and came to Chicago at age 20. My aunt says that my grandmother used to play the concertina and dance at the same time--I will settle for just one of those some day. My mother played the fiddle, and I play the piano a bit but have put that aside the last six months for the concertina.

My grandmother's anglo is still around (my cousin in Florida has it) although it is not playable. Last fall, after waiting only 60 years, I finally made the leap into concertina world. It is great. I am now risking humiliation and trying slow, slow sessions. Last night it was at the Green Briar in Brighton (Boston MA), and the leader (Sean) was quite helpful. We went over Jim Ward's jig bar by bar, and in the end it sounded ok with three fiddles, five whistles, and myself on the concertina.

I am eager to get my hands on the Edgely, and appreciate all the great encouragement from the people on this site.

Alan Miller

Alan,

After reading your great story, you deserve all the encouragement I can give from over the ocean

About 53-55 years ago (!) I heard my father's harmonica playing for the first time. He played almost exclusively on sundays and I remember that it was fascinating for me. Very soon I got my own harmonica and I could manage to play rather soon.
After a few years I changed the harmonica for a recorder, but at the age of 14 I stopped playing. At 33 years I became interested in folk music and I learned to play the fiddle and tin whistles an joined a group of friends to play folk together.
It was in that period that I discovered by chance a concertina in a local music shop. I was allowed to give it a try and discovered that I was very similar to the harmonica, so I bought this Hohner (see image) and very soon I used it for playing some tunes together with my friends.
After some years this folk group broke up and I tried to continue on a very low level for my own pleasure and relaxation. For this purpose the concertina is much more suited than a fiddle or tin whistles. After having fun with my Hohner for about 20 years I bought (about two years ago) a Marcus C/G 30b, which is a big improvement in playability and sound, but I still have a weak spot for my red marble Hohner.
After 20 years it needs a lot of Scotch tape to keep the "red marble" veneer in place and my grandchildren were allowed to put stickers on it, but the bellows are still OK!

The Button Box was once a consistent vendor at the Old Songs festival in Altamont NY, and I was fascinated by the instruments they displayed. After several years, I decided to rent a Bastari English before committing myself. I had played (badly) banjo, guitar, mandolin, and other instruments. The mandolin, however, served me well as a prelude to English. After deciding to buy and not finding an instrument at the Button Box, I found my way to Paul Groff -- a talented Anglo player and meticulous technician with respect to repair and restoration. I bought a medium range Lachenal which I still own. Subsequently, I bought an unusual 12-sided original Crabb (late 60's) from Paul. Finally, the Button Box came up with a 50 button Amboyna Aeola which I purchased. I try to play them all, but often find myself falling back on the Lachenal. All of this came relatively late in life, and although I will never be a great musician, it is my soul (sole) instrument, and I know a great deal about the music, the instrument, and its history.

Alan,

You will love your Edgley. I am quite pleased with mine.

What a great story you have.

Good luck.

Helen

In 1980 I was lent a cheap german 20 button Anglo for an evening to see if I wanted to buy it. It was dreadful but I managed to play "The sweet nightingale" on it that evening.
In 1981 I had a personal tragedy when my first wife died. We had often gone to the local folk clubs as audience, so when, after about a year, I decided that I needed to do something to keep me from depression etc. I had the idea that I should force myself to be a perorfmer. Up to this time I would definately describe myself as an introvert and not given to being extrovert at all.
I was determined that I would not just be an unaccompanied singer so, remembering the horrible german Anglo, I bought a 32 button metal ended C/G Lachenal from Marcus Music for £150.
I think it helped that the instrument was mid-range rather than a low-end machine as I started performing in public after 4 months.
The Lachenal is at present waiting for me to make a new handstrap but is still going well.

Robin Madge

Ah, those were the days!

Do you mean one of these Robin? I'm afraid I no longer have my first concertina, but it was much like this one (which my mother bagged for me at an antiques fair). It says "Made in Germany" on one end and "Rosetti Rambler" and "Foreign" on the other.
I managed to stick with this for about three months before succombing to the need for something better, and bought a C/G Norman, because it was the first anglo I encountered in the shops.
Samantha

Alan,

I am near Boston and will get to the Green Briar some day...Probably not until school gets out late in June, as it is a long trip on a work night for me. Keep it up, perhaps see you then!

By the way, my first concertina is the red one pictured in This article on Concertina.net. I don't play it much now and probably should sell it and a few other old instruments! I did play it in a folk club once, even though it is out of tune.

Quote Samantha "Do you mean one of these Robin?"

Yes that's the sort, although the one I was lent was predominantly green. It's the fake wood grain that really make you wonder about the maker's decorative taste.

Robin Madge

Responding to Helen, Henk & Ken:

Helen: I am looking forward to the Edgely which should be here soon. But I must admit that I like the Stagi also. It has become more responsive (or is that the fact I am improving?), and it sounds generally ok, although the upper notes can be shrill. Two problems I have are: 1) a small air leak that really doesn't affect playing; and 2) there is a difference in the sound of the same note played on the same key. For example, the A on the C row is much louder and fuller than the A on the G row. I know it is not a push/pull issue because both are on the draw. Overall I have been happy with the Stagi, but I am very anxious to get the Edgely.

Henk: Once again you offer valuable encouragement. Some day I hope to play a tune with you across the ocean. Do you ever get to Ireland. I am going to be spending a bit time there (on occasion) in Kinvara, County Galway. By the way, after listening to your recording of "Boys of Bluehill" I would never accept that you are playing the concertina at a "low level." I assume that you meant that you couldn't spend as much time as you wanted. You could have your own session with the fiddle, whistle & concertina!

Ken: It would be fun if you could make one of the Boston sessions. I believe that you are well advanced beyond the slow or the slow, slow (beginner) sessions but there is a regular session at the Green Briar at 9 on Mondays. The slow and slow, slow are at 7. There are also many other session venues in the area, some of them being in the suburbs. Do you participate, and if so, where?

Alan Miller

I started on a 20b Stagi that was so bad I would have to stop take it apart and un-stick a button before I could get through a tune. But it was enough that I was hooked. I, like tomlaw90, have to make myself QUIT rather than make myself practice.

Mark