I have a cunning plan....I'm currently putting by £50 a week and hopfully in a year I will be worthy enough (and saved enough) to buy a more expensive better quality concertina.

Is this a good plan? I thought it might be good motivation for me to have a 'reward' if I keep at it and get half decent at playing.

btw. are concertina prices going up or down?

Hi LDT

Sounds like a good plan to me! The time will go fast, so start shopping now!

Yes prices are going up.

Thanks
Leo

There's so much choice...not sure what to choose. (it sounds very shallow but I want a 'pretty' one. lol!)

In about seven or eight months you would be able to afford an Edgley, Tedrow, or Morse. I think Normans are supposed to be good, and they're in this range, too. Sooner than that you would be able to get one of those used, or a new Herrington (are they still building concertinas? They sound like a bargain at US$1500). You'll want to go to a concertina festival or two between now and then to see if you can try out the different builder's instruments. If you order an instrument new, you'll need to order it about 3-4 months in advance.

and up!

I think this one looks rather pretty:

http://www.apjmusic.co.uk/apj_30button_anglo.htm

And the maker used to work for Andrew Norman...

I would probably buy new as I don't like buying secondhand.


what's pushing up the price?

1) High demand for new instruments caused by
2) Scarcity of good vintage ones

Is there a way of 'reserving' one at an existing price for a years time...without having to pay the whole price when you order?
(yes I'm rather nieve about this stuff..the limit of my cyber shopping involves ebay and amazon)

That's a handsome box and by the looks, sounds and price of it a good value. May be prosper.

that's definatly going on my maybe list.


??

I have been corresponding with Harold Herrington this week, and he is indeed still making concertinas, with an 8-10 month waiting period. His web site is out of date however. His current instruments are not quite as pictured on the web-site, (e.g. the square concertina is now fully metal ended rather than having a metal insert) and his prices have increased a bit. Still, if they are as nice to play as reported elsewhere on this forum, they are in the "good value" category. He has a 24 button model which features 4 accidentals located as 6th buttons at the index finger end of each row, plus a 5th accidental under the right pinkie on the inside row. His 24 key, and 30 key square anglos are less expensive than his traditional 30 key. Harold has been very forthcoming and patient!

When I ordered my Céilí (the Morse Anglo brand) I put a small deposit on it, and the price was locked at the then-current rate. I think the prices had gone up by the time I received it (about 3 and a half months later, just in time for Christmas), but my price was still the same. I don't know if a builder would reserve a price for more than their estimated build time, though -- I think most of them expect you to be able to pay once the instrument is completed, however long (or short) that time may be.
But I know Mssrs. Morse, Edgley, and Tedrow are all very pleasant and friendly people, you could see what they would say.

Looks are only part of the equation, remember -- trying the various instruments out is the best way to find what instrument speaks to you best. These are handmade instruments, and each builder puts a bit of their own style into them.

The other alternative is to borrow the money on repayments at £50 per month and buy it now at the lower cost.(this should even out the cost of the loan,but you will have a years worth of concertina playing on a better instrument.
Al

It's important that your instrument is visually appealing, but more important factors are how it sounds and how it plays.

Try to get your hands on as many, and different, Anglos over the next few months as is possible. This will help refine your ideas about what is your "ideal" concertina in a particular price bracket. Towards the end of summer 2009, you might then know what you want, and whether you can afford it in an acceptable timescale.

I did a calculation a couple of years ago , which suggested that vintage Anglos appreciate in value by approx. 10% per annum. Top quality new Anglos seem to appreciate almost as fast. I'd say it's not "what?" is the cause, but "who?". Noel Hill has done so much to raise the profile of Irish music in the last 20+ years that demand is soaking up much of the production of the top makers. This has brought several new makers onto the scene, and C.net members will have personal experience of just how good these new makers really are. Certainly we hear some good reviews on this Forum!

So; I guess that some of your initial frustrations are receding.

Peter.

Yeah..I made a breakthrough. Using the metronome on garageband I've managed to go from playing 75 tempo to 105...my target is 120.
Now I've just got to try and play without mistakes when someone else is in the room.

Hi LDT,

take your time over the next year trying any concertinas that you can. Hobgoblin & The Music Room (not to be confused with Musicroom) normally can be found around bigger folk festivals with some Concertinas available for trying. My opinions of what I wanted changed quite a bit from my first ideas - I ended up with a Norman which I'm delighted with. The process was that I put down a relatively small deposit and then that 'fixed' the price, though I had a wait of about 14 months until it was ready.

At £50 per month you'll have £600 in a year which is probably not enough to make a dramatic step up in quality if buying new. If you can wait 18 months you'll have £900 which is starting to get in the ball park - you'll probably be looking at spending £1000+ .

You could possibly increase your budget by taking advantage of Arts Council England's "Take it Away" scheme. A 9 month interest free loan of up to £2000 to buy musical instruments - Hobgoblin participate in this program.


cheers,

-W

I'll have find a big folk festival to go to


It was £50 a week rather than a month....12x50 is....erm...wait a mo just got to get out my calculator.


oooh, I'll take a look at that.

Try emailing them if you want to find out where they'll be. Sometimes makers like Marcus music turn up as well.


Doh! Sorry about that. At £2600 in a year you'll have a good choice. With the price range you're talking about I wouldn't discount buying a quality used instrument. Chris Algar at Barleycorn would probably be the person to see.

They'll be a few perhaps a lot to look at here. http://www.eatmt.org.uk/melodeons_in_mid_s..._&_more.htm

take your time.

Chas

£50 is my weekly 'disposable income'. the amount I allow my self to spend on 'fun' stuff....didn't get off to a good start having gone to see proms in the park this weekend..I had a look round camden marked and spend £30 on a jacket...naughty me.
I'll start proper next week...promise

Don't keep yourself from having other fun by putting everything away to buy that new concertina, maybe put away half that a week, and have some money to go to a festival or a performance occasionally to see other folks play and get an idea what all is out there. Plus there is always that jacket or hat or music book that appears that you just have to have.

Alan

Don't spend money on clothes trying to keep up with the fashion. If you wait long enough then your current wardrobe becomes 'vintage' and comes back in style. So you aren't a year or two behind the fashion -- you're just a decade ahead.

that is suspiciously accurate...I got a jacket and a hat yesterday. lol!


I got the jacket coz my old one doesn't fit coz I've lost weight....and it is beautiful...if anything its vintage style

anyway back on topic.
I was thinking about my top end of budget for a new concertina in a years time will be £2400. I hope prices don't go up too much.

Being quite the novice I'm open to reccomendations. I'd prefer a new concertina rather than 'vintage'.

Hi, LDT,

At that rate, you might just make it!
I was just looking at Juergen Suttner's site - he's one of the recognised makers of "good", traditionally reeded concertinas - and his low-end model, a 30-button Anglo, now costs 3190 Euros, which works out at 2533 GBP.

If you want to make your mouth water over new concertinas, take a look: http://www.suttnerconcertinas.com/ . Suttner is located here in Germany, but his site is in English. And he has a link to a currency converter - prices look higher in Euros than in GBPs

By the way, he freezes the price at time of ordering (with the proviso that any increase in V.A.T. will be passed on). This is significant, because he has a current delivery time of 48 months (yes, 4 years )! Goodness only knows what his entry model will cost by that time!

Cheers,
John

I might have more if I remember to transfer it to my ISA. Or stick it in a high interest account.


ooh, they are nice. *drool* in four years I'd have a lot more to spend. lol!


quick questions what's the whole Wheatstone or Jefferies thing? Is there a significant difference?

Look here for a description of the Wheatstone/Lachnal/Bastari layout vs. Jeffries. The biggest difference is the right hand third row.
You probably have on your current box (push/pull):
C#/D# A/G G#/Bb C#/D# A/F and on the highest note of the G row B/F#
I think a Jeffries would have:
D#/C# C#/D# G#/G C#/Bb A/D and on the highest note of the G row F#/F. The A on the right is the same A as on the second button on the Lachnal layout, the D is the same D as on the push on the middle button on the G row.
Or something like that, mostly, kinda, sorta.

I think the inclusion of the C# on both push and pull is very useful to those who play in the key of D or A alot -- at least there are a fair number of people who seem to strongly prefer it.

I would guess that the people who prefer Jeffries system are most likely playing Irish style. For chorded 'English' style, that A/G reversal on button 2 is really handy. Having the push A stuck on the end of the top row wouldn't suit me at all.

So we're back to your other question about the style you choose to play in......
Brian

I want to play both (greedy I know) but I don't want to be put in a (squeeze) box style wise. I'm finding playing with chords very difficult and fustrating but then I've only managed to learn a couple of simple songs so I'm not at the level to judge yet. Maybe if I had a different layout it would be easier I don't know. *sigh*

Easiest would be your CD-Player.

No, that's not the solution. Just enjoy what you can play and keep on playing. The rest will follow later.

Sebastian

LDT,
I think this is a very good piece of advice. (Not the bit about the CD player - that was just a joke.)
The fact is, that there have ben anglos with Wheatstone accidentals and anglos with Jeffries accidentals for generations now. If one of them had been really cramping, it would have died out long ago, or you'd notice a distinct difference in the prices for them today.

My 30-k anglo has Wheatstone accidentals, not by choice, but because it was the only thing available in my area at that time. (To be quite honest, I didn't hear about the Wheatstone/Jeffries dichotomy until much later. )
It may be that some of the "twiddly bits" that I now build into my arrangements are influenced by the layout. But on the other hand, if I'd stumbled over a Jeffries, I'd probably have built in different "twiddly bits" that would have matched my basic style just as well.

Like Sebastian says - keep playing, and see what happens! It's early days yet

Cheers,
John